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Finland Wants to Join Russia

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posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
Wow, i couldn´t believe this would be posted in ATS as its an Russian propaganda

For your information, Finland will never join Russia. We have had two wars against Russia and we were able to keep our inpendence which WE VALUE ALOT !



Yes, I know it is propaganda. That's why I said, "The article is clearly for domestic consumption, ..." I also explained some of the historical tensions between Finland and Russia already, and explained why I thought the article was noteworthy.
Thank you for providing another native voice, however




posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: MrSpad

Compulsory military service in Finland apply to all finnish males from age 18 to 60. Military service is mandatory. If the SHTF there is over 900,000 available reserve.


Yes but I assume if Russia were to try such a thing they would do it quickly before reserves could be called out while dropping paras/Special forces and using air strikes to create chaos and make rolling out the reserves in an organized manner very hard. The key part of any Russian invasion would fall to Finlands active forces. Which are far more mobile than Russia's along with being better trained and equiped, they would be able to fight a delaying action hitting and hurting Russian forces and pulling out before they could be hit back at and then doing the same thing over. Key to Finlands lasting in the early days would be its airforce with its 60 plus F-18s and its SAM systems. Russia failed to ever get air superiority over Georgia and would find Finland a much harder nut to crack in that area. Not to mention NATO airpower would arrive literaly over night. And with that advantage Finland should be able to hold until its reserves and NATO forces could arrive to push the Russians out.

Although what the Fins should fear is not an all out invasion but, Russia just taking a small piece. Getting them out when they could concentrate forces in one small area would not be easy. And while an all out invasion would very likely bring NATO in, a small land grab might not. Since Finland is not a NATO member its defense would not be automatic and thus subject to a vote and if one of the 28 NATO members did not think war with Russia worth it for small piece of Finlands territory, we could end up with another situation like Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova. And that is the game Russia plays. Taking small parts of the countries around it betting a full scale war will not be worth it.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 05:06 PM
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a reply to: MrSpad

The real fear would be a repeat of Georgia and the Ukraine operations. Foment a "revolution" and then "support" them, either blatantly or through maskirovka and then dare NATO to respond. Are NATO nations willing to go to war against Russia for a murky situation in Finland? We already know they are apparently not willing to go in for Georgia and the Ukraine. Why not try again?
Again, I'm not advocating military intervention in the Ukraine. I'm just presenting reality as I see it. I think the Russians would have their handful in Finland, but nature abhors a vacuum, and Putin is a power player. He understands the West's desire to avoid armed conflict, and he's going to use it to full advantage. Would he invade Finland? I don't think so, but I didn't think he'd get so heavily and directly involved in the Ukraine either.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 05:35 PM
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originally posted by: deckdel
1,500 km of common border with Russia call for common sense in diplomacy and good relations - something which is not that clear concepts back in Brussels. But joining Russia - why?



I agree, that a common sense approach should dominate Finnish foreign policy, but how far is Finland willing to bend for the Russians? To date they've done a good job of convincing Russia that their economy is tied to both East and West, and that as a major trade partner it is better for Russia that Finland maintain a strong and free economy (through ties to the West). Russia will continue to bend its neighbors to its will through intimidation. It is curious in light of events in the Ukraine and Georgia in particular, that Russia is planting the seed (at least in the minds of the homefront) that Finland wants to be integrated with Russia again.
That's the newsworthy part of the article, in my opinion. Everyone knows that Finland is not really interested in Russian integration.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 05:40 PM
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I thought Stalin invaded Finland?



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: HUMBLEONE

Maybe Vlad thinks he can do better than ol' Iosif...



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: _Del_

This goes back to Stalin and before.

Stalin demanded Finland turn over some provinces that were once part of the Russian Empire under Katherine the Great. Finland refused, Russia used a BS provocation they created to invade. This came out of the alliance between Nazi Germany and the USSR under secret protocols in the document partitioning Poland.

when Russia was done backstabbing them with the Nazis they moved into the Baltic's.

The very same bs excuses given by the Russians then are the ones being used by Putin now.
edit on 7-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

If Putin starts making noise about Russian "ethnic minorities" in Finland, I'll break out in a sweat...



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 11:17 PM
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a reply to: DarknStormy

What about "Oh no, not a frinrin"....LMAO!



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:52 AM
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Oh, this should be fun. If this is Putin's plan, he's not as smart as he looks. As has been mentioned, Stalin tried that once, back in 1939 (ie. about three years before the Red Army started kicking the Nazis all the way back to Berlin). They lost 130,000 soldiers in three months. The Finns pulled off one of the most impressive feats of unconventional warfare in history, relying on what they call sisu (roughly translated as "having guts" or bravery) to terrorize and destroy the invading Soviets, despite their vast numerical superiority. Using their ingenious motti tactics to carve the Red Army into small pockets, they'd take on tanks with nothing more than a Molotov cocktail and a log to the running gear.

Oh yeah, and then there's Simo Hayha. Better known to the Russians as the White Death. Expert sniper with over 500 confirmed kills, not to mention surviving a bullet taking off most of his left cheek and jaw.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:23 AM
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a reply to: ShadeWolf

What gets me is, by going after Finland, putin is going to once again push Finland from neutral to affiliating / joining NATO.

