Billions of pounds wiped from value of Scottish firms after yes vote

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Kester


People in Scotland need to stop being seduced by some tartan and bagpipes romantic notion perpetuated by Braveheart and wake up to reality.

Best comment on this subject I've read in a while


Slangevar!

originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?

Looking at the map, about 20%. It would be very interesting to hear the reaction of the SNP to that demand from the Shetlands.

What Map...?

The Scottish Independence vote for the sake of the Scottish people and those if the UK, should be a 'no'.

Salmond is so despicable that I cannot even look at his slimy face. The SNP's attempt at throwing Scotland down the suwannee is so stupid, Salmond should be lynch mobbed or placed in a mental institution by the Scottish people instead.

Scotland would be utterly trashed for a very very long time, hundreds of years or more if it was a 'yes' vote, and the rest of the UK would be suffering from it for a long time also, but not nearly as much as Scotland would.

The main investors there have created companies and accounts in England to rapidly shift their clients investments into just incase.

John Lewis and other retailers have said their prices would increase.

The major Scottish banks would move their head offices to England.

Scottish mortgage deals would suffer, people would be paying more to their lenders every months.

Many major countries and trade partners have advised keeping the union and would review their trade to Scotland.

There would be many Scottish jobs lost in many businesses, including the civil service, military, naval and private companies.

The cost of trading within Europe for Scotland would rise significantly.

European trade would also reduce significantly for Scotland, on which many businesses depend.

They would need to wait for a long time for EU membership and it has been mentioned by Spain for example that it would be considered low regard and might be denied entry.

Any new Scottish currency would cost the people a lot.

Scotland would need to tax every scottish person £18k yearly for any attempt at keeping Sterling and even then it will always be a no as it is technically illegal, so they would need to find new currency.

Stocks and shares in scottish companies would drop.

Scotland would be seen as a risk and would be downgraded from the current UK AAA financial status to the level of Trinidad and Tobago. International finance options would see it as too unstable to risk anything on.

And many many more true reasons that voting 'No' to Scottish independence is the only way.

I suggest people read these articles:

www.telegraph.co.uk...

If the Scots do vote to separate then they will have to decide on a currency. Sterling, while genuinely independent, is not an option: it cannot be because of the role of the lender of last resort. The UK Government has ruled this out. Scotland could set up a new currency. But this would cause a flight of both capital and financial institutions that would hole the new currency below the waterline before it had floated off the dock.

tel egraph

An RBS source confirmed that it has followed Lloyds in drawing up a similar plan to relocate to England. A Treasury source said: “As you would expect, RBS have also been in touch with us and have similar plans to base themselves in London.”
Last week RBS admitted that a Yes vote was likely to “have a material adverse effect on the group’s business, financial condition, results of operations and prospects”.
The move would give the banks, which both accepted significant help from the Government during the financial crisis, the security of having the Bank of England as a lender of last resort – something Scotland cannot rely on.

telegraph

Much of Alex Salmond’s warped economic thinking on how an independent Scotland could prosper is based on the notion that enough crude remains locked under the North Sea to make the country a global energy superpower.
However, as we discovered yesterday, when both BP and Royal Dutch Shell lined up behind the influential voice of Sir Ian Wood to expose Mr Salmond’s projections for the North Sea’s resources as little more than a cunning ploy, this is an economic myth designed to deceive the Scottish people into dissolving a 300-year-old union that guarantees their economic security through feast or famine.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Scottish oil and gas revenue will reduce significantly by 2035 according to industry expert Sir Ian Wood.
Sir Ian, who has forecast there are about 15 billion to 16.5 billion barrels of recoverable oil left in the North Sea, warned that the drop in revenue would leave a hole in an independent Scotland's budget.

www.telegraph.co.uk... -austerity.html

An independent Scotland would have to more than double its financial reserves at a bare minimum to ensure financial stability, according to forecasts based on other countries that have adopted foreign currencies.
Treasury Committee calculations using figures provided by the Bank of England indicated Scotland could require years of austerity to accumulate the financial safety net it would require if it fails to secure a currency union following a “Yes” vote.

www.bdo.co.uk...

www.thedrum.com...

The paper’s editorial stated: “There are significant uncertainties with the proposals before us. There are some major parts of life that will be changed and we do not know what those changes are or what impact they will have, and at a cost we cannot calculate at present. It is clear there will be some constraints on what an independent Scotland can do.

“The political union has helped to provide security and stability. And over the centuries Scots have played a large part in shaping that union. Many, many Scots have benefited from opportunities it has afforded. We are a part of the fabric of the United Kingdom. We are a significant part of its history.

“So, with the choices before us, the conclusion is that we are better together, that Scotland’s best interests lie not in creating division but in continuing in the union and using its strengths to help us continue in our success.”

The paper added that its decision had not been influenced by fear.

