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Don't believe the world is warming? Fever Rising will convince you!

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posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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Yay we're all going to die again




posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: lostgirl
I'm not sure how to best express what I want to ask, but...

...Do you have a 'guestimate' as to when it will become 'obvious' to the average person (non-believers so to speak) that the climate change thing and especially its probable 'societal' effects are really happening?

What I mean is, how long do you think we have before the sort of changes that affect 'everyday, average American life' will become an inarguable fact of the future, even to people who don't pay attention to this sort of stuff (i.e. your average suburban PTA member, for example)?


Heyas, folks. Heh, haven't been here in a while, but I think Joe did a good thing writing this book. What's happening WILL affect you, and probably not in a good way.

As to that above question, I think it'll be different for different people. You'll be affected when you're affected. For example, the parents of the 22 children in the Houston area whose kids were knocked unconscious by a 'strange smell' in an outdoor stadium in 2011 - they have already been affected. All the people whose homes have been destroyed when their parked vehicles burst into flame in the middle of the night or the farmers whose barns have been destroyed when a parked tractor exploded inside their barn in the middle of the night - they've been affected already, even if they don't quite comprehend what it is that has affected them. The young couple who burned to death in their SUV in early 2013 - who didn't even TRY to exit the vehicle - they've been affected so hard that they're six feet under now. The parents of the healthy 9-year-old boy who dropped dead walking to school - they've been significantly affected. The thousands of people who had to flee a 'toxic cloud of unknown origin' on the coast in Rayong (Indonesia) - when you're fleeing poison gas in the middle of the night, you've been affected.

People are already being affected. When will people in general wake up to how dire and pervasive the threat is? Who knows. I guess once more people drop dead, or once those toxic clouds of unknown origin blow ashore and wipe out a few cities instead of 'just' sickening a few thousand people, once the explosions get big enough and start wiping out towns, once enough kids have been incinerated in spontaneously igniting vehicles - something along those lines. Time will tell.

Also, I have never blamed man-made global warming for anything. I don't CARE what began this extinction event. I tend NOT to blame mankind too much though, since the same thing happened in the past when there were no human beings around at all. In any case, what caused it is not what's going to kill me or anyone. That it has begun, that is my only concern. You can blame it on anything you like; that doesn't matter. What does matter: how do we maximize the number of survivors, preserve as much of our civilization as possible? What began the process is far less relevant than surviving it. Let those who survive it argue about causes, since they'll have more time.

While I don't agree with Joe on all things, he's written a book that is well worth reading, buying, and sharing with anyone whose life that you care about. Buy a hard copy and share it around with your entire family. Then you and your family can discuss what you're going to do to enhance your chances of living to see another year. People working together are far more likely to survive than people on their own - division of labor, multiple skills, etc.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: the2ofusr1
I would imagine that if there were enough methane in our atmosphere ,someone would invent something to capture and utilize it in the way of energy .No fracking involved just some kind of a air pump .At this point the methane is not plentiful enough or dangerous enough ...aside from the senario of a tipping point do you have any idea what the ppm might be ? a reply to: Rezlooper



Currently, methane ppb is around 1800. Pre-Industrial age (1750), the ppb was usually lower than 700.

Source

These levels have shot up like this in just the past few years.

NOAA shows CH4 and CO2 both rose sharply in 2007

The Arctic News site shows that we passed 1800 ppb back in early 2013

Methane levels surpass 1800 ppb

Here is some more information from Arctic News about the methane global warming veil from June of this year.

arctic-news.blogspot.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">Arctic News

In September of 2013, methane levels had a peak reading of 2571 ppb

Source

And, what is a livable stage? What level of sustained ppb of methane in the atmosphere could we, mankind, continue to live with?


To put those numbers into context, what is considered a "normal" release of methane? According to Dr. James Hansen, an American adjunct professor in the Department of Earth and Environmental Sciences at Columbia University, 1250 ppb is a livable level.

