The Myth of the Spiritual Hierarchy

a reply to: Aphorism. Everywhere you look in this 3 dimensional world you see hierarchies, so why would this cease to exist in the "subtler" realms (astral, etheric,causal, etc)?

Higher and lower are relative terms. You could say further along the Path instead of higher. Someone who has built the true solar bodies (solar astral, solar mental and solar causal) and eliminated all of his/her defects is further along the Path and is no longer subject to the Bavachakra (Wheel of Becoming) also known as the Wheel of Suffering that is the mechanical return / reincarnation to this Earth.

For one who seeks to become a Master of the White Lodge (I.e. Walk the path of the razor's edge) it is better to listen to a Buddha, resurrected Master, Alchemist, etc. than consult ordinary psychics, spiritualists, voodoo practitioners, etc.

When the Buddha said his highest achievement was becoming Human he was stating that we are all intellectual animals and have not reached the level of the true Human Being. As Master Samael Aun Weor states, 97% of our Being is trapped in the legions of egos we have created over many lifetimes. If we wish to truly awaken our consciousness on all 49 levels of existence then we must meditate on these egos, comprehend them thoroughly and then annihilate them and thereby free up that part of our Essence that was locked up in the defect. The average person speculates on the body type of "aliens" (e.g. Reptilian). The Human form is the highest "material" form on this plane of existence. As the Lakota Sioux like to say Mitakyue Oyasin - We are all Related.

We intellectual animals were once Angels (a long time ago). However we were not cognizant / fully aware of our divinity. Therefore we started a long process of involution into matter and then a long evolution back up through the material kingdoms. In this way we are gaining awareness (through the experience of matter) and mastery of the various kingdoms both gross and subtle.

However you do have a choice. You can use your Will to walk the razor's edge - the Path of Mastery and eventual Buddhahood or you can continue to feed your egos and remain trapped in a continuous cycle of return that Nature oversees. If you are indifferent to these two paths then there is no higher or lower.

a reply to: Klipothian

Everywhere you look in this 3 dimensional world you see hierarchies

In all likelyhood, this says less about reality and more about the creature perceiving it.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

Harbinger - What is Reality? Everything depends on one's perspective. All is Maya (illusion). The only.objective Truth is the "abstract absolute space / motion" that Blavatsky speaks of in the Secret Doctrine. For those who attempt to walk a Spiritual Path there exists a spiritual hierarchy. For those whose Conciousness encompasses the 3 dimensional materialistic universe only, a spiritual hierarchy does not fit in their world view and they have no way of directly perceiving it.

a reply to: Klipothian

Everywhere you look in this 3 dimensional world you see hierarchies, so why would this cease to exist in the "subtler" realms (astral, etheric,causal, etc)?

That is not true.

However you do have a choice. You can use your Will to walk the razor's edge - the Path of Mastery and eventual Buddhahood or you can continue to feed your egos and remain trapped in a continuous cycle of return that Nature oversees. If you are indifferent to these two paths then there is no higher or lower.

"Walk the razor's edge"... It sounds so romantic. "Path of Mastery"—mastery of what? Everything you've mentioned in favor of your paths sound cool, but underneath are quite meaningless, and rely on a mish-mash of dusty ancient doctrines to makes any sense, all from which no fruit besides personal self-gratification and vanity has ever come.

However you do have a choice: we can apply reason to that which we are able and that which we are unable and live our lives accordingly. If we were to continue applying reason to that which we cannot, the quickest route to "buddhahood" is suicide. If one does it in every cycle, they are basically spinning the wheel of samsara themselves.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: Klipothian

Everywhere you look in this 3 dimensional world you see hierarchies, so why would this cease to exist in the "subtler" realms (astral, etheric,causal, etc)?

"That is not true."

So you are saying there are no hierarchies in this material world? Everything that we perceive or describe uses a hierarchical system - e.g. Gradations of light, heat, mass, speed, color, texture, etc.


