CIA tortured suspects to 'the point of death': report

The inhumanity in this thread is saddening.
An eye for an eye only succeeds in making everyone blind.

So much for the moral high ground.
SMH.

originally posted by: aorAki
The inhumanity in this thread is saddening.

No kidding....

People excusing this with false equivalency...
HORRORS Of ISIS: Children Buried Alive, Crucified, Women Raped Then Sold

a reply to: Indigo5

I'm not excusing it at all. My thoughts, though, are that as soon as we start treating them with the same inhumanity, then that makes us no better than them. Retribution, in my eyes, never works, and only serves to cement the distaste further.

originally posted by: aorAki
The inhumanity in this thread is saddening.
An eye for an eye only succeed in making everyone blind.

That sounds really nice, but in a dog eat dog world, reality is what matters. Not some feel good phrase that some Nun muttered decades ago.

So much for the moral high ground.
SMH.

That is what you pacifists will never comprehend, Morality does not matter when you're fighting against pure evil. I know you mean well, but we have no choice but to fight fire with fire. Even then with that, we don't behead women and children. People who do that need to be completely eradicated. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: SheopleNation

Beheading, exploding, electrocuting, hanging, lethal injection, etc etc, we all are part of the cycle of violence that MUST be stopped, or we will all go down.

The amount that is spent, globally, on military and warfare is sickening and more than enough to begin to build bridges (even a portion of it is sufficient to eradicate world hunger and give people the means to help themselves out of poverty and cycles of enforced hatred); but I suspect that there will be comments that no (insert racial/religious epithet) will get my hard -earned tax money. No! I would much rather the sons and daughters continue to spread blood across the globe.

There is a better way, beyond national borders or religious boundaries, but we have to want it hard enough rather than enforcing culturally-bound views via the barrel of a gun.

I am a proud pacifist, and will always be a conscientious objector, especially in the face of injustice, bullying and I expect a torrent of "nyah nyah nyah what if...." or " rely on others to stop evil" abuse. All I see are people wanting to propagate evil.

dp

originally posted by: Indigo5


I'm not excusing it at all. My thoughts, though, are that as soon as we start treating them with the same inhumanity,

I agree...thank goodness we aren't going into villages and en masse raping children in front of their families and then burying them alive.

I am not excusing over-zealous interrogations but to equate them with what ISIS is doing or AQ has done is moral slight-of-hand (false equivalency) that has no place in the debate in light of the horrors ISIS is visiting on innocent people and then proudly tweeting about.

No...it is not the "same inhumanity"

originally posted by: Indigo5
) that has no place in the debate .

The debate, as per the OP is about CIA torture, to the point of death....that is, essentially state-sanctioned terrorism and IS as bad, if not worse than a group without the backing of a state....

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: Indigo5
) that has no place in the debate .

The debate, as per the OP is about CIA torture, to the point of death....that is, essentially state-sanctioned terrorism

Terrorism is the intentional targeting of innocent civilians to further a political or religious agenda.

Example: Raping and torturing all the pre-teen girls in a village in front of their families and then burying them alive.

originally posted by: aorAki

originally posted by: Indigo5
) that has no place in the debate .

and IS as bad, if not worse ....

NO..it is not the same..

originally posted by: aorAki

I am a proud pacifist, and will always be a conscientious objector, especially in the face of injustice, bullying and I expect a torrent of "nyah nyah nyah what if...." or " rely on others to stop evil" abuse. All I see are people wanting to propagate evil.

No need for reckless assumptions, but would you commit violence in order to defend yourself, your family or friends? Please answer the question.

As I have said before here many times, that global unity, best of all possible Worlds nonsense is just that, nonsense. It's nothing but a pipe dream, though a very nice one I will admit. Also, We cannot shoulder the Worlds problems.

In the real World, which is dominated by natural law, human beings are cruel to one another. I mean, it's not like I want it that way or anything, I just don't live on fantasy Island with a French Filipino midget named Tattoo. ~$heopleNation

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

We don't care WHAT it makes you feel like. WE HAVE to win against the NASTIEST creatures to walk the planet.FEELINGS are for home and FAMILY.
WE have been and aways will do it everyone does when it is important enough and lives hang on the results. I recall the film about that nuclear TERRORIST that Sam Jackson was in,WHAT A JOKE! If you think the real world is like that keep hiding the truth is FAR WORSE.

a reply to: thesaneone

If we wanted to protect our country we would not have meddled in the Middle East 30 years ago.

Why is it that countries who don't mess with other countries don't find themselves in a perpetual state of war?

"Protecting our country" my ass.

originally posted by: SheopleNation


No need for reckless assumptions, but would you commit violence in order to defend yourself, your family or friends? Please answer the question.

No, I would not. I would not put myself in that situation in the first place. I haven't for the forty-four years I have been here so far and I always believe there is a better way. I have been able to talk reasonably out of potentially violent situations.

originally posted by: SheopleNation
As I have said before here many times, that global unity, best of all possible Worlds nonsense is just that, nonsense. It's nothing but a pipe dream, though a very nice one I will admit.

It is precisely that attitude which condemns us to remain in states of violence and warfare. There is a better way, but you have to want it enough and be prepared to share it with others enough.

originally posted by: SheopleNation Also, We cannot shoulder the Worlds problems.

