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Report: The 'Sovereign Citizen Movement' is The Greatest Threat To American Security

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posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:34 AM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

He made it up. I was there that day.




posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 02:02 AM
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a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Excellent post and yes, I agree, that they have been failing. Groups such as the Sovereign Citizens wouldn't be gaining traction if there was actually some sort of active resolution of issues within the government and its regulatory agencies. The core of the problem is that much of what has occurred within both has made for very comfortable situations for a variety of very powerful entities. Some of the agencies (SEC, and the former MMA) have been attempting to "clean house" on a variety of levels but issues such as the "revolving door" and other sources of conflict of interest have been hard to overcome. Whether the public would find these efforts to be a positive step in the right direction or not is questionable, however, as they really aren't getting reported on much. I find that kind of interesting personally.

Overall, I do think that the responses have been abysmal to any disgruntled groups or even individuals in the US. Typically, it seems like they are better at pouring gas on the issues as opposed to stamping out any potential fires. That's really not good at all. The fact that Sovereign groups are gaining precedence is no great surprise under those circumstances. States rights v. federal rights is a tale as old as time in this country and the two very first political parties were classified along those lines--federalists--those who supported a centralized federal government and the anti-federalists--those that supported state governance and nominal unification. Really, the Sovereign movement is essentially the Anti-Federalist party reborn in a way with a tendency towards a kooky twist.

The problem with the Sovereign movement was that what they want is actually what existed in the Articles of Confederation, which was eventually by the ratified US Constitution that we all know. There was a number of reasons why the states opted to ratify for a centralized federal government and some of those reasons can be found in The Federalist Papers. Really, if Bundy is both utilizing the Constitution while dismissing the legitimacy of the federal government, then he's really picking and choosing what he wants from the aforementioned document including the first two Articles that basically establish said federal government. Hence why I say the "kooky twist".

All in all, it's not good in the slightest. There's a reason why we created much of the federal government that exists today. Not all of it is good, much of it is overrun by people whose interests are questionable but the purpose of these things are all there for a reason. I'd like to see some politicians actually not just say that they are going to start cleaning house but actually do it. It's what we need in this country.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 02:04 AM
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a reply to: LDragonFire

From an online FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin about the Sovereign Citizens (SC):


Sovereign citizens [(SC)]do not represent an anarchist group, nor are they a militia, although they sometimes use or buy illegal weapons. Rather, they operate as individuals without established leadership and only come together in loosely affiliated groups to train, help each other with paperwork, or socialize and talk about their ideology. They may refer to themselves as “constitutionalists” or “freemen,” which is not necessarily a connection to a specific group, but, rather, an indication that they are free from government control.

Link FBI: Sovereign Citizens


... So... The SC doesn't actually exist as an organization? Basically, they're just random people who have loose, unorganized affiliations (sometimes; maybe) out of common interest in the constitution? Fine, I'll bite. Being largely unaffiliated random people and all, a few of them did some pretty bad things. Then how do we find them?

Fortunately, that same FBI bulletin gives us a red flag list.


Several indicators can help identify
these individuals.

* References to the Bible, The Constitution of the United States, U.S. Supreme Court decisions, or treaties with foreign governments.

* Personal names spelled in all capital letters or interspersed with colons (e.g., JOHN SMITH or Smith: John).

* Signatures followed by the words “under duress,” “Sovereign Living Soul” (SLS), or a copyright symbol (©).

* Personal seals, stamps, or thumb prints in red ink.

* The words “accepted for value”.

Link FBI: Sovereign Citizens


At the top of the red flag list you have Christianity, constitution-believers, the political awareness.

In correlation with the OP, does that mean that politically aware Christians who support the constitution are potentially the biggest threat to America?
edit on 982014 by JohnFisher because: spelling correction: lose to loose



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 03:24 AM
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originally posted by: WhiteAlice

Ummm, just a little question but where in the world do you get the idea that the girl getting pepper sprayed in the face has ANYTHING to do with curfew laws? I was actually down there that day on other business. What was occurring was those protesters were actually actively protesting the banks and were basically, marching down to a variety of banks, doing some chalk drawings, few minutes of protest and then moving on to the next bank. What happened next was a mounted police officer started using his horse to push into the group of protesters and one protester, presumably out of fear, swung out. Bam, pepper spray.



That's how it happened. That's the actual context.


