Lithuania says Russia reopens Soviet conscript cases

Russia appears to be reopening criminal investigations against Lithuanians who refused to serve in the Soviet armed forces after the country declared independence nearly 25 years ago.

The Lithuanian prosecutor-general's office says Russia has asked for legal assistance over Lithuanians who defied orders to do their Soviet military service in 1990-91.

Lithuania says Russia reopens Soviet conscript cases

Well this is worrying indeed. Putin now seems to eyeing the Baltic States in a VERY backhand way. This could be the start of something ugly and insidious. I am concerned now that Putin has lost his marbles or those around him have. Not good news indeed.

I hardly see a point in doing this, other than to show that he's got enough power to go after people for pretty much nothing.

...which translates as "I have power to do a lot of things and I don't see anybody finding a way to stop me"...

As I said earlier today, this is like a pissing contest. I wonder when it'll become something more serious than that... and I'm REALLY not looking forward to that day.

Perhaps it is simply to give another appearance of strength, which this does in two ways. First is the obvious way, that he will not let people get away with defying the Russian state. And second, it gives the impression that Russia is preparing for war, and thus have opened their conscription files because they are planning on conscripting soldiers again, or something to that affect. I don't think this means anything as far as war is concerned, I just think Putin wants the West to think that he is preparing for war, which will make them less likely to take certain actions. He wouldn't risk war over Ukraine or Estonia however, at least not in my opinion. Unless he was utterly convinced that the West would not take action. But I don't think he is convinced.

I guess this is the downside of playing the NATO puppet.

They probably should have thought about the possible consequences in depth before hand.

Play dirty with Russia, they respond in kind. Can't argue with fairness.

Kind of like sanctions against Russia are good, but when they respond with a single sanction, its bad.

Sending cookies good, sending trucks of humanitarian aid, bad.

Selling gas good, demanding payment, bad.

It`s just an easy way to show what would happen to soldiers if they don`t obey.

Russia expects war later on, so it`s a "good" way to put fear in Russians not to do the same.

My guess is it`s more for domestic purpose.

a reply to: jajaja

NATO´s puppet?

Considering the history with Russia, Baltic nations have had every reason to join NATO voluntarily. There was a lot of debate, whether to take Baltic nations in or not, after years of hard work finally the nations managed to get their backs secured. I would not even say there was much choice. Considering the size of these nations, they need strong allies, otherwise history might repeat.

Why should Russia be pissed about it? You oppress, occupy nations for decades/centuries and after they break free, you are angry because they are searching for security for something like that never to happen again?


To OP:

In my eyes, this is absurdity. Russia is trying to show their strength, but this, absurd. Its been over 20 years since and these people did not serve due to their own nation declaring independence. They were not citizens of Soviet Union anymore, but citizens of Lithuania, a separate country, and they were listening to the suggestions of their own government. Absurd move by Russia.

wrong thread

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
It`s just an easy way to show what would happen to soldiers if they don`t obey.

Russia expects war later on, so it`s a "good" way to put fear in Russians not to do the same.

My guess is it`s more for domestic purpose.

Then they should enforce it at home. The Russian forces have had a desertion problem for a couple of decades. Of course all you have to do is pay off the right person and nobody cares or even better your unit commander never reports you being gone and pockets the money for you feeding and training. This is pretty much the way things work in the Russian military. What Russia is doing with Lithuania is simply trying to screw with them like do everybody on thier borders. Lithuania is in NATO so Russia can not directly threaten it, so it choses this route instead.

The post Soviet Baltic states have become a bulwark of aggression against Russia through overt and covert support from the United States. Russia has realized that a war against it is lurking in the corner. It is better for Russia to choose its battlefield.

Yes as NATO has started moving overtly against Russia, I see military moves from Russia against the Baltic States. It is coming.

originally posted by: LukeDAP
I hardly see a point in doing this, other than to show that he's got enough power to go after people for pretty much nothing.

Because Lithuania has been extremely vocal about what Russia has been up to. In the UN they have taken Russia to task many times, and have taken a lead role in refusing to allow Russia to move on certain UN requests based on the language Russia wanted to use.

Its no different than Russia kidnapping the Estonian officer. That action came just after they got done hosting Obama and NATO.


We are seeing Russian throwing temper tantrums because they are not getting their way.

a reply to: Cabin

They were not citizens of Soviet Union anymore, but citizens of Lithuania, a separate country, and they were listening to the suggestions of their own government.

I want to apply same rule to the fighters in Novorossia, can I ?
They are automatically ceased to be citizens of Ukraine, and now should listen to their own Novorossia government.

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Cabin

They were not citizens of Soviet Union anymore, but citizens of Lithuania, a separate country, and they were listening to the suggestions of their own government.

I want to apply same rule to the fighters in Novorossia, can I ?
They are automatically ceased to be citizens of Ukraine, and now should listen to their own Novorossia government.

No, and this is why. Russia recognizes Lithuania as an independent counry (along with the rest of the world) and has done so for for 3 decades once it attack on Lithuania failed as the entire Soviet Union collapsed. Even Russia itself declalred its sovereignty from the USSR in 1990. So trying to compare the two has zero merit. This would be more like the Confedrate States of America trying to go after deserters from its forces 3 decades after the CSA ceased to exist.

