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Billions of pounds wiped from value of Scottish firms after yes vote

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posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree that united we should stand but when the system doesn't work and it abuses the people its supposed to benefit then its time to remove that system and break it down and throw it away.

And you cannot do that if you are not part of the afflicted number, if you remove yourself from its grasp to the point where you have no power of complaint toward it!


Scotland has the opportunity to better itself and it's people but at the same time shake up the system so that England , Wales and Norhern Ireland can say well if Scotland can why cant we
there is nothing to say that once a new system of governance is in place we can unite again and be stronger than before

Of course there is. Do you really think for a moment that once the Scots leave the Kingdom, there will ever be a situation which would allow for anything other than an INCREASE in tyranny from Westminster? Once you lot go the battle will already be bloody well lost, there will be no damned thing to unite, because the moment we loose Scotland, that is the moment when what remains will become so powerless to stop the rot, so threadbare and broken that all that will hold it together will be an even more unfair system, enforced in increasingly unfair ways.

Make no mistake, this is the decapitation of the entire Kingdom, and will hurt all the wrong people. It will not touch the power base, but it will kick the rest of us in the kidneys, put us down just as sure as a broken kneecap.


but its too far gone now the Union has failed , we had a good run and now its time to close this chapter in British history and make new waves in the world.

There is plenty of space up here your all welcome to come live and work here.

No we are not. It costs money to move house. The people worth caring about here, are the ones who despite every possible effort, have not got the freedom of movement which moving to the other end of the Isles would represent. We get the crap end of the wedge no matter what shape the country is, but I never thought, never in a million years, that we would be offered such a wedge by those north of the border. Perhaps I am too idealistic in my love for the flags of the Isle, and the people who stand beneath them, perhaps I was foolish to think that love was returned in kind. But I never thought we would die like this, and make no mistake, that is going to be the only result.

You vote how you must, but do not for a minute think that a yes vote will mean anything other than an acceleration of the corruption, of the rotten growth underneath it all, and the concentration of even more power to the center. We will suffer for your freedom. I only hope that when the smoke clears, that you still think it was worth it.




posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Scotland will either use Sterling or create a new currency , Scotland would likey take a proportional amount of the debt based on our population and amount borrowed, alas I'm no economist I dont have all the financial answers, our economy will back the currency, just because most currencies are backed with oil, we too could back it with oil,


I think that the YES campaign really should have had the issue of currency sorted a long time ago. You keep stating you're keeping the sterling but all party leaders and the Bank of England have said its not happening. So despite what Salmond has lied to you all about its not going to happen. An independent Scotland will not use the British Pound, end off.

Seems to me that a lot of folk have been disillusioned with the twaddle coming out of Salmond's mouth. Read the reports from independent analysis about your currency. I am absolutely dismayed that so many folk have said "O its OK, Salmond said we can keep the pound". You can call your currency whatever you like including a "pound" but it will not be backed by the Bank Of England. An independent Scotland will have no Central Bank, so how can you just come up with a new currency in 18 months?

Moody's has already said at best an Independent Scotland will have a credit rating of "A" which is a similar rating that Poland has. If Salmond then carries out his threat of defaulting on the Scotland's share of UK debt then say good bye to the Credit Score as no country or bank in the World will lend money to a country when the first thing it does is default on its sovereign debt.

All major Credit agencies and major banks have advised the UK not to have a Currency Union with an independent Scotland as it would have a negative effect on our AA1 rating.

Finally, the Oil economy Salmon keeps harping on about, its collected by private companies and as such the Scottish Economy will only benefit from the Taxes from the sale of oil not going to get a penny extra for the sale of it. Its proven that Salmond has over exaggerated the amount of revenue coming in from oil, and from what I understand the income from the taxes will barely cover the costs of the Scottish debt interest payments.