Ooookaaaayy. I was just using the curfew law as an example and I wasn't saying the protest was because of curfew laws. I used the picture as a symbolic example of big government and mentioned curfew laws as an actual example of big government not describing the events of the picture.


Gosh darn devil is in those details because golly, those darn liberals were protesting the banks and their gosh darn federal bail outs being spent on bonuses. Logic abounds.


Okay. But, just because liberals were protesting a legitimate cause doesn't mean liberals don't support big government.


Curfew, what a laugh.
I suppose you failed to notice that the photo is a daytime photo. Happened around 1 pm iirc. I saw the line of riot police and got out of dodge.


Hopefully you don't fail to notice that I wasn't relating the picture to Ferguson (except as two different examples of big government) and that I wasn't saying the two were the same event.
edit on 8-9-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 03:32 AM
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originally posted by: WhiteAlice
a reply to: Sremmos80

He made it up. I was there that day.


I didn't make anything up. You're wrongly believing I was saying the picture was of Ferguson.

"Wants big government" "More government". That's a valid point. Liberals vote for big government. Then, they get sprayed in the face by them and fight them. Like I said, "there's no such thing as liberal logic".



Don't wrongly believe this is a picture of a rioter like you misinterpreted my last posts.
edit on 8-9-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:10 AM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: smithjustinb

Do you ever watch fox news?
I agree this ed guy is like the bill of MSNBC, but if you can't stand MSNBC then you need to understand that fox news is the other side of that coin. They both are on their far side their respected spectrum of the political scale.

And nice picture that makes 0 sense btw





You did not understand the picture.........The youth of today scream out about tolerance and freedom all the while supporting the very people taking it away. Fools they are.


Progressive filth control both political parties. Individual liberty is giving way to the liberty of the masses. Many of the occupy protestors supported Communism...........Hint,Hint......Communism is a progressives dream. They are all oligarchies and is why the founding fathers gave us a republic.
edit on 8-9-2014 by SubTruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:14 AM
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originally posted by: SubTruth
Communism is a progressives dream. They are all oligarchies and is why the founding fathers gave us a republic.


Democracy is the road to socialism.

-Karl Marx



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:20 AM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: SubTruth
Communism is a progressives dream. They are all oligarchies and is why the founding fathers gave us a republic.


Democracy is the road to socialism.

-Karl Marx





Yep...... Democracy is a bad thing and why the US was not founded as one. Socialism,Communism,Fascism are all oligarchies. If you do not know what that word is please look it up and understand what it truly means.


We currently in the US live in a banking oligarchy controlled by central banks. The Democratic and Republican parties are both controlled by the same people at the top. Only the fools and romantics at the bottom argue back and forth. They have sold the progressive mindset over time and are reaping the apathy and ignorance it always brings.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:22 AM
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a reply to: MystikMushroom

Hello Mushroom. I am what you might refer to as a soverign citizen.
I think you'll find that there are people who read the law and understand that their rights are being trampled upon and stand up for those rights. And then there are people like you. Ignorant and enslaved.

The people's courts were hijacked and turned into a revenue raising franchise for the Bar Association/police.
All under the all seing eye of the Masonic Lodge casting its witchcraft over every court in every town in the protestant world.
Witchcraft that obviously works on most people. People like you.

I don't think inconveniencing this criminal enterprise is such a bad thing. But then I have principles and live by them.

Anyhow, that isn't the purpose for joining this forum. I just happened to read your ignorant drivel and was sickened to my stomach by it.

The reason I joined was to share with people that police have a device hidden in a random breath tester. Some kind of a spiralling wire. visibly. but in effect a needle.
This is the old fashioned RBT device with a mouthpiece, not the new laser one.

I refused a random breath test whilst protesting unlawful government by refusing to register my car with it,
(or being a nuisance soverign citizen to galoots like you)
and as I pulled my head away as the cop pushed it towards my mouth I noticed a wire spiralling out of the mouth piece.

I was arrested and my hands were cuffed behind my back. And I noticed later theyd injected me on the forearm. Leaving a 5mm raised blood blister . (later identified by prison nurse as needlestick injury).
That was novemver 2013 I now have skin cancers and bowel cancer. Which I'm assuming it caused.

So everyone be very wary of police and these random breath testers. I am a troublemaker in that I stand up for my rights, so I received special attention, but these things are out there and being used.

NOTE: the thin line leading into the bloodblister under the skin- the needle track - was about 15 mm long. I did not feel the injection.
I did not feel any sensation from the injury itself. No pain, no itch, nothing.

