Divorce Vs Homosexuality

a reply to: borntowatch

Sorry for derailing your thread. But to answer the question. When children are involved, divorce is a devastating force that destroys families. Many children from broken homes will grow up broken, not able to understand the value of marriage and a life long commitment.

If couples aren't willing to protect the family from adultery, abuse and divorce, then they are not ready for marriage and certainly not ready to be parents.

Psychologist have stated that kids who grow up with two parents are much more mentally stable both in their teen years and in their adult lives.

It is adultery, abuse and divorce that ruins families.

If a homosexual couple has children than I would suggest they remain together for the sake of children and family as well.

a reply to: sacgamer25
Remaining together for the sake of the children can rarely be dine civilized. It is much better to Co parent separately than to allow children you see unhappy parents.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
a reply to: sacgamer25
Remaining together for the sake of the children can rarely be dine civilized. It is much better to Co parent separately than to allow children you see unhappy parents.

I agree that not all marriages can be saved, especially when their is adultery and abuse. I have been on the bad side of adultery twice. Both ending in divorce. So I do understand that not everything can be forgiven.

I think people use the term "fall out of love" as a justification for adultery and divorce, this brothers me. It seems to me that everyone is chasing fairytales, and few are actually committed to their vows.

Our children need us to at least believe enough in our vows to stay faithful to each other. Adultery always destroys.

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: WarminIndy

Baal worship was much more than homosexuality. The type of homosexuality that is found in Baal worship still has no bearing on those who were born gay.

The men became sexually perverse because they worshipped Baal. They did not worship Baal because they were born gay.

Baal worship also includes human sacrifice and temple prostitution like you stated.

Those who are born homosexual and sexual perversion, simply have no link.

The one born straight that gives himself to homosexuality because of Baal worship is perverse, not the one born gay who is only doing what is natural for him.

We could argue that one a long time, however, it does appear from the text that Ba'al worship was a long time, even in Israel. Several generations came and went before Josiah even addressed it. Why? Because people were working on the temple and found the Torah hid in the wall, and Josiah didn't even have knowledge that it existed.

But we can't argue whether one is born gay or not because pedophiles use the same argument. It seemed natural to the Greeks to perform pederasty, even with little boys. Just because one thinks it is natural because they were born that way, we could argue that one all day.

But the only reason it was considered immoral to Josiah was because they had found the Torah scroll and then read from it, which had not happened for a very long time. So it would have seemed natural to those who worshiped Ba'al, because at that time it was the prevailing religion at the time. They did not think it was perverse until the Torah was read.

Within the system of Ba'al worship it was considered natural, as it did for the Greeks as well. And not only that, even the Kama Sutra explains all types of sex. So it wasn't something the ancient world didn't know about, they all knew. If you read the Kama Sutra, it has descriptions of homosexual sex.

To imply that there was no concept or idea of homosexuality in the ancient world then that is intellectually dishonest, and then say that those in Sodom were simply mere rapists, ludicrous. It's not like homosexuality is a new thing.

As far as divorce, it is devastating to families. The idea that a man and a woman who declare an oath, the Bible considers marriage a blood covenant. The token of that covenant was in the breaking of the hymen, because in those days the woman would present the bloody sheet to prove her virginity. But within that context, breaking your vow to your spouse equates to breaking your vow to God, because it was before God that the oath was taken. That's why both Moses and Jesus say that "for this cause shall a man leave his mother and father and cling unto his wife and they both shall become one flesh". Jesus endorsed the marriage of one man and one woman.

Did Jesus know about homosexuals? Certainly He did, because the Romans also openly displayed it at the time. Jesus said "not one jot nor one tittle shall pass away from the law until all these things come to pass". Jesus simply would not have condemned them like He didn't condemn the woman caught in adultery. However, that does not mean Jesus would allow the law to be broken. In that case, He considered adultery just as bad.

But He still said to the woman "go thy way and sin no more". So there was acknowledgement of it being sin, but that in Him is forgiveness. But here's the kicker, we were all born to sin in one way or another. Whether or not you consider homosexuality to be a sin, we were all born to be something, but it is being proactive in that is what the sin is. If a person is born a pedophile and never acts upon it, would he still be considered a pedophile?

Zeus raped Ganymede but then continued in the relationship. The Greeks though it ok if their god did it, so it would have seemed natural to them.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I am not an expert on the homosexual relationships of ancient Greece and Rome, but I have an opinion based on Plato.

Plato describes the homosexual relationship between post pubescent teen males and their older instructors as consensual.

I am not condoning anything, but what is consensual is obviously different from what is forced.

If what Plato describes was the norm, then the story of Sodom is still much different. You can't compare consensual relations with forced ones.

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: WarminIndy

I am not an expert on the homosexual relationships of ancient Greece and Rome, but I have an opinion based on Plato.

Plato describes the homosexual relationship between post pubescent teen males and their older instructors as consensual.

I am not condoning anything, but what is consensual is obviously different from what is forced.