I lived in Scotland for 8 years and saw what SOME folk were like during the World Cup from first hand experience, I still have English friends in Scotland and they have informed me that its so bad up there at the moment. Might I just add that I have lived and worked in Wales, Ireland and Scotland and never saw sectarianism or Anglophobia until I lived in Scotland. That being said I have changed my mind, I hope you all vote "Yes" and lets see how great a country you really are. I hope the ones on the dole are ready for a rude awakening as if they think they have it bad now with the bedroom tax, give it 18 months before the real cuts set in when all major companies and your work force migrate south.

Good luck.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 09:49 AM
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a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 11:30 AM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?



No, when islands such as the Shetlands belong to one country but are located in the territorial waters of another country, they are treated differently. I forget the specifics (it's been a while since I looked at it) but I believe they are only given control over their immediate vicinity, probably not enough to squeeze in an oilrig.

Edited to add: actually, I may be wrong in this case. The borders appear to be determined from the northernmost territory, which would be the Shetlands. While the above post should still be relevant in the case of Orkney, losing the Shetlands might well cut back the Scottish territory significantly.
edit on 11-9-2014 by EvillerBob because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 11:41 AM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?


Who told you this. ?
Back in January the People of Milton Keynes were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving England and become part of Scotland....See how this BS Works.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 12:02 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?


Who told you this. ?
Back in January the People of Milton Keynes were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving England and become part of Scotland....See how this BS Works.


True, but Milton Keynes doesn't have an "opt-out" clause written into any referendum.

The last devolution referendum back in the 1979 included an opt-out clause that would have entitled the Shetlands to remain with Westminster in the event of a yes vote from the Scottish mainland.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 12:30 PM
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a reply to: TrueBrit

Sorry but every nation should have the right to determine their own future whether we are in a union or not, the current government says that Scotland take more than we put in if thats the case then things will look better for the rest of the United kingdom should it not?

Getting rid of Scotland will be a weight of the UK governments shoulders if we cost them an arm and leg and subsidise us and everyone in Scotland.

I've never really been a fan of the Union ever since I learned about it in school through modern studies and politics , it's never benifited Scotland save for that one time when we started the Darien scheme in the 1700's and stopped us from going broke.
Ever since then it seems as though Scotland has been nothing but a testing ground for radical government policy.
Anyways thats the past and we are looking to an independent future without all the bad history behind it, a fresh start.
If the rest of the Uk end up in trouble then that is unfortunate but why were we given a referendum on independence in the first place?


As for the the British pound as I said Im no economist but isnt Sterling an interchangable currency that can be used by anyone ? Much like the dollar , so be it if we use Sterling we can create our own central bank and ensure that its regulated to prevent any hedge fund/collapses , we can create another central bank just like we did with the bank of England , Scots have a tenacity for inventing good things it was Sir William Paterson who drafted the idea for the bank of England.
Anyways many questions which Im sure will be worked out .
It is sad that if Scotland does become independent I wouldn't like to see the rest of the UK suffer, but we have been given a great opportunity and we wont squander it.
Every nation should have the right to self determination England , Wales , Northern Ireland no exceptions , this is what happens when you live in a democracy people vote and the rest have to deal with it!



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 12:56 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: TrueBrit
As for the the British pound as I said Im no economist but isnt Sterling an interchangable currency that can be used by anyone ? Much like the dollar , so be it if we use Sterling we can create our own central bank and ensure that its regulated to prevent any hedge fund/collapses , we can create another central bank just like we did with the bank of England


If it heads in that direction, it seems most likely that you would create a large currency reserve - not so much a "central bank" as a large pile of cash kept safe for a rainy day. Nothing really wrong with that, other than having to take the money out of circulation and sit on it - I think the BoE suggested about £120billion was needed.

One of the problems is that the currency would be controlled by a different country who are going to be making economic decisions based on their own best interests, which are not necessarily the same as Scotland's best interests.