Mastery of the inner Being. What you call a mish-mash of dusty ancient doctrines I call a living synthesis of Teachings. These teachings are clues, signposts that we must put in practice in order to experience the true gnosis of these teachings. If one who seeks only attains "personal self-gratification and vanity" then they have not eliminated their egos / defects. The goal is to awaken the consciousness on all levels of reality. To consciously experience the astral, ethereal, etc. To harness the kriashakti energy, to command the elementals, to become a God. If this is meaningless to you then I leave you to worship your science of materialism and I hope that someday science invents a device that reverses Karma so that you do not have to suffer the eventual pendulum swing.

a reply to: Klipothian

So you are saying there are no hierarchies in this material world? Everything that we perceive or describe uses a hierarchical system - e.g. Gradations of light, heat, mass, speed, color, texture, etc.

Gradations do not imply a hierarchy. Besides, I was speaking about it in the context of humans to be specific. Nowhere did I say there are no hierarchies in the grand sense. I only said the structures of spiritual hierarchies are a myth based on the false sense of purity, authority etc. if you might have read what I wrote.

hierarchy |ˈhī(ə)ˌrärkē|
noun (pl. hierarchies)
a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority.
• (the hierarchy) the upper echelons of a hierarchical system; those in authority: the magazine was read quite widely even by some of the hierarchy.
• an arrangement or classification of things according to relative importance or inclusiveness: a taxonomic hierarchy of phyla, classes, orders, families, genera, and species.
• (the hierarchy) the clergy of the Catholic or Episcopal Church; the religious authorities.
• Theology the traditional system of orders of angels and other heavenly beings.

Mastery of the inner Being. What you call a mish-mash of dusty ancient doctrines I call a living synthesis of Teachings. These teachings are clues, signposts that we must put in practice in order to experience the true gnosis of these teachings. If one who seeks only attains "personal self-gratification and vanity" then they have not eliminated their egos / defects. The goal is to awaken the consciousness on all levels of reality. To consciously experience the astral, ethereal, etc. To harness the kriashakti energy, to command the elementals, to become a God. If this is meaningless to you then I leave you to worship your science of materialism and I hope that someday science invents a device that reverses Karma so that you do not have to suffer the eventual pendulum swing.

What I worship is the earth and life, my friend; that is my only crime. In other words, I do not suffer on the pendulum swing. I enjoy it, and wish to inflict change on its shortcomings. Even so, I cannot find the time to base my conduct on the promise that there is a pendulum swing at all.

Be careful with your blind classifications of people you do not know. This is the nature of all spiritual hierarchies: judgements made in abstracto, with little to no evidence available to make a reasonable judgement. Your gnosis fails you in every respect.

Whatever consciousnesses and energies those stuck on the spiritual ladder wish to harness, and whatever makes them a god, I'd wish they'd do it. We await these gods, and have waited for millennia. No one wishes to stop them. In fact, if humanity's propensity towards religion is any indication, it is explicitly welcomed. But until they use their godlike special powers for some meaningful change in the world, anything besides their own personal quests for "gnosis", then they have accomplished nothing of note, and it is no wonder they are kicked from Samsara's wheel like dry mud. They refuse the gift of life after spitting on it.

Someone becomes a God, and then does what? I implore you to name one positive effect on the world delivered by those whom have synthesised "Teachings" besides providing a mental protection racket for minds fearful of the world. Those who have followed "sign posts" have followed it to absolutely nothing but self-gratification, without one single positive change in states of affairs. If anything, their accomplishments have been wholly negative. Spirituality, however, has the power to step up to the plate, but it is unrealized in those who follow the mistakes of anti-social ascetic hermits, and blunders profusely under the guidance of your masters.

a reply to: Aphorism

Ahh.. Now I understand. You await the Gods to save you from the wretchedness of this world we call Earth. I am sorry to say that you will always be waiting. This Earth is one of many that have come and gone through countless rounds and races and manvantaras. It is a proving ground, a test pit, a gymnasium if you will. The Gods who were once like us but in ages long ago, left us teachings to assist us as we build up our spiritual muscles. Sometimes they send a messenger to reveal a step we overlooked but most often they send us ordeals that we must overcome.

