Billions of pounds wiped from value of Scottish firms after yes vote

Have just realised that 16 and 17 year olds will be allowed to vote for

the first time.

This I think will be advantageous to the 'Yes' vote as that age group are

generally totally disinterested in politics, going by my own experience of

that age group among family and friends, (good grief they haven't even

started college or university yet!!)

They are at that 'gung ho' rebellious stage of life where they think they can

change the world without giving a thought to 'consequences' or the

'bigger picture'

IMO if the "No" vote wins then we will have another referendum within ten years.

If the "Yes" vote wins and the Scotland goes into a recession and all goes belly up then the Scottish government will again ask to join the union as they did in 1707.

Whilst some romantic nationalists will state that the Scottish Government sold their country for £20,000 of gold, history tells a different story that the union served Scotland's economic interests and was driven also by a fear among Protestants that the Catholic Stuarts would succeed in reinstating an absolute monarch on the Scots throne.

Plus the fact Scotland was bankrupt when they decided to join the union due to the collapse in 1700 of attempts by Scotland to launch a trading empire to rival England's East India Company in Panama was a pivotal moment. Crippled by poor supplies and illness, it was quickly abandoned, losing some £400,000 - half of Scotland's available capital. For pro-Unionists it was conclusive evidence that Scotland's future prosperity was best served by union.

I wonder if History will repeat itself?

a reply to: theabsolutetruthwhy would they want to be part of eu if they had just voted to leave great Britain why join another bureaucratic cess polol after wading out of the one they had been in? the british should be worried because if they do break free does that mean that north sea would be part of their territory and with i all that oil?

a reply to: EvillerBob

Thank you. That clarifies it for me.

Scotland should vote NO a massive NO

And my reason for this is... Don't be lazy... Don't be biased, don't take sides, don't follow nationalism and cloud the mind or rather the brain,

Just go, do some reasrch

This is a huge deal

I love all the fear mongering to try and scare people away from voting for independence.

What you can actually gather from the amount of negative scare tactics is that it will be GOOD for Scotland to vote independence, otherwise the scare tactics would be going the other way.

You think it's really a coincidence that the Cameron oil field story broke just before the election?? If they genuinely wanted to keep that under wraps, it would have been KEPT UNDER WRAPS!

Anyone who thinks Scotland doesn't MORE than pull its own weight knows very little Scottish history and has no clue about Scotlands contributions to the modern world, especially in structural and medical sciences.

Personally I'm split on the issue because of two things.

1- The UK is imploding right now as a result of failed immigration and fiscal policies. Cutting all kinds of benefits and funding to police, fire and other government employees. Al whilst handing out HUNDREDS of millions of £££ every year in "foreign aid" to countries like INDIA... INDIA!!! One of the fastest growing economies on the planet!! Britain need to stop being a bunch of apologist pussies, and stop trying to make up for imperialism. Imperialism was good and bad, but make no mistake that many places benefitted greatly from the discipline and business practices introduced by the British. Ever heard of Hong Kong?

Luckily the UK is turning conservative quite quickly in the face of things like Lee Rigby, Sharia law, and many other totally unacceptable events/practices.

2- The people of Scotland tend to lean quite far to the left politically, and while I feel they need to cut England off because England is currently on fire; I also wonder, would an independent Scotland lean even further to the progressive, PC hyper-left and perhaps we'll watch as Scotland becomes the next immigration hot spot with liberal benefits programs for one and all. If Scotland vote YES, they need to take a long hard look at Sweden and Netherlands for lessons in what NOT to do or Scotland will be overrun with Sharia too.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

a reply to: theabsolutetruth

I love the Scots! And please forgive me but i am not totally up to date on any of this, but does a yes vote mean that Scotland will break away from Europe?