We are now well surpassing that level daily.

Harold Hensel, another member of AMEG, has this to say about the recent high level readings:

"This is epic! Keep watching the Laptev and East Siberian Sea. This is a very dangerous place for methane to come up. Huge amounts of methane hydrates are stored below. They have been frozen there safely for over 10,000 years. We are witnessing the thawing and large release of methane from this area for the first time in over 10,000 years. The fear is that at a critical point there may be a catastrophic sudden burst of methane from this area. This would more than likely trigger runaway global warming. We could be watching the beginnings of this. If the red on the 1750 ppb and the yellow on the 1950 ppb setting on the methanetracker.org keeps spreading and intensifies, we are watching it happen. I hope this is an anomaly and these areas return to little or no activity."

NASA and scientists around the world are also taking note of the alarming methane levels:

"A NASA science team has observed “amazing and potentially troubling” levels of methane and CO2 from the rapidly warming Arctic. Given the staggering amount of carbon trapped in the permafrost — and the fact that methane is a very potent heat-trapping gas — the space agency is now asking: “Is a Sleeping Climate Giant Stirring in the Arctic?”


Source
edit on 8-9-2014 by Rezlooper because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: lostgirl
I'm not sure how to best express what I want to ask, but...

...Do you have a 'guestimate' as to when it will become 'obvious' to the average person (non-believers so to speak) that the climate change thing and especially its probable 'societal' effects are really happening?

What I mean is, how long do you think we have before the sort of changes that affect 'everyday, average American life' will become an inarguable fact of the future, even to people who don't pay attention to this sort of stuff (i.e. your average suburban PTA member, for example)?

And - though I hate to make you 'go there', as a parent to young children (I have a daughter myself), what do you think their lives hold, if nothing is done on a wide enough scale to change the 'probable' future?


Thank you...I know it must be difficult to look ahead and see the potential for such devastation in our children's lifetime, so I just want to say that I really appreciate your willingness to be 'aware' of everything your research has found...





These are some great questions, lostgirl. I understand what you're asking about the when...when will the every day folk recognize there is a problem? That's one of the things my wife and I discuss, along with the fact that we have very young children. Although we've been together for nearly 20 years, we just started adding little rugrats five years ago, so, all I can think about is what I can do to increase their chances of living on and having a normal life. Just not sure anymore that than can happen...not with the current course we are heading on.

IMO, we only have a few more years before the symptoms are obvious to everyone and the government, media or no one for that matter, can hide it. If the government already knows what's happening, and I'm very convinced they do, then it is in that time frame that they will have to come clean.

As Jonny mentions in a post above, many symptoms are already occurring, especially with the fires and explosions, and those people involved have been affected. But, the general population isn't putting these things together yet. Each and every symptom today is still an individual random event, according to them. But, not to people like me or Jonny. We see it as a whole and recognize the problem. There are too many incidents occurring for them to be random. The explosions that Jonny tracks at his website Jumping Jack Flash Hypothesis are eye-opening. There are so many events and they are continuously increasing. Homes, businesses, tractor trailers, boats, RV's, chemical plants, recycling facilities, transformers, all just exploding, and in most cases, remain unexplained. Jonny explains it all at his site about the roaming plumes of gas that is escaping from below coming into contact with ignition sources. Once you look at the big picture, it all begins to make sense. Ask yourself why there are so many loud and mysterious booms reported.

These fires and explosions are just one of the many phenomenon occurring. Now, throw in sinkholes, extreme weather (like hailstorms and dangerous lightning and torrential rainfall), increased earthquakes and volcanoes, drug-resistant bacteria and mutating viruses, and more, you begin to realize there are a lot of symptoms once you connect the dots.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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a reply to: Rezlooper

Seems like doom porn to me. Recent interglacial periods reached higher temps than the one we are currently in, and yet somehow life prospered. It wasn't until the temps dropped significantly that species, including man in the last period of glacial growth, became endangered.