None of this forms an insurmountable barrier, or means that an independent Scotland will crash and burn. It just means that the reality is probably not as clear cut and rosy as Salmond seems to be telling you.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 01:01 PM
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a reply to: EvillerBob

So Scotland creates its own central bank and stores a deposit of cash as suggested it would be controlled by Scotland and no one else! As Sterling would be used as Scottish tender , Sterling is interchangeable and any country can use it , we would create our own bank and control the interest rates and inflation rates no one else !
It can be done and will be done



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: EvillerBob

So Scotland creates its own central bank and stores a deposit of cash as suggested it would be controlled by Scotland and no one else! As Sterling would be used as Scottish tender , Sterling is interchangeable and any country can use it , we would create our own bank and control the interest rates and inflation rates no one else !
It can be done and will be done


That's not how it works. You are describing a separate currency with the same name, rather than unofficially adopting UK Pound Sterling. That is another option open to Scotland, but one that brings another set of issues with it. The question is - which set of risks would you prefer to accept?

Again, it certainly can be done, and there's nothing to say that it can't succeed. The general concern is that the problems that need to be resolved are being ignored or swept under the carpet rather than being addressed openly.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: sapien82

Oh, well as long as you will be sad about what this will do to the rest of us, I guess you have nothing to feel guilty about then.

What a bloody joke. I do not CARE what my government thinks of Scotland, I care about what it thinks of ALL OF US, the WHOLE of the people! And all those who are voting yes care about is what they can personally and nationally benefit from in Scotland. Well that is lovely I must say. Let me tell you this. If Scottish people, had asked those south of the border, campaigned here in England, in Wales, if they had mobilised their cousins in Ireland, for support for a proper clean up of Westminster, so that we all could have lived under a good government system, with properly distributed power across the counties, let alone the countries, then we would have stood with you.

If it had come to a full blown revolution, and the leadership for it had happened to come from the north, we would have stood with you. You have not even given us a chance, you are just cutting and running, and cursing the ground behind you. But it is a very cold comfort to know that some of you will feel sorry for the rest of us. Thanks. Thanks very much.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: Soloprotocol

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?


Who told you this. ?
Back in January the People of Milton Keynes were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving England and become part of Scotland....See how this BS Works.


It was in a paper from the Shetlands. Apparently the local MP was asking about it.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Scotland's oil-rich Northern Isles tell Alex Salmond: We might stay with UK

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Alex Salmond warning over Shetland oil after independence

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Isles should be allowed to remain in UK if they reject independence

www.shetlandtimes.co.uk...



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 02:14 PM
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Yes let us all quake as these banks and financial institutions threaten the economy of Scotland in the case of the Yes vote.

Hang on a minute........

These are the very same companies that almost brought the UK (and the western economy ) to it's knees because of their wonderful sound financial decisions 7 to 10 years ago !

Well can trust them can't we ! NOT!



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?


Looking at the map, about 20%. It would be very interesting to hear the reaction of the SNP to that demand from the Shetlands.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: yorkshirelad

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: sapien82

Here's another question. Back in March or April people in the Shetlands were asking if they could possibly vote on leaving Scotland and staying in the UK. If they did vote on that, wouldn't that remove a large chunk of the North Sea oil reserves from Scotland?


Looking at the map, about 20%. It would be very interesting to hear the reaction of the SNP to that demand from the Shetlands.


Not just the oil fields, but the infrastructure. The Shetlands are home to one of the largest oil terminals in Europe.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: EvillerBob

So Scotland creates its own central bank and stores a deposit of cash as suggested it would be controlled by Scotland and no one else! As Sterling would be used as Scottish tender , Sterling is interchangeable and any country can use it , we would create our own bank and control the interest rates and inflation rates no one else !
It can be done and will be done


That's not how it works. You are describing a separate currency with the same name, rather than unofficially adopting UK Pound Sterling. That is another option open to Scotland, but one that brings another set of issues with it. The question is - which set of risks would you prefer to accept?

Again, it certainly can be done, and there's nothing to say that it can't succeed. The general concern is that the problems that need to be resolved are being ignored or swept under the carpet rather than being addressed openly.


Totally agree and that is my only concern about a Yes vote. However, I suspect there is a plan but that it is known to be unpopular (not the pound) and/or prone to massive arguments due to uncertainty.