If what Plato describes was the norm, then the story of Sodom is still much different. You can't compare consensual relations with forced ones.

Plato described pederasty.

Could the assumption be then that the Sodomites were descended to that level where rape becomes the norm? They were not worshipers of the same God as Abraham, they were worshipers of Ba'al. That much is true.

But you have to say whether or not rape is the norm and if any society can descend to thinking it normalcy, and then how did that society get to that level. The men didn't want to rape the women though, so you have to wonder why they were attracted to the men.

As much as you try to disconnect, it won't work. Homosexuality was the norm back then in all those societies, except for the times Israel followed God through the Torah as it was the only one who placed restrictions on it. And it was going on for the Torah to even place restrictions on it. Torah commandments don't say "in the future when it becomes the norm, then you can address it". No, it says it plainly in the text as it was written at the time there were homosexuals.

The definitions may have changed, but the same action was addressed then because people were doing it, in every way possible.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You realize you are arguing for a direct link between homosexuality and rape. You are also making a direct connection between homosexuality and Baal worship.

Plato was not condoning the activities in his writings, merely reporting on them.

I'm sorry but homosexuality does not lead to rape, nor does it lead to pedophilia, nor does it lead to anything. It is a sexual choice made by those who claim attraction to the same sex.

I don't think you understand their are people who believe open sexuality is enlightenment. These are the one's who follow after Baal worship. It has nothing to do with homosexuality, it is simply perversion.

You can Google Bohemian Grove if you would like to understand the "sexually enlightened" better.

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I'm divorced and, now I think marriage is a scam.

Not only that the misery of marriage had me wishing for death to part us.

Divorce was a much better option.

If neither you or your partner doesn't love each other heart to heart, you should not have married. Maybe your partner has been misinformed or lack of knowledge when he/she was growing up to cause this misery. This can happen and you see it a lot where Husband or Wife becomes lazy and do nothing after marriage.

Marriage like Divorce can be both abused. Just like my original post above about stealing wives to marry. Now a days everyone is so gullible and there are ignorant or evil people(women and men) who abuse other people through the use of marriage. Women usually for the money, Men usually for the laziness expecting the women to do everything. The opposite can also happen.

So far the only country stealing wives right now is those Islamic States. If you not a man in power in one of those countries you do not want to go there, there are bad people who would rape women and force them to be wives.

Marriage can be a scam if the government or religious group controls it. The whole point of being married was to show proof you already have a lover. The reason why women wear rings and for some reason no men wear rings instead of necklace.

a reply to: sacgamer25

Look up Marquis de Sade and Oscar Wilde.

Why do you act like homosexuality is a new thing?

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Look up Marquis de Sade and Oscar Wilde.

Why do you act like homosexuality is a new thing?

I'm not saying it's new. I just claimed I read about it in Plato. That is 2500 years ago.

Why do you think homosexuality leads to rape, pedophilia and Baal worship?

There is zero evidence that suggest homosexuality itself leads to anything but two people of the same sex falling in love.

The sexually immoral can be born straight or gay.

Today, we need a license to do those “unlawful” acts..“The origins of the doctrine parens patriae and the law can be traced to medieval and late medieval English chancery courts where it played an important roll in maintaining the structure of feudalism. The King had a royal prerogative to act as guardian to persons with legal disabilities such as infants, idiots, and lunatics..To further cement this doctrine of acquiring a license to marry, the Roman Catholic Church setup seminary schools, to also indoctrinate and empower those who desired to become preachers, the authority and permission to act as divine authority figures in regards to marriage. .macquirelatory.com...

And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage Galatians2

And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.Luke22

And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. Revelation18

Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Galatians 4

And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. 19

And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Revelation 5

originally posted by: sacgamer25

originally posted by: WarminIndy
a reply to: sacgamer25

Look up Marquis de Sade and Oscar Wilde.

Why do you act like homosexuality is a new thing?

I'm not saying it's new. I just claimed I read about it in Plato. That is 2500 years ago.

Why do you think homosexuality leads to rape, pedophilia and Baal worship?

There is zero evidence that suggest homosexuality itself leads to anything but two people of the same sex falling in love.

The sexually immoral can be born straight or gay.

Did I say it does?

No, what I said about that verse you quoted was that it was in the text that said "to KNOW them" which is not the Biblical definition of rape. You applied it to mean that and then I showed you where that was wrong.

Ba'al worship is going on right now, under the guise of post-modernism and moral relativity. It is within moral relativism that people justify anything they want.

But let me ask this, if God, who gave the commandments about homosexuals, is the same God forever, eternally, then how does one stand before that God in direct opposition to the laws given? Hm?

You can't stand before that God and not be judged for your works, which says plainly in the New Testament that we will all be judged. No church doctrine on prevenient grace will ever change that truth. We will all be judged for our works, every man and woman.