There is no pill, no wafer, no blessing, earthly baptism or technology that will save us. Only the inner Divine Being can spur us on to do the long, hard and difficult Work necessary to graduate from this materialistic school we call Earth.

You ask - once you become a God then what? Part of the Path is to sacrifice for humanity. This does not mean buy everyone a new house and car. It does not mean put an end to war. The laws of Karma are immutable. It means that we shine a light for those who seek. We teach the Path to those who follow. We assist those who falter.

However there are higher (oops, Beings further along the Path who might sometimes be called Masters or archangels or Planetary Genii) Beings that carry out the unfolding plan of the universe who may be involved in assistance, punishment, etc. on the earthly or other dimension according to Karmic and universal laws. Some are involved in creating new worlds or new vehicles for Beings to incarnate in. These Beings reside in subtler realms have vast resources of energy at their disposal and are mostly pure awareness. Most inhabitants of Earth call these Beings - aliens and think that they need flying saucers to move about the universe. We are the aliens, we are the ones who have forgotten that we are all related and that all is energy and awareness.

a reply to: Klipothian

I was trying to speak your language, with a little Irony (and arbitrary capitalization) of course. No one awaits gods. I just wish to see if the fruits of your teachings will satisfy anyone but yourself.

The “laws of karma” are not laws; that is their Contradiction. Karma means “Action”—that is if you trust the Language it comes from. Prove yourself through action, not through Rhetoric. Become your god if need be and finally go to work. If memory serves me correctly, resigning from the World is not necessarily an action, but a negation of it. Us mortals call it laziness.

Beings of “pure awareness” are the same as beings of pure nothing. The term is quite meaningless and empty, and it has zero correlation to anything at all besides the metaphorical ideas in perhaps some obscure writings. These writings, of course, are littered with mundane contradiction and paradox, something we might hope a “Master” might find the godlike fortitude to do without for once, that is if he wasn't trying to hard to seduce the thought-poor with feigned profundity. Empty verbiage is lucrative. I suppose its fortunate to be payed in this world before you get off in the next.

a reply to: Klipothian

What I was trying to get you too consider was the idea that people see a hierarchy only because they expect it to be a hierarchy.

But instead I get preaching.
Ah well.

One thing that gets me about spiritualists is how self congratulatory they are.

Clueless materialists shouldn't really profess to know anything about the Buddha, your interpretation is flawed in so many ways it's not even funny. Buddha DID recognize spiritual hierarchies whether you believe it or not is of no concern.

You're like the Buddhist Atheists that try to reinterpret a religion they can't bring themselves to understand, "I've never experienced the supernatural or the profound, therefore it must be an aphorism or fake".

You scorn the path, do not have discipline enough to walk it, yet you profess to know what it is about.

I don't know how you can be arrogant enough to keep writing these tedious threads without even having tried out any of the traditions earnestly, and no, reading a book does not count. Though, supposedly you have already achieved enlightenment, but grew tired of it.

Your uninformed opinion is obviously misinformed to the practicioner.

This is akin to me walking into a physics department starting to vociferously promote my own version of physics, without ever having read a single book on physics, mentally hilarious I'd say.

Keep on trying champ.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

First, let’s make it quite clear, no one is walking any path. I do not scorn paths or walking. I am actually quite an avid hiker. It’s no use to make it sound romantic. There is no path. No one is setting forth on some journey, for that involves actually going outside and walking. A better analogy would be “sitting on the sideline”. It makes much more sense. What you are actually doing is way different than what you say you are doing.