Thank you,
Pax

a reply to: eletheia

really thats how you see those allowed to vote at 16 ?

they are legally old enough to have sex and can be parents, can learn to drive , but cant think for themselves and their own futures enough to make an informed decision

your being ageist

a reply to: paxnatus

No it means we become an independent country with our own government outside of Westminster in London, we will then vote on joining the EU should we become independent

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: paxnatus

No it means we become an independent country with our own government outside of Westminster in London, we will then vote on joining the EU should we become independent

Good luck with that. It's highly likely that Belgium and Spain would veto Scottish entry.

a reply to: TritonTaranis

People overseas have to fight in the street and face death to obtain a real democracy installed by the people and for the benefit of the people, all Scots have to do is tick a box !

Our current union is not a democracy it doesnt work for the people and we are aware of this and will end the union and create a new democracy and system of governance that works

nationalism has absolutely nothing to do with voting YES

a reply to: proteus33

We would hold a new referendum voted on by Scots to determine if we wish our new independent country to join the EU , it would be up to the people of Scotland to decide this.

Yes if we become independent all the oil fields in Scottish territorial waters would belong solely to Scotland meaning all oil revenues generated would be given directly to the Scottish government

a reply to: flammadraco


This isn't the 1700's Scotland wont be crippled by disease and famine, we wont be scraping by and beg to go into union , we didnt have massive oil fields in the 1700's , History will not repeat itself , we are making History here not repeating it .

I thought I would live through a boring period of human history but it seems not, in fact the most exciting times for anyone of Scotland to be alive a real revolution of Scotland happening right before us we just have to reach out and grasp it

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: proteus33

We would hold a new referendum voted on by Scots to determine if we wish our new independent country to join the EU , it would be up to the people of Scotland to decide this.

Yes if we become independent all the oil fields in Scottish territorial waters would belong solely to Scotland meaning all oil revenues generated would be given directly to the Scottish government

Would Scotland be a Republic or a Kingdom? Who will write the Constitution? What claim does Scotland have to the oil fields, which are far beyond sight of Scottish land? Would it apply to be in NATO? What would happen to the base in Faslane? What happens to the border - will there be customs houses and passport controls? What if parts of the border don't want to leave the UK? What about the Orkneys and the Shetlands, which apparently also don't want to leave the UK? Which currency will Scotland have? What will back that currency? What part of the UK's national debt will Scotland agree to take on? Will there be a provision for Scotland to reapply for the Union?

It's horribly complicated and Alex Salmond has been extremely optimistic.

originally posted by: EvillerBob

originally posted by: theabsolutetruth
a reply to: Kester

Boris Johnson has his detractors but in this article he says a lot of things that needs saying.

www.telegraph.co.uk... er.html

Interesting article, though it really annoys the pedant in me when he says that Britain will no longer exist.

Britain = England + Wales
Great Britain = Britain + Scotland
UK = United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

If the Scots vote "Yes", then Britain will still be Britain, Great Britain would cease to exist as a political entity (though the expression may remain as a geographical term, similar to "British Isles" which includes the Republic of Ireland), and the UK would still be the UK (although UK would now be short for United Kingdom of Britain and Northern Ireland).

Now I've got that off my chest, I can relax...

fantastic from this post we can clearly assert by logic that, Britain = England + Wales , Great Britain = Britain + Scotland , therefore Scotland = GREAT !
we put the great in Britain
thanks pal

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

A republic would require a senate, a kingdom would facilitate the requirement of royalty I think the former would be more democratically appropriate.
The constitution would be drafted by the Scottish government elected by the people of Scotland.
The claims to the oilfields were set out in the international maritime boundary laws,
Would it apply to join NATO , would we want to join NATO , who wants to attack Scotland, who would we need defending against , Switzerland has done just fine through two world wars.
Faslane being a British military/naval base would likely see trident removed to British territorial waters outside of Scotland. There will likely be customs houses as we would have an international border as a sovereign nationand passport controls as we already have when you fly into Scotland.
If those parts of the border dont want to leave as with Orkney and Shetlands, they have the democratic right to vote as does every other Scot in the referendum.

