CROAT56- I THINK YOU MIGHT BE BLOCK HEADED? LISTEN! NO ONE HAS TO BE BAPTISED TO GO ANYWHERE! WHERE DID THE THEIF ON THE CROSS GO? JESUS CLEARLY STATES THAT "TODAY, YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE " BAPTISM IS AN OUTWARD ACT OF AN INWARD CHOICE, LIKE A WEDDING RING...WHAT MAKES YOU MARRIED? THE RING? OR THE LICENCE?THE THOUGHT THAT, WE CAN OBTAIN RIGHTEOUSNESS BY AN ACT, IS TO SAY THAT JESUS WORK ON THE CROSS WAS NOT ULTIMATE! AND IT WAS.



Mod Comment: Please don't use ALL-CAP typing when posting to this board.

[edit on 23-1-2005 by kinglizard]

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I am not baptized? Will I be sent to purgatory?

Purgatory, according to the Roman Catholic church, is a place where souls are sent to remorse and be cleansed of their sins. What sins has an unborn child committed?

[edit on 1-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Water baptism does not save anyone. Water baptism is to be an outward sign of an inward condition. Babies baptised by the sprinkling of water do not have there sins(past present future) taken away. A baby, while they may not have committed a sin, is infected with the ability to sin and he or she will eventually sin. A baby that dies enters heaven. The only way to have your sins forgiven is to accept Jesus as Savior and Lord. Faith in Christ brings salvation. Everyone has an age of accountability and the Bible isn't clear if it's the same for all or different for all. Here is the truth, if you have heard of Jesus Christ and His substitutioanry sacrifice as payment for your sins, then you have had or do have or will have a choice to make. To accept or reject Christ. If you place your faith in Christ alone for salvation you will be with Christ at death and live forever with God. If you reject Christ at death you will be forever seperated from God.

Life begins at conception, so an aborted baby goes to be with the Lord.

[edit on 2-1-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by Croat56
Every1 is born with original sin. Being baptized cleanses you of the original sin. So if you are not baptized then you will go to pergatory. That is why unborn babies go to pergatory when they die. So sad.

Accepting Christ saves you, not water baptism.

There is no such place as purgatory!!!!!

[edit on 2-1-2005 by dbrandt]

Originally posted by riley
if Mother Teresa was not baptised.. would she go to heaven or purgetory?

The catholic denomination does not tell the truth about salvation. Sorry to be so blunt. If mother Theresa did not place her faith for salvation in Jesus Christ alone, she is right now in torment seperated from God for all eternity. If she based her salvation on the eucharist and what is meant by that she is lost. If she based it on good works, she is lost.

Faith in Jesus Christ alone for the remission of sins alone is why you are saved. After accepting Christ you will do good works because you are saved not to be saved.

Here is the truth, if you have heard of Jesus Christ and His substitutioanry sacrifice as payment for your sins, then you have had or do have or will have a choice to make. To accept or reject Christ.

Why do Christians always claim to "have the truth"? Their beliefs should be held no higher or truer than any other religious/spiritual beliefs because they are beliefs. Beliefs aren't facts or truths or anything of the sort. I don't know, maybe I'm being anal or maybe I'm just ornary, but we have Christianity pushed on us enough everywhere else in this country.

I guess my plea is this: Believe what you want, I guess, but don't assert your beliefs as truths; you can state them as the beliefs of your religion or ideas, but please don't "preach the truth" to this board.

Thank you

Christians make me feel like a grumpy and cantakorous old man

quote by dbrandt

if Mother Teresa was not baptised.. would she go to heaven or purgetory?

Yes, of course, Mother Teresa was baptised. I'm very sure that she is in heaven.

quote by riley.

The catholic denomination does not tell the truth about salvation.

What on earth are you talking about?

Faith in Jesus Christ alone for the remission of sins alone is why you are saved. After accepting Christ you will do good works because you are saved not to be saved.

Yes, I think that is about it.

Originally posted by Mahree

quote by dbrandt

if Mother Teresa was not baptised.. would she go to heaven or purgetory?

Yes, of course, Mother Teresa was baptised. I'm very sure that she is in heaven.

It says IF. Hypathetical.. read the whole thread and don't bother giving 'answers' if you don't understand what is being asked.

quote by riley.

The catholic denomination does not tell the truth about salvation.

What on earth are you talking about?

Not the brightest star in the sky are you? I DID NOT SAY IT. How dare you quote things I did not say and then have the gall to demand and explanation for it.



[edit on 28-1-2005 by riley]

My apologies to riley and dbrandt.

I did get your quotes mixed up.

Never mind. I will take myself out of here. Again, my apologies.

Yeah- I'm sorry too. I should have realised it was unintentional.

Back to my original question though- [remembering I haven't been to this thread for a while]
Mother Teresa's actions alone should qualify her for heaven.. but apparently if she were not baptised she'd got go to hell.
If someone did as much 'good' as she did, yet had no exposure to christianity and so remained unchristened.. would she not qualify for heaven considering baptism is a human action?

This is why I find the Church's dogmatic claims incredulous and is a perfect example of the type of power the Church holds/is trying to hold over the populous. "If you don't make a physical gesture (baptism) within our walls then you will be eternally damned. No it doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus Christ and what he did for you, you must physically enter the Church and succumb to our power." Whether I believe in what "Jesus Christ did in order for me to be 'saved" is a subject for a whole new thread.

I do not have faith in or believe in a god or jesus. My wife on the other hand does but doesn't go to church every sunday and we don't discuss these things because we have our own beliefs and don't force. Anyway she wanted our daughter to get baptised and set up godparents so I agreed because I don't believe in any of it anyway and my daughter can make her own choice when she's old enough to figure out the truth. Well we took her to the church to meet the priest and he would'nt do either the baptism or godparents unless we all went to church every sunday and the chosen godparents did the same. So he was forcing us to do as he wished or he wouldn't do it. To make a long story short we walked out and my daughter is not baptised and has no godparents(doesn't bother me in the least) and my wife lost a lot of faith, hasn't been to church since. I think she's starting to see my points about that day.

Originally posted by I See You
To make a long story short we walked out and my daughter is not baptised and has no godparents(doesn't bother me in the least) and my wife lost a lot of faith, hasn't been to church since. I think she's starting to see my points about that day.

I am sorry that your attempt to have your daughter baptized was such a disappointment to you and your wife.

We had a baptism in our church today. Yes, a baptism does included promising to bring the child up within the faith community. As a Catholic I feel that it doesn't make much sense to baptize a child, take away original sin, if we are not going to educate that child on how to avoid personal sin. So that would involve going to Mass, Catholic education of the child, like Sunday school, and taking part in the many community social events that foster help in avoiding personal sin.
As a church community today at that baptism we welcomed this tiny little girl, free from sin and innocent into our faith community. It was very beautiful.