Another thing to consider is that as things warm up, clouds increase, which further reflects incoming heat.

What is going on in your little town cannot be used as anecdotal evidence of climate change.

Fill a greenhouse with water vapor, and have an identical one with no vapor and see which one gets the hottest. Hint: Not the one with high humidity.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Rezlooper

Seems like doom porn to me. Recent interglacial periods reached higher temps than the one we are currently in, and yet somehow life prospered. It wasn't until the temps dropped significantly that species, including man in the last period of glacial growth, became endangered.

Another thing to consider is that as things warm up, clouds increase, which further reflects incoming heat.

What is going on in your little town cannot be used as anecdotal evidence of climate change.

Fill a greenhouse with water vapor, and have an identical one with no vapor and see which one gets the hottest. Hint: Not the one with high humidity.



Widespread volcanic activity leads to large-scale releases of methane and hydrogen sulfide. We are seeing widespread volcanic activity, and we are seeing large-scale methane releases, and, what did you say was your explanation for the kids dropping unconscious in Houston or the toxic cloud that hit Indonesia? Or the cloud of noxious gas that hit Jamaica? Or the 'rotten egg' odor in Quincy (MA), or the 'rotten egg' odor and fish die-off in the Inner Harbor in Baltimore? Those events were hydrogen sulfide.

So you're talking about mankind and 'interglacial periods' when what's happening is more akin to 'The Great Dying'. We weren't around for that, so there's nothing in human history that compares.

Here's the basic gist of how it goes, from Scientific American in 2006 (PDF):

www.chicagocleanpower.org...

What they forgot to mention was how this affects human civilization as it is today, especially the fires and explosions. But peoples' behavior is changing anyway. For example, due to all the people burning to death in the last year in bus fires in India, the people are now avoiding the AC buses, even in the summer when the demand normally increases.

And major international insurers are pulling out of the recycling business around the planet because of the rise in devastating recycling facility fires. They could have saved themselves and their shareholders a few million or billion if they'd paid attention when I TOLD them that was going to happen BEFORE it happened. Not like I'm going to cry over major international insurers losing piles of money - but that obviously indicates a rising problem that is planetary in scope. They'll be pulling out of the metal recycling and auto salvage industry too - fires are tearing those places up in the last year. But I guess they need to lose a few million or billion too, before they wake up.

Say, there sure are a lot of planes coming down smoking or on fire or with unconscious or dead pilots these days. Atmospheric problem = plane problems. Good luck hiding that.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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a reply to: Rezlooper

my guesstimate is that in 10 years people won't be able to deny it anymore. things have changed pretty rapidly in the last 5 years and it's going downhill exponentially. between the increase in disease, the increase in very damaging storms, the loss of food crops, and water becoming more scarce..... those things won't be able to be ignored in 10 years.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: JonnyMnemonic




Widespread volcanic activity leads to large-scale releases of methane and hydrogen sulfide. We are seeing widespread volcanic activity, and we are seeing large-scale methane releases, and, what did you say was your explanation for the kids dropping unconscious in Houston or the toxic cloud that hit Indonesia? Or the cloud of noxious gas that hit Jamaica? Or the 'rotten egg' odor in Quincy (MA), or the 'rotten egg' odor and fish die-off in the Inner Harbor in Baltimore? Those events were hydrogen sulfide.



So how do we stop it or do I have to buy the book to find out?



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 06:45 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: JonnyMnemonic




Widespread volcanic activity leads to large-scale releases of methane and hydrogen sulfide. We are seeing widespread volcanic activity, and we are seeing large-scale methane releases, and, what did you say was your explanation for the kids dropping unconscious in Houston or the toxic cloud that hit Indonesia? Or the cloud of noxious gas that hit Jamaica? Or the 'rotten egg' odor in Quincy (MA), or the 'rotten egg' odor and fish die-off in the Inner Harbor in Baltimore? Those events were hydrogen sulfide.