It is appointed unto man once to die, then after this the judgment.

revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into th

If you want to invoke a god that justifies it, then invoke a different one than the one the Bible talks about. The God of the Bible judges every person for their works. If you want a god who accepts you, then openly worship Ba'al, because Ba'al is accepting, Ba'al doesn't judge anyone, Ba'al doesn't care what you do.

If you say you believe in this God, then you are going to have to accept His moral restrictions. If you don't want the moral restrictions, then stop invoking Him. Follow the god of your imagination, and if Ba'al is what you follow, then follow Ba'al, don't be caught between two opinions.

a reply to: WarminIndy

I am not homosexual.

You can use scripture to justify condemnation of those who are born attracted to the same sex.

Or you can believe that they are telling you the truth. They were born this way, and allow them the same pursuit of love as anyone else without condemning them for your self-righteous believes.

In all cases, except the livitical code they are given over to sexual impurity, meaning something unnatural to them.

Do you think a young boy who realizes he is not attracted to women but rather to men is lying to you?

Being born gay is not a sin but you keep telling these young children they will go to hell for doing what in their heart is natural for them.

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: WarminIndy

I am not homosexual.

You can use scripture to justify condemnation of those who are born attracted to the same sex.

Or you can believe that they are telling you the truth. They were born this way, and allow them the same pursuit of love as anyone else without condemning them for your self-righteous believes.

In all cases, except the livitical code they are given over to sexual impurity, meaning something unnatural to them.

Do you think a young boy who realizes he is not attracted to women but rather to men is lying to you?

Being born gay is not a sin but you keep telling these young children they will go to hell for doing what in their heart is natural for them.

And the same little boy who was born with an attraction of other little boys that he never grows out of? I mean not for men, but for little boys.

A young BOY should not be attracted to MEN. What is wrong in this statement? You are placing onto them a sexual desire that they have no clue about yet.

When the man reciprocates the young boy....what does that make him? Oh, that makes him a pedophile but the boy is simply homosexual?

What's up with that way of thinking? So you condemn the man for fulfilling the natural desire of the boy?

a reply to: WarminIndy

I was not using the terms to denote age, only physical characteristics of being male and female. I am sorry that my choice of words was confusing to you.

The phrase, "marriage is work " kept me miserable years longer than common sense would have allowed.

I would gladly give my right to marry to any LGBT that wanted it.

originally posted by: makemap

originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I'm divorced and, now I think marriage is a scam.

Not only that the misery of marriage had me wishing for death to part us.

Divorce was a much better option.

If neither you or your partner doesn't love each other heart to heart, you should not have married. Maybe your partner has been misinformed or lack of knowledge when he/she was growing up to cause this misery. This can happen and you see it a lot where Husband or Wife becomes lazy and do nothing after marriage.

Marriage like Divorce can be both abused. Just like my original post above about stealing wives to marry. Now a days everyone is so gullible and there are ignorant or evil people(women and men) who abuse other people through the use of marriage. Women usually for the money, Men usually for the laziness expecting the women to do everything. The opposite can also happen.

So far the only country stealing wives right now is those Islamic States. If you not a man in power in one of those countries you do not want to go there, there are bad people who would rape women and force them to be wives.

Marriage can be a scam if the government or religious group controls it. The whole point of being married was to show proof you already have a lover. The reason why women wear rings and for some reason no men wear rings instead of necklace.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: borntowatch

It's a great question. I've often wondered what makes homosexuality the ONE "sin" that's seemingly worse than all the others.

Probably because gays don't produce more churchgoers to fill the collection plates.

a reply to: Tangerine

seems a little more at stake then building stuff

Economists may be able to construct models of how economies could grow amidst a shrinking population, but in the real world it has never happened..Fortunately, for the United States at least, the cost of aging may be offset in part by an ability to reduce its enormous military budget without any compromise of national security.. Yet while global aging will likely diminish straightforward military threats to the United States, the phenomenon creates new and more baffling challenges. Clearly, there is no law of nature that ensures human beings will reproduce themselves. newamerica.net...

After the approaching peak, as long as people continue to prefer saving effort and money by having fewer children, population will continue to decline. (This does not imply that the decision to have fewer children is selfish; it may, for example, be motivated by a desire to do more for each child.)www.theatlantic.com...

a reply to: borntowatch

Why does it matter? What is the point? How does it impact your life any? Plus, it's like comparing apples to oranges because one is a choice and the other isn't.

People choose to get divorced just as they chose to get married.

People are born straight or people are born gay. Heterosexuality is never considered a choice is it? I can never recall ever making a conscious decision to be straight, I've just always been straight. Just as my best friend was born gay, he never made a conscious decision that he was going to be attracted to men, he just always was.

Matthew 5:31-32: "It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’ But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."

Love how the wife ends up being the tainted adulteress, nothing is said about the husband...double standards...

a reply to: Jennyfrenzy

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. 1Corinthians7

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Matthew5

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Galatians4

One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits by many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery, and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” Revelation17NIV

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 18

But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.1Corinthians6

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Galatians5