“That is not a view taken because of fear, or lack of confidence, or lack of patriotism,” it went on. “It is the very opposite. It is not a view that simply does not want to take risk. It is a measured view that assesses risk against possible benefit and loss.

“It is seeing where the best interests of the Scottish people lie, understanding the benefits of working with the people in these islands in collaboration and partnership and seeing the opportunity to shape the strongest, most secure, fair and just society that we all want.”

www.forbes.com...

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
Scotland would need to tax every scottish person £18k yearly for any attempt at keeping Sterling and even then it will always be a no as it is technically illegal, so they would need to find new currency.

I don't think it's illegal, just fraught with difficulty.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Aye so you want me and the rest of Scotland to feel guilty for getting rid of a corrupt government that we didnt vote for ?
How about you and the rest of the UK feel guilty that the current government doesn't represent us and let us be free to determine our own future

Guilt trips is it ?

originally posted by: DukeEligos

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Kester


People in Scotland need to stop being seduced by some tartan and bagpipes romantic notion perpetuated by Braveheart and wake up to reality.

Best comment on this subject I've read in a while

Slangevar!

It's a bait comment , and if absolutetruth truly believes that Scots are voting over braveheart bagpipes and tartan then he/she is deluded

as we say in Scotland " dinnae talk pish, awa an take yer face for a jobbie"

a reply to: EvillerBob

It is contrary to EU regulations and also the UK government said no so it is illegal.

www.investmentweek.co.uk...

One of Europe's top officials has said Scotland will not be allowed to keep using the pound sterling and remain in the European Union in case of an independence vote.

Olli Rehn, vice president of the European Parliament and former commissioner for economic and monetary affairs, said in a letter to chief secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander the use of sterling in Scotland is prohibited unless Westminster grants explicit permission.

All three main political parties have already refused to allow Scotland to retain the pound in case of a 'Yes' vote, making this option illegal under EU law, which requires a country to have access to an independent central bank to use a currency.

Alex Salmond, Scotland's First Minister, argued this would not stop the country from using the existing currency, but
Rehn has moved to prevent that option.

He wrote: ""As to the question whether 'sterlingisation' were compatible with EU membership, the answer is that this would simply not be possible since that would obviously imply a situation where the candidate country concerned would not have a monetary authority of its own and thus no necessary instruments of the EMU."
Sterling fell by almost a cent against the dollar on Tuesday, as the latest YouGov poll showed growing support for the 'Yes' campaign.

The currency moved below $1.65 to trade at $1.6468, while its volatility saw the biggest rise since 2008.
Meanwhile, asset managers have been turning to US-dollar denominated assets in anticipation of further falls in the British pound as the Scottish referendum looms.

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

As Alex Salmond pointed out
the banks already have their headquarters in London, so where exactly are they planning to move ?

According to a few reports Scotland would be the 14th richest country in the world

also research councils are not removing funding from our universities for research and development, well I know this because my mother is the finance manager of Edinburgh university and her boss the Dean of Edinburgh Uni has been told so by the research councils, the reason why they are not pulling funding is because Scotland produces excellent results

there seems to be a whole lot of facts and figures flying about , but it looks as though Scotland is voting yes
and the rest of the UK will just have to deal with it , like the NO voters in Scotland.

a reply to: sapien82

The facts and polls say otherwise.

Go read the articles from scholars and experts.

Salmond is a salesperson of the lowest order.

Do not bother replying.

Your offensive comments are contrary to ATS T&C.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: theabsolutetruth

there seems to be a whole lot of facts and figures flying about , but it looks as though Scotland is voting yes
and the rest of the UK will just have to deal with it , like the NO voters in Scotland.

And those voting "Yes" are doing so due to what Salmond has lied about, for example, you won't be using the British Pound, no matter how much your scream and shout about it.

And Salmond told you all the the banks and businesses moving south already have a HQ in London, perhaps you could provide us with the London HQ address for the following as I can only find their Scottish HQ addresses;

RBS

The registered address is The Royal Bank of Scotland plc, Registered in Scotland No 90312. Registered Office: 36 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, EH2 2YB.

Scottish Widows

Scottish Widows plc, Registered Office: 69 Morrison St, Edinburgh, EH3 8YF

Lloyds Group PLC

Lloyds Banking Group plc. Registered office: The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ

Standard Life

Standard Life, 1 Baileyfield Crescent, Edinburgh, EH15 1ET

But if you want to believe Salmond then so be it, but according to a recent survey of Scottish Businesses residing in Scotland, one in three have said they will move down south if the "Yes" campaign wins. That would equate to 33% of all employers moving their business away from Scotland. These businesses have over £15 billion in sales per annum. That's a lot of Tax revenue your new independent Scotland is going to loose.