So how do we stop it or do I have to buy the book to find out?


You can't stop it. It is unstoppable. You may be able to buy yourself some time. On a civilization scale, we should be focusing on Plan B options. Plan A - living on the surface of the Earth - is not in the cards. Underwater, underground, off-planet. If you analyze the various sub-problems with some seriousness, and work with others, maybe you can extend your life. There are no guarantees. A cloud of 1:1000 hydrogen sulfide could hit you tonight and you fall over dead. On the plus side, it's fast. They call it the 'Slaughterhouse Sledgehammer Effect', where you're dead before you hit the ground.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Rezlooper

Seems like doom porn to me. Recent interglacial periods reached higher temps than the one we are currently in, and yet somehow life prospered. It wasn't until the temps dropped significantly that species, including man in the last period of glacial growth, became endangered.

Another thing to consider is that as things warm up, clouds increase, which further reflects incoming heat.

What is going on in your little town cannot be used as anecdotal evidence of climate change.

Fill a greenhouse with water vapor, and have an identical one with no vapor and see which one gets the hottest. Hint: Not the one with high humidity.



You're right about clouds, but these things only help to buy us a little more time. Cloud cover does reflect the sun as does ash cloud from more volcanoes, which we are seeing an increase of. But, the volcanoes continue to spew more methane and hydrogen sulfide gases, so in the long run, it only temporarily slows down the process. As with the temperature increase causing more vapor, thus increased clouds and rain, this is also on temporary because the amount of methane spewing from so many sources continues to spew, such as permafrost, hydrates, fissures in the earth's crust from seismic activity, fracking, wetlands (which are becoming more moist with all the rain), and other man-made and natural causes. There is just too much methane release right now for increased clouds to stop the process.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: Rezlooper

Well I for one salute you for the intestinal fortitude it takes to actually sit down and write a book when you obviously feel so strongly about the subject matter.

Hopefully there will be those much further up the food chain that will look at your hypothesis and either verify or discard the dire predictions.

If verified then I have to wonder if a real solution to mitigate the process could be found. This planet is very big; bigger than most are aware except for some numbers thrown around in science books. The oceans are deep, big, and wide (that sounded better than just deep and wide to me?).. so you have to wonder what puny little man could do to change the course the planet is on ?

Edit to add: There was a paper that said there were over 1 million hydrothermal vents spewing very hot stuff at the bottom of our oceans. If they are warming the oceans then nothing mankind could do would stop the process. Volcanic activity rules much of the planets ecosystems and weather and most will except that volcanic hydrothermal vents are hot.. The question is how much of an effect on the big wide ocean they actually have ?

If I remember there was a theory that one of the major extinction events in Earth's past was hypothesized to have been caused by a great methane release ? It was part of other things going on (volcanic?) but it was a large contributor according to the theory or what I seem to remember reading long ago...

Anyway, salute and I hope there is more than just talk done about your theory to prove you are spot on or if not ...fill in the blank... hahhaha


edit on 8-9-2014 by 727Sky because: ..



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:38 PM
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a reply to: 727Sky