What I do know is that rUK is going to the dogs as society becomes ever more unequal. The tories are encouraging and promoting this through their policies. Lib dems do what lib dems do....anything to get their hands on power. Labour will continue to appease middle England to get elected and thus at best be custodians of an economy that diverges.

There are lots of onknows with independence except one huge one :

The (broken ) UK carry on with the same old same old can be changed with Scotland going in a different direction. A scandanavian one would be a vast improvement.



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: Kester

For what it is worth I believe the Yes vote will carry the day but I also believe like a great ship with it's back broken in two that this will really be the end of Britain as a world power, england will have a far smaller vote in the european union, wale's will likely want there own referendum and in the future a further fragmentation of Britain by way of Devolution is likely as a notherern assembly (The precursor for a seperate parliement for the north of England who feel ill done by with the wealth of there labour all being funneled down south by the right wing elite tory party) already being campaigned for in some parts of the north east but also gaining sympathetic ears in parts of the north west of england.

Personally after all our son's died together and mixed there blood on battlefields around the world and marriage has been a mixing factor with large percentages of england of scots descent (Were most of the poorest disposessed who could not afford passage to the new world or colonies ended up settling, that's right the industrial heartlands of britain have a very strong scot's ancestry mixed in), remember also it was primarily the wealthy scot's who got to stay or the city scots when the clearances got under way and there were two seperate clearances, that under the Campbells (the original highland clearances) as revenge against there traditional enemy's the Stuarts and there allies and the victorian clearances during which whole sale fraud was commited to steal land form the people in rural areas and make hunting reserves that the Laird could make far more money from than his sheep farming tennant's (primarily carried out by the scottish elite but with the motivation of wealthy southern investors who wanted to emulate Victoria whose family hunting at balmoral was seen as the thing to do by those people trying to emulate the monarch), well I actually think that some but definitely not all of the scot's independance movement is anti English and verging on being Traitor's to Britain, I am part scot myself and do not like Westminster with it's fraudulant corrupt hooray harry's and old boy network of the hierarchy but as the old saying goes What ever shall be and even if I had a vote which living in North west England I do not I would probably vote no and it would be like pissing in the wind, why well on that day all the poorest scots' who do not vote but traditionally hate the english that some have never even met will come out of there council estates and they will vote Yes.

The result will be an england in which the Tory's become the irreversibly diminant party and the south will continue to get the lions share of all tax spending followed by local campaigns for that independant northern assembly I mentioned earlier and the welsh will watch, if scotland does as good as mr Salmond claims which I severely doubt as all it will do is create a northern hierarchy with there own class distinctions though a better democratic system due solely to scotlands smaller population, then the Welsh will push for there own referendum and they will get it.

With each break away and fragmentation of our once proud British nation our competing Neighbours will gain more strength over us in the EU parliament as we shrink to insignificance, the wealth will go with the power and the EU country's with the largest population and vote will gain that money i.e. Germany and France with the city of london hanging on as a tax haven, this is why the Banks in Scotland want to move south, it is not scare mongering as they can see the writing on the wall for the whole of Britain and only have there own vested interests at heart.

When this is done as I am absolutely certain it will be what great industry will ever again exist in Scotland or England, we will be in the same boat as portugal and that is not a lie, try to project it over a 40 year period if you do not believe me.

This is the final end of Great Britain and will be one of the saddest day's in this nations unified history as well as it's last, the old soldiers who fought for Britain but already feel betrayed by the Tory scumbags and left wing internationalist who have squandered there childrens inheritance giving it to foreign immigrants, down in whitehall will not beat about the bush and they will call them what they are, traitor's not just to Britain and there poor brother's south fo the border but to those scot's who died fighting for the union and whose bag pipes thrilled and enlivened the entire british army by there courage under fire, Judas gained his silver but lost his soul and in the end it availed him nought with others spending his wealth to bury the dead.