The Guardian

Scotland currently spends 17.2 Billion pound per annum on benefits. This includes Tax Credits, State Pensions and other benefits. This equates to 30% of the Scottish Government spending or 11.4% GDP. Some 469,000 working age people in Scotland are on benefits.

With all these companies leaving Scotland in the event of the Yes vote winning, and a massive reduction is tax income for the Scottish Government, which will also lead to more people becoming unemployed, where on earth will Scotland find the money to pay all these benefits? Please don't say the Oil revenue as the taxes from this per annum will barely cover the interest payments on the sovereign debt you will incur once independence is achieved.

In my opinion, your country will be broke, all those who wish to work will move down south. Those on the dole will be hit hardest when your socialist government can no longer afford to pay out over £17 billion in benefits each year.

Salmond has lied to you all in a big way, not to have a currency sorted before even offering the referendum is absurd. And to make a final point as I have seen many Scottish members say you're keeping the pound, I for one along with many other English people will be appalled at the British Government if they allow an independent Scotland to keep the pound. You want to be independent, great! but paddle your own canoe.

As the old saying goes, "you've made your bed now lie in it"!

a reply to: flammadraco

No friend alot of Scots are voting not based on how much money they will have but because
we will have rid ourselves of a corrupt system of governance
nothing to do with materialism and what we will lose or gain monetarily
we are doing it because its the right thing to do so we can create a fairer society for our country
for the people that live here, so that children are not living in poverty so that families are not surviving on food banks
so that government employees and public services employees are paid a fair wage in line with inflation
where politicians are more accountable for crimes against the people

I may lose my job working for the UK government if I vote yes. the current government plans to freeze my pay until 2018
and I haven't had a pay rise in 8 years so I'm quite happy to vote yes and be rid of them !

Im not voting for Salmond, Im voting for the independence of a nation and will be voting for the green party in the next election as they have by far the best manifesto and would excel in an independent Scotland

a reply to: flammadraco

Salmond said it mate not me , I never said I believed him , you seem quite adept at google searching why don't you find out yourself.

Why would a business incur costs of moving their headquarters from one country to another and have to pay redundancy packages to employees not a very good business model just saying !

Our bed was made for us and has been in every election and the last general election and we have been lying in it and have now got bed sores and no longer wish to lie in that filth so we are getting up and leaving

Currency, yes so when we vote for independence are we suddenly overnight going to stop using pound sterling, are the banks going to take all of our money away from us and the money in our homes, are they going to come and collect my copper jar and take it all back to the bank of England?
Are HMRC going to come and collect all the unpaid taxes from corporations in Scotland who owe to the state after independence
they seem to have a hard time doing it as it is , so the idea that the pound will suddenly just vanish from circulation in Scotland is a joke
These things take time at cant be resolved overnight

As I have said numerous times I don't have all the answers, your arguement is clearly with Salmond not me, I am voting yes to be rid of Westminster and their corruption , plain and simple
if that makes me a # in the eyes of some English, Welsh and Northern Irish then so be it
and yes we are pretty capable of paddling oor own canoe.


there is also the matter of trident 56 minutes from my house, I don't like illegal wars and I don't like weapons of mass destruction sitting near my house . How about the UK government takes them back we don't want to pay for those and we don't want to go into illegal wars
Scotland was against the war In Iraq and against the invasion of Afghanistan, we are against Israel invading Gaza , our current lot dont listen to us so we are voting them out !

How about you just watch this video
from Ivan Mckee
where gives facts taken directly from the GERS report for Scotland without the media spin
maybe that will help with your financial questions which I cant answer
it's ok he doesn't have a heavy Scots accent and I dont think there are subtitles for any non UK ATS members

Well bust my bagpipes, there goes the price on puddings. All relax, it wont pass, it would be suicide.

a reply to: sapien82

No, I want you folk to see this for what it is.

Neither us down here in the South, nor your lot in the North are responsible for the parlous state of our democracy, the fault for that lies squarely on the bastards in the cabinet and in Whitehall.

But you should feel awful that you have not got the stomach to stand beside the rest of the UK, who ALSO did not vote for what we got in the last election, or to be quite frank, any of the elections we have had here since I was a bloody toddler. You should feel bad that people who call you kin are being left to a fate which they only have a snowflakes chance in hell of escaping if we all stand together.

You should feel like a bunch of turncoat deserters frankly. That is all this hogwash is.

Independance: Because it takes less balls than cleaning house.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Scotland has been standing aside and voting since we joined the Union in 1700 and it has not once helped us save for when we went broke on the darien scheme.
It has since been a debt slave colony a testing ground for radical government policy and a cash pot for selling of industry Scotland has benefited the union but has never really been given anything in return

Mate Scotland is 5.3 million people England has almost ten times our population and that's England alone
what cant you achieve without us ?