If they inject you in the mouth you would never know.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: isaih

Oh my! You caught us (LEO)!

How did you figure out we (LEO) have hidden cancer injectors inside the breathalyzer devices we use?!

You sir are very "awake." I applaud you...



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: smithjustinb

Do you ever watch fox news?
I agree this ed guy is like the bill of MSNBC, but if you can't stand MSNBC then you need to understand that fox news is the other side of that coin. They both are on their far side their respected spectrum of the political scale.


Both sides of the same coin like good vs. evil. The coin is irrelevant.


And nice picture that makes 0 sense btw


It makes perfect sense. Liberals vote for more government and then when they're getting pepper sprayed in the face for breaking "curfew" laws and other liberal nonsense over regulation, they get mad and blame republicans. smh. There's no such thing as liberal logic.


You saying that liberals vote for more government is a half truth. The last time "conservatives" had control they greatly increased the size of the government. Where do you think homeland security came from here's a hint it didn't come from the liberals. It came from the so called conservatives that put everything on a credit card and passed it to the next administration because they didn't want to pay their bills.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: isaih



Hello Mushroom. I am what you might refer to as a soverign citizen. I think you'll find that there are people who read the law and understand that their rights are being trampled upon and stand up for those rights. And then there are people like you. Ignorant and enslaved.

What rights have you lost? What rights of yours has been trampled upon?


All under the all seing eye of the Masonic Lodge casting its witchcraft over every court in every town in the protestant world. Witchcraft that obviously works on most people. People like you.

If you are looking for Harry Potter to save you it isn't going to happen.


Anyhow, that isn't the purpose for joining this forum. I just happened to read your ignorant drivel and was sickened to my stomach by it.

What Mushroom posted is the truth most of these so called sovereign citizens are deadbeats like that bum Bundy.They don't want to support the laws of this country but have no problem using everything they can get from this country. If these bums don't want to hold up their end of the bargain then they need to pack their bags and get out.


The reason I joined was to share with people that police have a device hidden in a random breath tester. Some kind of a spiralling wire. visibly. but in effect a needle. This is the old fashioned RBT device with a mouthpiece, not the new laser one. I refused a random breath test whilst protesting unlawful government by refusing to register my car with it, (or being a nuisance soverign citizen to galoots like you) and as I pulled my head away as the cop pushed it towards my mouth I noticed a wire spiralling out of the mouth piece.

It's not unusual for people to see things that really aren't there when under the influence of alcohol.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: SubTruth
Communism is a progressives dream. They are all oligarchies and is why the founding fathers gave us a republic.


Democracy is the road to socialism.

-Karl Marx

What's wrong with Socialism? Some of the happiest and most well off nations on the planet are Socialist. Look what capitalism has done to this nation. It has run it into a hole we can never climb out of.


(post by JohnPhoenix removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: LDragonFire
oh I hate hitting submit prematurely!!



You do realize that there's an EDIT button, don't you?



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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I believe that the Sovereign Citizen movement is perceived as a threat by police because of the recent murder of a policeman by Sovereign Citizens

Here is another one
And another one

So it seems that some people associated with the Sovereign Citizen movement like to shoot cops. No wonder the cops perceive them as a threat



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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While I am familiar with the incident where a 'Sovereign' militia type shot and killed a police officer during a traffic stop, I think the overall threat is greatly exaggerated not unlike the threat of 'terror cells' within the US was and still is(though very few believe that terror cells are truly a threat in the States anymore).

It seems like the cowboys need a new public enemy boogie man to justify the expanding powers of the police state, that is my take on these kind of reports.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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Sovereign Citizens ARE a huge threat. I mean... Look at them...



Oh, wait. You meant self-entitled, overly privileged white folks whining about their government... My bad.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:54 AM
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I would agree with you

The Sovereign Citizen movement is a scam. If you have assets and decide to be a Sovereign Citizen, you will lose all you have.

The only people who make money on this are the hustlers who peddle this tripe.

a reply to: jrod



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: Wildbob77

Not much different than the plethora of established gangs in the US. If anything I see the sovereigns as much less of a threat than them.

What I do not like is the 'Flags' the FBI has issued LEOs to be on the lookout for. To me this is a bigger threat to the US than the so called sovereign movement.
edit on 8-9-2014 by jrod because: islandtypos




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