I actually love the Scots and some of our finest prime ministers have been Scot's, they are a nicer people than most British and they are family as far as most British are concerned including me, they have to make there own choice and live with the dire consequence either way.

Who know's maybe I am wrong and it will be for the best but for one thing I feel it is a certainty they will vote YES and it is a gloomy future indeed for the politics of England which will then be right wing dominated class based twaddle and BS.
edit on 11-9-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: Kester

For what it is worth I believe the Yes vote will carry the day but I also believe like a great ship with it's back broken in two that this will really be the end of Britain as a world power, england will have a far smaller vote in the european union, wale's will likely want there own referendum and in the future a further fragmentation of Britain by way of Devolution is likely as a notherern assembly (The precursor for a seperate parliement for the north of England who feel ill done by with the wealth of there labour all being funneled down south by the right wing elite tory party) already being campaigned for in some parts of the north east but also gaining sympathetic ears in parts of the north west of england..

The Empire has been in decline since before the second world war. Now i wonder who's fault that could be...Hmmmm. Let me think.?



posted on Sep, 11 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Soloprotocol

I agree with that statement though it is not the Empire we are talking about, From the Scot's persepective it is the Whitehall centric governance of Britain that has Betrayed there trust but let us not forget, it was England that ahead of all other colonial powers abolished slavery (at least on paper) and it took several years for the scot's parliament to follow suit and until they did north of the border Slavery was still legal, like the English parliament the Scot's Parliament is mainly an old boy's club but labour traditionally had a stronger say in the Twentieth century in scotland which partially demolished this but not entirely by any mean's.

Most of Scotlands Historical engineering excellance was building ship's and railways as far as the british empire extended and modernising those country's under british rule, many of the Steam trains that still work india for instance are british steel Sheffield and Glasgow built engines ets and though there were a great many ship building yard in britain non were better than the clyde though they did equal one another with the crown often shifting between Southhampton, Liverpool, Tyneside and the Clyde, rememeber if you get into a car and drive in a single day you can drive with time to spare traffic not withstanding between the capitals of our united nation and speak the same language barring accent, spend the same money and use the same public services (before the NHS trust Fiasco), not down to the scot's but New Labour and the conservatives this has been under threat and I guess the Scots have simply had enough so I can no blame them or actually find any fault with them though emotionally I am P@:~ed off by the affair.

Take the entire land mass of the main Island of Britain and compare it to a US state and you will in most instance's find it fits with massive room to spare but in this island there is a population varience with bulk of Britains of all origins living and working in England while Scotland has only about 4 million of that population and a land area roughly half the entire island, had it not been for the clearances two thing's would be different, Scotland would have a population at least 5 to 7 time's as great as it does today with more infrastructure, town's and road's while England would only have about a half to a third of it's current population south of the border, why because that many of us are of mixed scot descent.

Because of the Stupid Rules on the referendum we do not get a vote even if we have scot's ancestry because we are south of the border and that is not fair at all but because of history it is just the way it is, there are even English mainly in the south who want to see the back of scotland and they are total utter idiots for that attitude as they are now aware of how much of the overall British budget is spent in the north and person for person it is actually higher than in England but were does all that money go as the average scot is not seeing it so those english are mixing figures up with fact's, also this has hielighted an internal filthy problem of racist bigotry on both sides of the border which all British whatever the outcome should hang there heads in shame over, it is not against foreigners taking British job's or claiming British benefits but against out Own brothers and sisters and to be quite frank is the domein of inbred brainless S+-@heads who have nothing better to do with there time and probably go to football matched to pick fights with rival supporters.

Anyway Mr Salmond (who I wish was a normal politician in whitehall even though he is the image of my brother in law Mr carrol), proposes to Replace Whitehall with Brussels since he intends to remain in the EU regardless of what the rest of Britan chooses, this is so he can keep the Scot's economy going through what he know's will be a local recession after the break away through EU subsidies but make no mistake he is an idiologist on the matter and would sell his soul for what he want's to happen so God help the poor sheep he mislead's with promises he can not deliver.
edit on 11-9-2014 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)




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