Labour and conservative are one and the same party , its those parties you need to sort out, Scotland has been given an opportunity which it has been campaigning for for more than 30 years because we are fed up of dealing with government who we don't elect and who don't care about us , we are just a pay check to them.

Once we leave , it should at least shake people into doing something about it , Scotland has woken up 4.3 million people have registered to vote its the greatest Scottish voting turn out in history.
If it's a no vote or a yes vote either way people are paying attention now
People in the rest of the UK may now be paying attention as well and with that they will see why we want out , maybe they will vote for the right party in the next general election.

Im sorry but no one will change my mind , I want what is better for society as a whole, but there is no chance that the UK will vote out any of the criminals in the next election, we have the tories, new labour and UKIP , all who have ridiculous policies which undermine the working class, dissolve our rights and making life living hell for those at the bottom. That is what the UK will have as a political leading class for the next few decades, Scotland doesn't want it but sadly 5.3 million people cant change what 53 million vote for its simple numbers , we could vote for any other party and no matter what it would always be a government that is not aligned with the best interests and policies which align with the Scots people.


Labour has been dissolved , true labour died with Tony Ben Tony blair and Brown took us down a dark path under the guise of neo liberlism

tariq ali says it best in my opinon puts it across just perfectly on why we should vote for independence

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: flammadraco

I may lose my job working for the UK government if I vote yes. the current government plans to freeze my pay until 2018
and I haven't had a pay rise in 8 years so I'm quite happy to vote yes and be rid of them !

So you're using your vote as a protest vote then? That is what an election is for, you never saw the English demand independence when we had a Scottish Prime Minister for 12 years and wreaked our economy and took us to war in Iraq (Blair and Brown).

If that is the case then we have nothing left to discuss.

a reply to: sapien82

What are you even talking about?

We are ALL just a pay check to the government, and always have been in the living memory! I very much doubt it has ever been different than that, all the way back to the era of the Industrial Revolution! Even the BEST politicians we have had in this country had motivations not entirely pure for the good work they occasionally did!

I have no problem with people who want to change the system, or even burn it down in flames and take a leak on the smouldering remains, but this divisionist BULL is not the way to go about it. Unity, despite the hardship it might come with, is always preferable to division, brotherhood better than tribalism at its worst.

You want to know what the real cost of all this is? Its nothing to do with the financial issues that may arise, or be solved by this song and dance. The real cost of this, is that where you had allies for your legitimate belief that Westminster is a pot of crap, well over due an emptying, now all you will have is an awful lot of people who feel like they just got stabbed in the back by their own family. That is the cost, the only important cost, of what you folk are voting for up there.

You cannot blame us, those of us who actually love Britain, and everyone who walks on its skin, for feeling this way, feeling forgotten and ignored, not only by our government now, but by a whole country of the Union. You would probably find it easier to accept that point of view, if you were not so determined that Westminster and its horrors are worth running from rather than fighting. This IS the cowards way out, and it IS a betrayal of all good people of this Isle who loved your nation and its part in our historical identity, our flag, and our hearts.

The pro-independence Scots would not be considering this if they valued the people of Britain nearly as much as those who will vote against it do, or indeed nearly as much as they are valued by the rest of the nation. Screw what Westminster thinks of Scotland, we, the people of the British Isles, by and large LOVE the Scots! That is why this is such a dick move, because when you spine shank people who love and respect you, that makes YOU the chump, and that is what this is all about.

We all live with a crap system of government, that is not unique to Scotland. We all live unrepresented by our government, we all live under unreasonable economic circumstances, all pay too much tax and get too little out of it, all have trouble finding work when we need it, and gainful work at that, and the only difference between the pro-independence movement and everyone else on this entire island, is that for some reason they think they are entitled to better than everyone else is getting, and are prepared to turn their backs on their kin to get it.

Screw that. You know what, sod it. If that is the attitude prevailing, then you are welcome to your thrice cursed independence. If you really do not understand the wider meaning of community enough to WANT to share the fate of the rest of the nation, then perhaps we are better off without the lot of you.

So now its my opinion and attitude and not the facts
democracy has failed in Britain the union has failed,

failed thrice socially politically and economically
britain is dead you should all have realised that by now
the union is in its death throws
no political party in westminster is campaigning to fix the UK just more cuts and more spending
more wars , more selling off of our unions industries

Scotland has a real chance to end this system for us all !
and end it for good by creating a new system where it does work

my attitude is Scotland can make it better for its people and if we can leave a union that isnt working and do that then so be it , it doesnt matter what you or I think of the peiople of Britain, the government do everything against us and we are ending them for us and hopefully for you

hate me if you want , damn us if you want , im voting yes!

Whilst we are here and on ATS a conspiracy website
The University of the west of Scotland has studied the british media for a year leading up to the union and has provided conclusive evidence that the media are biased towards the union!

YES for now and forever , we shall go forth and prosper and good riddance to westminster and the corruption