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Why the Americans are loosing in Iraq

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posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by BillyTheCat
Well I wondered how long is was going to take before someone mentioned money. Sometimes, believe it or not, you simply can not make things better by throwing money at a problem. It comes down to attitude displayed by those responsible for solving a problem.

So you believe that the US is close to resolving the security situation here?. You also think that because the insurgents are fighting hard that they are almost beaten? All I have to say in ragards to your comments is "Northern Ireland"

Enough said I think


Who are you responding to? Me? If so, you will have to elaborate on the "Northern Ireland" thing. I'm sorry, but I'm really kind of 'shallow' in that area of discussion. (Not that I'm not interested, I think it just has to do w/what we are 'taught')




posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:21 AM
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BillyTheCat

I saw a report from Iraq this morning and correspondend claimed numbers of people joining resistance/insurgents is growing and Coalition forces are are slowly losing secured territory in Iraq.

Could you confirm/deny this?



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:25 AM
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Psychosis,

Could your information have anything to do with this:

www.abovetopsecret.com...


(Just a thought!)



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:33 AM
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Actually I'm refering to a live broadcast by an unembedded reporter in Iraq on Aussie TV who said that the numbers of insurgents/resistance has really blown out cause lots of "normal" Iraqi citizens were joining up to fight U.S occupation.

That's why I don't have a link.

I was just hoping to get an opinion on the statement from someone who is there and not millitary.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:33 AM
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Well its no big story over here that the insurgents are gaining support on a daily basis. Basically a lot of promises that were made at the end of the war have yet to be actioned i.e. public health, clean water supplies, constant electricity etc etc and this is only what is happening in Baghdad.

A lot of folk forget that Baghdad has a population of 5 million people, a good percentage of who don't have jobs. Pay is fairly poor with an avarage monthly wage of $300 or there abouts. I know that the various insurgent groups have been offering cash to those who inform on Westerners or engage the Coalition Forces. Anyone who hands over a Westerner to the insurgents could expect to receive $25K - $30K in cash.

Another thing to take into account is that the day after the war had been declared over 400,000 (yes four hundred thousand) Iraqi servicemen were made redundant without any pay!. regardless of what people say about the Iraqi military, some elements were very well trained, mainly by the US and UK.

So in short - yes the number of insurgents is growing on a daily basis, with their attacks becoming bigger, more daring and more complex.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:39 AM
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Thanks for your response. I appreciate it.

Try to keep yourself safe over there.

Cheers.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:59 AM
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Can you be an "insurgent" in your own neighborhood?

People will always stand up for their homes, family, heritage.

There were no Iraqi's in the planes on 911.

They had nothing to do with that.

These young "insurgents" know of nothing but War, and hatred for all things
American.

You cannot start something off with wrong intentions, and have a good result.

It's natural law!!

Read "The Kybalion", Hermetic Philosophy by Three Initiates .Iit teaches that in Spirituality 101.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 06:14 AM
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Wow......a little deep....but no you can't be an insurgent in your own neighbourhood. Its the old adage of one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

We seem to be drifting from the thread slightly, but I'll go with the flow.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 03:50 PM
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Well, here you go Billy. If you watch the video on this thread I think you'll see why the US Humvee ram anyone in their way. Maybe this explains their reasoning a bit more once you see it from their point of view.

[edit on 7-12-2004 by dbates]



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by BillyTheCat

1/ Very few have any form of previous combat experience in a counter insurgency situation.

2/ Large numbers come across as being very arrogant and very dumb.

3/ There appears to be very little leadership or supervision at squad/team level.

4/ An attitude of "I want to kill someone before I leave Iraq" is prevalent.

5/ They have no regard for human life, apart from their own.

6/ Without their vehicles they appear to be unable to operate in any capacity what so ever.

7/ The Rules of Engagement are completely ignored every day.

8/ Some appear to have had no schooling or education of any kind.

9/ There is no desire to try to understand the customs or indeed the people of Iraq.

10/ Many come from National Guard units, who simply are not up to the job out here.

11/ None of them appear to be aware of any plan to bring stability to the country.



Sounds like the typical US soldier... Whats the point? They are trained to kill... They aren't over there to learn Arabic or whats so special about the Iraqi culture. Thats why they're called "grunts." As for the rules of engagement... Why should our guys have to follow them if the other side ain't? I think that would be stupid...



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
Sounds like the typical US soldier... Whats the point? They are trained to kill... They aren't over there to learn Arabic or whats so special about the Iraqi culture. Thats why they're called "grunts." As for the rules of engagement... Why should our guys have to follow them if the other side ain't? I think that would be stupid...


Somehow the British troops manage the people in Iraq much better, why is that?
Maybe because they are less hostile?



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor

Originally posted by BillyTheCat

1/ Very few have any form of previous combat experience in a counter insurgency situation.

2/ Large numbers come across as being very arrogant and very dumb.

3/ There appears to be very little leadership or supervision at squad/team level.

4/ An attitude of "I want to kill someone before I leave Iraq" is prevalent.

5/ They have no regard for human life, apart from their own.

6/ Without their vehicles they appear to be unable to operate in any capacity what so ever.

7/ The Rules of Engagement are completely ignored every day.

8/ Some appear to have had no schooling or education of any kind.

9/ There is no desire to try to understand the customs or indeed the people of Iraq.

10/ Many come from National Guard units, who simply are not up to the job out here.

11/ None of them appear to be aware of any plan to bring stability to the country.



Sounds like the typical US soldier... Whats the point? They are trained to kill... They aren't over there to learn Arabic or whats so special about the Iraqi culture. Thats why they're called "grunts." As for the rules of engagement... Why should our guys have to follow them if the other side ain't? I think that would be stupid...