So you’ve experienced the supernatural… Now what? Go experience it a thousand times more. Now what? You profess to hold the keys to the universe or some divine knowledge. Now what? Nothing I suppose? Is this lazy and metaphoric rhetoric all that has ever come of this divine knowledge? These are the most anti-climactic assertions, and they have never resulted in anything more than a fart in the wind. But don’t worry; keep yelling it. Someone is bound to believe you.

a reply to: Aphorism

Laughing God makes very valid points which you do not address. The Path is here on this Earth. It requires an immense amount of willpower. We do not withdraw from life, Earth or daily life. On the contrary we often put ourselves in some of the most unfavorable circumstances so that we can undergo ordeals.

As Laughing God pointed out it is clear you have not set foot on the Path or if you did then you did not walk far. For if you had you would not sate that it does not exist. When I discuss the astral world i speak from Gnosis (experience). I taught myself to travel in the astral when I was 13 back in 1972. I do not ask you to "believe" or have "faith". I ask you to try it and experience it for yourself. Duke University has scientific studies that corroborate the separation of the consciousness from the body for periods of time.

Your whole premise seems to be: I have not done any work towards spiritual awakening, have not studied under a Master but I have read a few New Age / Mystical texts that didn't resonate with me and therefore I reject all spiritual teachings and will cling to my materialism.

a reply to: Klipothian

I could not rationally deny your experience, only your account of it. Behind the overly empty language, it sounds no more profound than a narcotic trip or fever, an experience one might have in various stages of sleep, exhaustion or disease.

Attempting to reach various hypnotic states while half asleep is fine, however it is obvious none of it translates to waking life. Frankly, none of what you say about your hypnotic dream-states sound that compelling. The funny thing is, there are as many anecdotal accounts about the “true” truth and the “real” reality as there are people who have these experiences, and they are all different, save for the promises. Why are you and others of the hypnotized variety unable to keep your stories straight? You all say you reach “gnosis” and understanding about the nature of reality, yet every account is obscenely different. How is this possible if all of you are viewing the same “real” reality? It almost sounds as if you are having different dreams about the same expectations—but that would be too simple, wouldn’t it?

If empty anecdotal accounts of mystical experiences is all your spirituality has to offer, then we really have nothing to talk about, and I suggest you might try peddling your “gnosis” in the astral realm. Your spiritual currency to which you so wantonly cling is worthless here.

a reply to: TheLaughingGod

I know that "the" Buddha is a historical person.
Or at least from the best I can tell.
And that he affected spiritual ideas in the Far East region of the globe.
Beyond that I don't "know" crap.
And neither do you if you were at all honest with yourself or me.
Because you see, we weren't there.
All we have is stories and traditions passed down over thousands of year.

We see what we want to see.
Look at it this way, all those spiritual beliefs you disagree with.
They're just as believed in as your's.

Which suggests a truth you will not accept.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: HarryJoy

I completely understand where you are coming from...although I do believe that there is a spiritual hierarchy. Jesus said " He that will be "Geatest" among you will be servant of "ALL". And also " Love your enemies and do good to those that despitefully use you that you may be perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect'. And lastly "Take up your cross deny yourself and follow me". There is a spiritual hierarchal order it is just not one that the temporal or carnally centered individual will want to participate in. When we are able to view these matters from an energy development perspective and to see the value of establishing contrast ( In the spiritual/quantum realm) by applying those principles we will begin to willingly submit and surrender to the process of self-crucifixion.



Harry

Nothing written that was attributed to Jesus was written until multiple generations after he allegedly lived by people who never witnessed him saying anything. In fact, there is zero contemporaneous documentation (ie. historical evidence) proving that he lived.

You make statements about things that you cannot validate as though they are fact. None of us living today ( who are not scholars or historians with direct access to verified writings ) could reasonably defend or reject the writings referring to Jesus. It largely hinges on the searchers own inclinations and desires as to whether they want to accept them as validation for Jesus. I will say this much regarding the evidence for Jesus. I personally find that it would require more faith to believe that a man fitting the description of Jesus did not live then to believe that he did live.