If we all lift each other up on our shoulders we can all share in the success,rather than being selfish. We may well find that by shouldering the World's problems in the short term, those problems dissipate. It's well worth trying, seeing as the current method is not working.

originally posted by: SheopleNationIn the real World, which is dominated by natural law, human beings are cruel to one another. I mean, it's not like I want it that way or anything, I just don't live on fantasy Island with a French Filipino midget named Tattoo.

Yes, humans certainly have the ability to be cruel to one another, but we also have the ability to help one another. I sense that you don't want it hard enough and so are just going along with the status quo because it's easier. I have bigger dreams than that and believe it is possible.


Now, enough about me. Let's get back to the OP and the claim that the CIA flew in the face of International Law. Did they? Winning at all costs is not winning. It is riding the slippery slope to evil.

originally posted by: DestroyDestroyDestroy
a reply to: thesaneone

If we wanted to protect our country we would not have meddled in the Middle East 30 years ago.

Why is it that countries who don't mess with other countries don't find themselves in a perpetual state of war?

"Protecting our country" my ass.

Excellent point and one that will likely be overlooked by many.

a reply to: aorAki
You claim to be a pacifist, that's great. How about I buy you and your family one way plane tickets to Syria or Iraq. I will even buy you an Arabic language system so you can try to talk your way out of being killed just for being a foreigner in the caliphate. You say there are other options, what are they, a group hug? These terrorists are pigs, I am against torture and release, I say shoot them on the spot so they can never kill innocents again. Why do you not understand that these pigs wish for death to themselves and the infidels in the name of their God? THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE...EVER! I'm all for building a wall around them, shooting any that try to escape, that way they can just kill each other with their blood lust. Pacifist...pffft, you hide far away from the turmoil and act like the pigs will change, that is laughable.

originally posted by: govmule
a reply to: aorAki
You claim to be a pacifist, that's great. How about I buy you and your family one way plane tickets to Syria or Iraq. I will even buy you an Arabic language system so you can try to talk your way out of being killed just for being a foreigner in the caliphate. You say there are other options, what are they, a group hug? These terrorists are pigs, I am against torture and release, I say shoot them on the spot so they can never kill innocents again. Why do you not understand that these pigs wish for death to themselves and the infidels in the name of their God? THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE...EVER! I'm all for building a wall around them, shooting any that try to escape, that way they can just kill each other with their blood lust. Pacifist...pffft, you hide far away from the turmoil and act like the pigs will change, that is laughable.

Sounds like you're pretty full of bloodlust yourself. Can we build a wall around you? No shooting necessary; we'll build it really high.

a reply to: Tangerine

That pretty much sums it up.
Filled with so much anger he becomes just like those he hates.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: govmule
What democracy did the US help overthrow, Iraq hahaha? Do you have evidence or speculation? As far as medical treatment, where do the wealthy people of the world go for treatment, the Mayo Clinic. It is a shame that it takes wealth to get the proper medical treatment, but, my point was we lead in medical treatment abilities. Evil=when a government kills tens of thousands of its own people on its own soil to stay in power, it also includes genocide. Apparently you are disillusioned about America, its sounds like New Zealand is the place to be.

Iran 1953
Guatemala 1954
Congo 1954
Congo 1960
South Vietnam 1963
And probably others we don't know about

My comment was about health care delivered to citizens not health care available only to the wealthy.

I think you're forgetting what Europeans did to obtain the land that comprises the U.S.

The U.S. provided the chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein that he used to commit genocide on Kurds living in Iraq.

I'm realistic about this country. It's not perfect.

So the most RECENT overthrow the US had was 1963? What is your point, how is that relevant to the world today?

Europeans get the credit for the US now? What a joke, they were dictators that were thrown out of a country whose residents believed in democracy. You do realize that the Europeans came from the middle east, and the ME came from Africa? Your comments are senseless.

Try talking about current issues, most of us are aware of history.

The US gave Saddam the chemicals? I never heard that before, do you have evidence? Oh wait, maybe the US gave it to him in 1950.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: govmule
a reply to: aorAki
You claim to be a pacifist, that's great. How about I buy you and your family one way plane tickets to Syria or Iraq. I will even buy you an Arabic language system so you can try to talk your way out of being killed just for being a foreigner in the caliphate. You say there are other options, what are they, a group hug? These terrorists are pigs, I am against torture and release, I say shoot them on the spot so they can never kill innocents again. Why do you not understand that these pigs wish for death to themselves and the infidels in the name of their God? THEY WILL NEVER CHANGE...EVER! I'm all for building a wall around them, shooting any that try to escape, that way they can just kill each other with their blood lust. Pacifist...pffft, you hide far away from the turmoil and act like the pigs will change, that is laughable.

Sounds like you're pretty full of bloodlust yourself. Can we build a wall around you? No shooting necessary; we'll build it really high.

Unlike you, I believe in protecting the security of innocent Americans. I served my country, did you? I believe in freedom for peaceful people. I guess you think the pigs killing children by cutting them in half is ok, crucifying Christians is ok, beheading the media is ok? Go pound ME sand.

originally posted by: aorAki
No, I would not. I would not put myself in that situation in the first place. I have been able to talk reasonably out of potentially violent situations.

My friend, sometimes there are situations that occur that are beyond our own control, surely you understand that right, you seem like a reasonable person? ~$heopleNation