Scotland will either use Sterling or create a new currency , Scotland would likey take a proportional amount of the debt based on our population and amount borrowed, alas I'm no economist I dont have all the financial answers, our economy will back the currency, just because most currencies are backed with oil, we too could back it with oil, much the same as Libya would do with the African dollar backed by Libyan oil (sadly we never found out the end to that story as mad dog was killed before he united Africa)
We have so far been told we would not be asked back to the union, and why would we its a failed union and failed democracy .

It is horribly complicated but Scotland have some incredibly smart people and we will together figure it out and we will mold and shape our country into something the world can be proud of.

a reply to: sapien82

And what of turning your backs on your Southern brothers and sisters, cousins, nephews, nieces, aunts and uncles? What of turning around and abandoning the rest of the country, most of whom suffer exactly the same economic hardships as those north of the border, all of whom suffer the same lack of representation in government as you do, no matter how near or far from the capital they live?

What of those you leave behind?

Without the support of the Scottish people, Westminster will never change to better suit the needs of the whole of the people, because there will never be the numbers, or the gumption, to see anything change. We are not better together as nations because the politicians think so. We are better together because as PEOPLE we have greater numbers as a unified people, than as a divided one, because only TOGETHER, in concert with one another, can we ever hope to remove the cancerous muck at the center of Whitehall, of Westminster, and create a government for the whole Kingdom which serves its people, rather than being served by them.

Leave aside the FACT that a politician is a politician, and that Salmond is no better a man than any of the total scum that run Westminster, no less of a hypocrite, no less of a self interested git than any MP in the Houses of Parliament. Leave aside the FACT that this division suits the powerful more than it does the powerless. What it also does, is abandon the people of the rest of the UK to a fate they could only ever have changed with your help, and as a person whose blood is sourced from all the four compass points of the realm, I have to say that I feel dismayed that my fellow Britons north of the border would even consider such retreat, such abandonment.

We need you folks in the fight for the soul of the nation, not turning tail and leaving it to be corrupted willy nilly by Westminster elitists, unelected morons in Whitehall, and corporate interests.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: eletheia

really thats how you see those allowed to vote at 16 ?

they are legally old enough to have sex and can be parents, can learn to drive , but cant think for themselves and their own futures enough to make an informed decision

your being ageist

They6 can also reproduce at 12 year old but does that make it right?

They cant hold a driving licence before 17 year old ?

They are not supposed to drink alcohol before 18 year old should that

be brought down to 16 year old too?

They are supposed to stay in education till 18 years old.

So you think its OK to be an alcoholic parent unable to drive and

still in education LOL!!!!

a reply to: eletheia

No I do not agree that 12 year olds should be having children sex maybe, thats their decision
underage drinking is something we all go through as teenagers and the responsibility is on the individual
and I dont think teenagers should be drinking to the extent we do in the UK it should be better approached
by parenting and no the alcohol license should be 18 as it has been
education well teenagers can leave school at 16 and work as its legal to do so
the state doesn't classify them as adults until 18

(none of the above has anything to do with their ability to think about their future and make informed decisions)

the point i'm making is that there are a large population of 16 year olds who do have their heads screwed on and are most liklely smarter than you or I , by excluding them you are potentially limiting the development of society
and your being ageist plain and simple

a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree that united we should stand but when the system doesn't work and it abuses the people its supposed to benefit then its time to remove that system and break it down and throw it away.
Scotland has the opportunity to better itself and it's people but at the same time shake up the system so that England , Wales and Norhern Ireland can say well if Scotland can why cant we
there is nothing to say that once a new system of governance is in place we can unite again and be stronger than before
but its too far gone now the Union has failed , we had a good run and now its time to close this chapter in British history and make new waves in the world.

There is plenty of space up here your all welcome to come live and work here.