None of what Putin is doing makes any sense.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 06:24 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ShadeWolf

What gets me is, by going after Finland, putin is going to once again push Finland from neutral to affiliating / joining NATO.

None of what Putin is doing makes any sense.


I do wonder who is telling what to Putin. In the 2012 US Election members of the Romney camp were 'fixing' the poll numbers that were being reported to them, as they genuinely thought that were wrong. I wonder what the Putin camp are 'fixing' about world news to please Putin?



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

That's certainly an interesting question, too. Putin isn't irrational. He's as rational and pragmatic as they come. Your decisions are only as good as your intel, however. It only takes one or two poor evaluations to really put a wrench (spanner) in the works in a series of decisions.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:03 PM
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Is there any country that DOESN'T want to join Russia?

I know that part of building a nationalist propaganda/feeling is making it seem like your country is great and everybody wishes to live there, but... there's gotta be a limit somewhere, right?



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:26 PM
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originally posted by: _Del_
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

That's certainly an interesting question, too. Putin isn't irrational. He's as rational and pragmatic as they come. Your decisions are only as good as your intel, however. It only takes one or two poor evaluations to really put a wrench (spanner) in the works in a series of decisions.


I think we should be worried about Putin's frame of mind. On the surface he appears normal but behind the scenes who knows? He has recently divorced his wife and is now having a long term fling with a gymnast many years younger than him. His actions over foreign policy are clearly aggressive as he wants to restore the Russian Empire. And suggests he is not thinking of the implications in the 21st century.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Yeah Putin did the same thing in his 2012 elections as well. Except in his case it was the voting and not the polling but I digress.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 05:37 PM
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originally posted by: Wirral Bagpuss
I think we should be worried about Putin's frame of mind.

...suggests he is not thinking of the implications in the 21st century.


I think we should be worried about understanding Putin's frame of mind. I don't think anything he is doing is irrational. He is setting a new status quo and believes the rewards are well worth the risk. I think he's well aware of the implications. He knows that the EU nations and consequently the US will feel the squeeze of the sanctions (though not as much as Russia), and he believes that in time the sanctions will be relaxed as part of a new detente. In the meantime, I believe he is solidifying as much as he can knowing that the West lacks the desire to militarily challenge him over the Ukraine or anywhere else.
We can disagree about the rightness or wrongness of his state of mind, but I don't think it is irrational.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:49 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ShadeWolf

What gets me is, by going after Finland, putin is going to once again push Finland from neutral to affiliating / joining NATO.

None of what Putin is doing makes any sense.



And yet you claim that you know what is going on, and that the Non-Sense coming from American and elsewhere is necessary BECAUSE of RUSSIA etc.....

When are you going to break down and realize this is not the movies you watched and the TV NEWS you have consumed for the last 50 years.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:13 PM
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originally posted by: _Del_

Finland Wants to Join Russia

At least, that's what the Russian Times would like the natives to believe...

therussiantimes.com...

Google Translation



Recall that before the revolution of 1917, Finland was part of the Russian Empire, but had enough and independence - Swedish laws, its own currency and customs.

Another Finnish human rights activist Johan Beckman sure that such a drastic change in attitude occurred during the past year against the background of the EU and NATO actions in which there is simply no future. He believes that the collapse of both units - just a matter of the near future.
On this occasion, his point of view was expressed by the Prime Minister of Finland. Recently, he expressed support for the idea of ​​integration with Russia.


It is true that Finland would be perhaps the country most affected by a cut-off of Russian gas supplies. There is no doubt that some of the Finnish people (particularly those near the border) are nervous, and many of them are affected by the Russian embargo and the Western sanctions, and many of them would like to see closer ties to Russia.

Curiously, RT says, " his point of view was expressed by the Prime Minister of Finland. Recently, he expressed support for the idea of ​​integration with Russia." I'm not sure where that quote came from, but as recently as January the Prime Minister of Finland expressed the following," “We have to aim at maximising Finland’s national security and being part of decision-making, and that happens best as a NATO member."

Finland is not a charter-member of NATO, but is signatory to the NATO Partnership for Peace program.

NATO membership is not a popular idea in Finland. Most Finns are happy to tread the delicate line between East and West, especially with Russia right next door and a history of tension. While the RT article mentions Finland was once part of the Russian empire, it does not note the bloody civil war funded by the communists that wracked Finland after it gained its independence, nor the Soviet annexation of Karelia which is still a sore subject for many Finns.

The article is clearly for domestic consumption, but it's interesting to see what is being put out there.



Russia offers an alternative to world domination doctrine US of A been pushing taking alongways millions of lives. This is opening doors for real this time, to opt for a freaking option this time around. Events around the globe begin to show that the "king" is naked, without the closing.

Really. Smart of Finland to seek independence. Not saying Finland should join Russia. Finland should start to seek better life for it's citizens, seek of best route for best effect.

And step forward to show what is means to live on divert culturally planet.

Cheers)





edit on 8-9-2014 by darkorange because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2014 by darkorange because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2014 by darkorange because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:56 PM
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a reply to: _Del_

The Russians are far more truthful compared to West right now.

It is not weird for Finland to join Russia someday. It may happen by 2022.



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