Thanks, 727sky. It's been postulated in recent times that methane may have been the cause of several die off periods in earth's history. The difference between then and now may be the time it took for the event to happen. Those past events may have taken thousands of years while this time around, it may only take decades. Those of course, were natural processes in the past, and this time may be to, but you have to wonder why such an accelerated event. Methane levels have been rising for decades in our atmosphere, but only in the past 7 years has there been a speed up of the release. And then, in the past few years we have seen a noticeable change in many happenings, such as an increase in earthquakes, volcanoes, sinkholes, Yellowstone activity, land cracks and land slips, methane hydrate vents, sea level rise, glacial melt, permafrost melt, sky noises and booms, disease outbreaks of drug-resistant bacteria and mutating viruses, fish, bird and land animal die-off events, the dying off of bats and bees, extreme weather events and rainfall amounts causing more and more catastrophic flooding, unexplained fires and explosions, mysterious human deaths and of course, fireballs. How fireballs you may ask? I believe that the methane is rising into the mesosphere where fireballs normally and safely burn up and it's somehow allowing the fireballs to penetrate further into the atmosphere, thus, they burn longer and brighter to us on the surface. What used to be very rare (meteorites crashing to earth) is becoming much more common. The thick blanket of methane in this layer of the atmosphere may also be the reason that so many of these fireballs are burning green. Oh, back to what we're talking about...yes, this isn't the first time methane has catastrophically released into the atmosphere, but it is the first time since we've been around.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: Rezlooper
Man you are quick on the come back! Writing a book must make for a quick typer. I am still stuck on the two finger method !.. I did an edit to my post about the hydrothermal vents which you have probably considered also... Anyway good luck.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: Rezlooper
a reply to: crayzeed

If these are old vents simply re-opening, then what's the difference? What caused them to re-open? Why now, in this day and age when we are all debating whether this is happening or not. Why is it so hard for some to see what is really going on?


Could it possible be due to the fact that the entire universe is heating up? Where did all this methane come from? Has it not been venting ever since the iceage ended?



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: 727Sky

LOL, yes, you get pretty good on the keyboard after a while.

About those vents. For me and what I think about all this is that yes, there are many submarine volcanoes erupting right now as well, that we don't know about just yet. And this is probably helping warm the oceans, killing off sea life and causing more hydrates to thaw and this is all part of the domino effect of what's happening. But, what started this geothermal activity in the first place? Of course, volcanic activity always has and always will be...but, why the increase? IMO, it's because of the global warming that has already occurred, which in turn causes land ice melt and when the land ice melts it either adds or decreases weight pressure on the earth's crust either on land or the thin continental shelfs off the coasts. I dedicate a full chapter to volcanoes and go into much more detail about this in the book, but here is a link to Jonny Mnemonics website where he explains it all pretty well. He has a theory called Mass-Induced Seismic Amplification.

MISA theory on Jumping Jack Flash site


Basically, I proposed a simple concept: that a gram of water in a dam's reservoir weighs the same as a gram of water off the coast of Japan (or California, or Indonesia, whatever), and if weight in a dam's reservoir can cause earthquakes (and clearly they can and sometimes do), then introducing extra mass to new areas globally would increase seismic instability globally.

Where is all the extra mass coming from? Well, most of it, obviously, from melted ice, quadrillions of tons. The entire planet looks different from orbit now compared to what it once looked like. Now, I'm not saying some extra water mass can make a completely geologically inactive area do anything. But a LOT of volcanoes and tectonics just need a little extra pressure to blow. Also, most of the ice is melting away from thick continental plates and is ending up in the oceans, where the plates are much thinner and therefore more sensitive.

The oceans are the planet's reservoir. The vast amounts of ice that are melting off the land are filling up that reservoir. Essentially, MISA Theory is very similar to the concept behind Reservoir-Induced Seismicity, but on a global scale and with three differences: 1) nobody did a geological survey of the reservoir area to make sure that the added mass wouldn't cause problems, as is always done with dams; 2) the plates under the oceans are far more fragile than those beneath any land-based reservoir; and 3) this reservoir cannot be drained to relieve pressure.


And this part here is very important on the why we may be seeing increasing volcanic activity both above ground and submarine.


Here's a factoid: each square mile of water that is one meter deep weighs 5,709,917,475 pounds. Not quite 6 billion pounds. Now you're thinking, well, we don't have one meter of sea level rise yet. That's true. But realize, sea level rise is not the same from area to area. Some areas have higher amounts than the average, some lower. It's possible that we're creeping up on that amount in some areas already. In any case, the process is ongoing, the mass flowing in continuously, month after month, year after year.