Russia has a long long histtory of crimes against the baltic states. This just continues its efforts to make them think they will never escape Russias grasp.

a reply to: Wirral Bagpuss

This seems to be ramping up doesn't it? A border guard kidnapped from the Estonian border, and now this?

And I agree with your sentiments, Putin has lost his marbles. If you get a chance to watch Panorama (UK investigative program) then you will see even former allies and ambassadors saying the same things. They believe Putin is a megalomaniac with a romantic and irrational adoration for the former Soviet Union and it's his ambition to claim it back under his leadership.

Another called him a high-stakes gambler, willing to bet everything and risk it all for the "big win".

I've been saying this for a while though, invading Ukraine was just the start of a much bigger plan. A leader doesn't do something like that lightly, and it's a part of a larger strategy or goal. Quite simply, he's risked far too much for one peninsular, he is not going to stop at Crimea. He lost the support and friendship of several countries, encouraged the NEED for NATO to further its cover in Russia's neighboring nations (despite using the proximity of NATO as a propaganda tool in his own country and claiming it's threatening them), and damaged the Russian economy considerably by the inevitable sanctions - and all for a peninsular he already had a lease on?

It's clear to me he is paying a long game, and this is not just about Ukraine.

originally posted by: GargIndia
Yes as NATO has started moving overtly against Russia, I see military moves from Russia against the Baltic States. It is coming.

You seem to have reversed reality here.
NATO is now forced to expand to protect member states BECAUSE of the actions of Russia in Ukraine. Russia has become a direct threat to its neighbours, and yet you want to claim that it's NATO being "aggressive" and that Russia has a right to defend itself against something it has created?

This is nonsense, utter nonsense.

If Putin hates NATO so much, why the hell did he invade Ukraine and (possibly) shoot down a passenger aircraft, which could ONLY encourage NATO members to increase their security?

There is a war coming, that much is true. The only reason there is one coming is because Putin has lost his mind and thinks he has a chance to recreate his romantic vision of the USSR and is willing to use military force to achieve it. Obviously, just as the world had to stand up to Hitler, we will all have no other choice but to protect NATO members and the region from attack by Russia.

originally posted by: Cabin
a reply to: jajaja

NATO´s puppet?

Considering the history with Russia, Baltic nations have had every reason to join NATO voluntarily. There was a lot of debate, whether to take Baltic nations in or not, after years of hard work finally the nations managed to get their backs secured. I would not even say there was much choice. Considering the size of these nations, they need strong allies, otherwise history might repeat.

Why should Russia be pissed about it? You oppress, occupy nations for decades/centuries and after they break free, you are angry because they are searching for security for something like that never to happen again?


To OP:

In my eyes, this is absurdity. Russia is trying to show their strength, but this, absurd. Its been over 20 years since and these people did not serve due to their own nation declaring independence. They were not citizens of Soviet Union anymore, but citizens of Lithuania, a separate country, and they were listening to the suggestions of their own government. Absurd move by Russia.

This. Russia has a very brutal history in the Baltics.

a reply to: Rocker2013

There is no reason for NATO to even exist. NATO was relevant in cold war. It is no longer relevant.

You are recreating history (violent as you say) by enlarging NATO. The better approach was to reduce militarization of East Europe which would have forced Russia to reduce its arms too.

You people think that peace can be achieved by violence. Fact is it is impossible. Look at Iraq.

You keep on quoting history. If you want peace, you have to look forwards not backwards.

OK you send some Estonians to sabotage Russian cities. Most likely these soldiers will be killed or captured. Then obviously there will be a Russian reaction. What will NATO do in this case?

Any country, even small one can cause a lot of trouble and a country like Estonia can put whole of Europe in jeopardy.

The relations between nations are based on realpolitik. Estonia is not worthy of association with big European States.

a reply to: GargIndia

What color is the sky in your world?

I ask because your posts seem to take the position of Alice in wonderland with your vision for europe and Russias actions.

The only thing missing from your analysis is mention of the Mad hatter and the March Hare.

The provocation is from Russia and no one else.

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: Rocker2013

There is no reason for NATO to even exist. NATO was relevant in cold war. It is no longer relevant.

You are recreating history (violent as you say) by enlarging NATO. The better approach was to reduce militarization of East Europe which would have forced Russia to reduce its arms too.

You people think that peace can be achieved by violence. Fact is it is impossible. Look at Iraq.

You keep on quoting history. If you want peace, you have to look forwards not backwards.

NATO might very well have gone away if Russia could have just stopped starting conflicts in the states around it. Russia actions and threat has brough NATO back to life and with more nations wanting to join than ever. Maybe if Russia had something to offer other than threats other countries would want something to do with them.

originally posted by: LukeDAP
I hardly see a point in doing this, other than to show that he's got enough power to go after people for pretty much nothing.

It is Putin's way of destabilizing the neighbours and keeping Russian "influence" high.

The pattern is to have some sort of "interest" in a neighbouring country - either claiming to protect Russian citizens against imaginary threats (Ukraine, Trans-nistria), or supporting breakaway movements such as in Georgia & Azerbaijan where they aren't actually "Russian".

He's just feeling out ways he can interfere in other neighbours now - exploring the options. He'll be a little more careful with Lithuania as it is a NATO country, but het kidnapping of an Estonian and subsequent denial of consular access shows NATO is not a deterrent to this kind of conflict.