Finally, someone with some common sense. Why are we being chastised for not fighting fair, and prison abuse (that is not abuse...I still think that whole ordeal is lame.), etc...when our enemies are boobie trapping dead bodies, and driving car bombs into convoys. Why is it that we never hear how horrible it is that the other side ISN'T fighting fair, which is seen in the news every day, but everyone talks about all the bad things we're doing, which is largely based on speculation and conspiracy theory. Frustrating....



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 04:52 PM
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US "Lost" Iraq the day that Saddam statue crumble and the borders were left open for terrorist, and the people in Iraq was left free to run wild looting and stealing all over the city with not control from our ill prepared administration with not clue as how to run an post war invasion.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:06 PM
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More Lies there are NO terrorists just Sadahhms Republican Guards waging a Aysemetrical war fare dreesed as civilians, in the South the Republican Guard has ordered #es to assemble a HUGE militia these militia men are the Iraqis the U.S. is showing on the news shooting in a wild nonstraight way the U.S.Gov doesn't want CNN to show Republican Guard killing Marines so U.S. population will think Arabs are going into Iraq so U.S. will ask U.S. Population to allow U.S. Military to stay in Iraq longer the real reason is to defeat Republican Guard and take Iraqi Oil Part1. joevialls.altermedia.info... Part2. joevialls.altermedia.info...



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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by Jaruseleh
and prison abuse (that is not abuse...I still think that whole ordeal is lame.),


You are joking, right?

The the sodomisation of children is lame is it?

The video's taken of these acts are not speculation or conspiracy theories. They are vile proof to the sickness which you approve of.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:29 PM
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Why are the americans losing in iraq?

They are fighting an impossible war against an unconquerable enemy.
I mean come on they are fighting against an enemy that can appear and dissapear at a moments notice, what america needs to do is get dissinformation out.

Although they are doing that mabye they need to step up the plans.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor
Sounds like the typical US soldier... Whats the point? They are trained to kill... They aren't over there to learn Arabic or whats so special about the Iraqi culture. Thats why they're called "grunts."


Soldiers aren't called grunts because they're trained to kill and beacuse they are not their to learn things,

Grunts are called "grunts" beacuse of the sound they made when they carried those heavy backpacks back then. The term was mostly used during Nam. Yes it sounds silly to the average citizen but thats the true reason why tehy are called "grunts".



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by LostSailor

Originally posted by BillyTheCat

1/ Very few have any form of previous combat experience in a counter insurgency situation.

2/ Large numbers come across as being very arrogant and very dumb.

3/ There appears to be very little leadership or supervision at squad/team level.

4/ An attitude of "I want to kill someone before I leave Iraq" is prevalent.

5/ They have no regard for human life, apart from their own.

6/ Without their vehicles they appear to be unable to operate in any capacity what so ever.

7/ The Rules of Engagement are completely ignored every day.

8/ Some appear to have had no schooling or education of any kind.

9/ There is no desire to try to understand the customs or indeed the people of Iraq.

10/ Many come from National Guard units, who simply are not up to the job out here.

11/ None of them appear to be aware of any plan to bring stability to the country.



Sounds like the typical US soldier... Whats the point? They are trained to kill

The thing is, the allies in WWII were also trained to kill, but once the war was obver they acted like human beings and needed to in order to rebuild an entire hostil but subdued country. I think that the people advocating a little humanity woudl note that the british troops dont' get fired on as much as the american. Perversely enough, the muck that is the modern middle east is largely the result of actions of the british. But they're just so god damned polite, ya'd feel bad sticking a knife in their back.

Its a trade off.



They aren't over there to learn Arabic or whats so special about the Iraqi culture.

Bad idea since its going to be an extremely long deployment. Being able to speak to people in their own language goes a long way. Americans tend to have no tolerance for a babling iraqi/middle eastern immigrant who can't 'talk good english', so imagine how much worse it is the other way around.

One small exampe is that the brits took their helmets off and sunglasses off while deployed in iraq. THey didn't get snipped into oblivion, people related to them. The americans, well sunglasses are kickass right? So they don't take them off. The average guy on teh street can't relate to them as well. Hell, I read a news article where the kids thought that they were x-ray glasses. One kid got to play with the glasses and he was like 'turn them on'. The joes were liek 'wtf?' Meanwhile, how much closer to the edge do you think the young iraqi men get when they see decadent bar-bar-ing american oggling the bodies of virtuous iraqi women with their x-ray goggles?

How can a nation get rebuilt if the joes are sitting ehind barricade and patroling in armour? That not how germany or japan was occupied. Granted, there wasn't the same sort of insurgency, but what happens when the insurgency gets tamped down? They need to be able to relate to the people.


Why should our guys have to follow them if the other side ain't?

The rules of engagment exist to prevent unnessesary killing on both sides. Irregardless a solider will attack when threatened.



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Why are the americans losing in iraq?

They are fighting an impossible war against an unconquerable enemy.
I mean come on they are fighting against an enemy that can appear and dissapear at a moments notice,


The Britishers seemed to eventually be able to conquer the Boers, who could appear and dissapear at will. Hell the Boers out on commando were more mobile than the british columns, but the brits were able to stop them, supress them, and build a nation.

Of course it required burning all the homesteads and putting the civilian population into concentration camps in the meantime. But Brother Boer wasn't playing fair!



posted on May, 10 2005 @ 08:35 AM
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Whatever happened to Billy the Cat? I always enjoyed what he had to say most of the time.

Anyway, as per the topic:



I wonder if Rummy got around to giving the troops what they need yet. To not lose, and all that.

[edit on 10-5-2005 by cargo]





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