Think about your average volcano sticking out of the ocean. It may have 100 square miles (10x10 miles) where added mass could have some effect. So if the sea level around that volcano is increased by one meter then the amount of newly-introduced weight affecting that volcano is 570 billion pounds. If it was 99% of the way to blowing its top already then that might just be plenty to push it over the edge. The same is true of faults, except their area is often much larger.


edit on 8-9-2014 by Rezlooper because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:15 PM
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originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: Rezlooper

Well I for one salute you for the intestinal fortitude it takes to actually sit down and write a book when you obviously feel so strongly about the subject matter.


I agree with giving ATS member Rezlooper accolades for actually trying to do something regarding a subject he feels strongly towards.

While I don't deny climate change, I do question mankind's actual contribution and have faith in our planets ecosystem to rebound by looking back at the known geological climate record.

Admittedly, this topic isn't one of my stronger points and I could very well be mistaken so am not looking to debate.

Once again, respect to Rezlooper for trying to make a difference in an otherwise indifferent world.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:26 PM
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I made a mistake on the link in an earlier post about the first three chapters. Those weren't the first three chapters. Here is the correct link.

First Three Chapters of Fever Rising



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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originally posted by: Drunkenparrot

originally posted by: 727Sky
a reply to: Rezlooper

Well I for one salute you for the intestinal fortitude it takes to actually sit down and write a book when you obviously feel so strongly about the subject matter.


I agree with giving ATS member Rezlooper accolades for actually trying to do something regarding a subject he feels strongly towards.

While I don't deny climate change, I do question mankind's actual contribution and have faith in our planets ecosystem to rebound by looking back at the known geological climate record.

Admittedly, this topic isn't one of my stronger points and I could very well be mistaken so am not looking to debate.

Once again, respect to Rezlooper for trying to make a difference in an otherwise indifferent world.


Thanks a lot drunken parrot. It means a lot. Writing this book was a huge undertaking and it was a long road. It's nice when someone recognizes that.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 11:10 PM
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a reply to: Drunkenparrot




While I don't deny climate change, I do question mankind's actual contribution and have faith in our planets ecosystem to rebound by looking back at the known geological climate record.



to think we haven't helped increase these levels i find a bit disconcerting ...with the amount of fossil fuels we burn,the waste we produce,the eco-systems we destroy,the river and ocean we pollute ...the list goes on and on...granted the earth is a brilliant recycler but there has be a tipping point somewhere along the way



posted on Sep, 9 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

The GHG effect is poorly understood, poorly documented and, unfortunately, is the subject of politicization and fraud. Look at all the "green" companies that have received public monies, not produced a thing and have gone bankrupt. Big money for researchers, big money for the green industry, big money for those like Al Gore who have millions or billions invested.

There is a well established cycle of glacial and interglacial periods. We are nearing the end of our interglacial from a cyclic time frame. We have not reached the higher temps that marked the previous interglacial periods.

Glaciation has begun (global cooling) despite high levels of co2, methane, and temperatures in the past. There have been periods long ago when co2 levels were as high as 7000 ppm, and yet life prospered. At the end of glacial growth periods, co2 levels lag behind increases in temp. Oceans release co2 as a result of heating. They trap co2 as a result of cooling.

Funny, but if methane is being released as a result of man's activities, what is the explanation for higher temperatures than today's in previous interglacial periods? Was man's campfires responsible for global warming? Or, perhaps, aliens were responsible back then.

Or perhaps man has achieved a high level of civilization in every previous interglacial period, brought on global warming...and then when glaciation returned (despite the GHG's) it wiped out our previous civilizations? Nah...

Co2's GH properties are not exponential, by any means. If you double today's co2 levels, the GHG effect would not be doubled, far from it. It's effective increase in GH affect is reduced at greater concentrations. The rate of reduction is logarithmic.

If you fill a greenhouse with water vapor (a GHG) the temperature inside will drop. There is much the doom crowd either does not know, or is not saying.



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