The very fact that belief in him has persisted to this day and so prevalantly ...is strong evidence of his existence ( Where there is smoke there is fire ) The fact that multiple writers wrote stories about a man named Jesus and those stories are remarkably similar is also very strong evidence for there being a basis for them ( No matter how long after the fact) And also the evidence that some of the accounts were written within a generation of his purported existence is stronger then the evidence that they were written later then that.

Having said that, I find that faith is required to take a position on ANY event or findings that we ourselves have not personally witnessed or verified through scientific means. It is all about which avenues we choose to exercise our faith in and that imo hinges on our own personal desires and goals or lack thereof. We can only strive to remain as open minded and unbiased as our characters will allow. Apologies to the OP for deviating from the true subject of the thread. But I felt it necessary to address this assertion

Harry

a reply to: HarryJoy

I personally find that it would require more faith to believe that a man fitting the description of Jesus did not live then to believe that he did live.

Really? It's easier for you to believe a man was born of from a virgin who claimed that "GOD" impregnated her? It's easier to believe this man/god really did walk on water, raise the dead, fed thousands of hungry people from almost nothing, and then, as grand gesture, the man/god that he was, he had himself murdered by traitors, so that he could use himself as one last bloody human sacrifice to himself, to save us from the hell he created? Then, of course, he rode from the dead, and finally, he flew off in a cloud, promising to return again.

Really? That's easier to believe than to think that it probably isn't true?

The very fact that belief in him has persisted to this day and so prevalantly ...is strong evidence of his existence

The fact that so many still blindly believe is a testament to the fear and coercion the sword of Christ brought to the world, leaving a trail of genocide behind. Anyone who didn't say they believed died.

a reply to: windword

As I said... For me personally it is easier to believe that a man fitting the description of Jesus lived. As far as all the things you referenced. I cannot say that these things could not be true anymore than I could prove that they are. Do you believe in levitation?? There are modern day references and video evidences of people levitating...and yet if it were written in a book almost 2,000yrs old most people would probably reject it as fallacy.
Now in regard to atrocities commited in the name of Christianity. I cannot deny that many have perverted the religion of Christ and have forced their beliefs upon the unwilling. Yet this can be said of possibly ALL belief systems. By the same token there are probably innumerable good deeds that have been done in the name of Christ as well. Even if the teachings of Christ are righteous and pure....they are being interpreted by the darkened minds of humanity and misinterpretation is sure to occur.

Harry

a reply to: HarryJoy

As I said... For me personally it is easier to believe that a man fitting the description of Jesus lived. As far as all the things you referenced. I cannot say that these things could not be true anymore than I could prove that they are.

What is that description? Without the miracles, the description of Jesus is just a man with a message. Certainly plenty of men fitting that description lived.

I cannot deny that many have perverted the religion of Christ and have forced their beliefs upon the unwilling. Yet this can be said of possibly ALL belief systems.

No, not all belief systems but, all Abrahamic belief systems. The Christians had a good blue print to follow.

I10 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. 12 If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. 13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. 15 This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby. 16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 17 Completely destroy them--the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites--as the LORD your God has commanded you.

a reply to: windword

I will reference a quote by C S Lewis. If Jesus was not who he claimed to be ( Son of God ) then he has no more credibility then a man claiming to be a poached egg. If you walk around today "saying" all the same types of things as Jesus did do you think people will be talking about you 2,000 yrs from now ? No... I doubt very seriously that they would.... as they would be too busy talking about all the other people walking around "saying" the same types of things as Jesus. My point is... if he didn't have the works to back up the words we would know nothing about him today.

Regarding the rest of your post. As cruel and hardened as this may sound ....do you think it is better to deal with a problem in its infancy or wait until it has blossomed into the full blown chaotic brutality that we have today ? Is it better to remove 10,000 people today and save 1,000,000 tomorrow or just wait and let the 1,000,000 be killed so it can be more fun ? Now I know that sounds very cold...yet is such a scenario not only possible but likely ?

Harry