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Esoteric Meaning in Music - Newsboys "We Believe"

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posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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Esoteric is a word that means hidden. In the case of most Christian Music, there is no hidden meaning. If you have been following this series of threads, you know that I have been showing the underlying meaning of ONE central message that pervades most Rock music. That message goes something like this:

There is an evil god that has locked mankind on Earth as a prison for fallen beings. We are trapped in a cycle of birth, death and rebirth. We are further trapped in a body that is not our true identity. The anthem of Rock music, for the most part, is a rebellion against this authority. In reality, this is a very Gnostic view. If you have studied the Masonic / Gnostic view of the Demiurge and fallen Archons, then you know what the secret and hidden message is. If you know this message, then you will see it in the new Masonic version of Hip Hop and other current music of our day and age.

Most rock music sings of the female influence as the object of love. Most music of this theme has a double meaning. The female in question is the Gnostic Sophia / Lillith / Asherah. Compare this to the fallen Eve and the virgin Mary. On either side, you have one that represents involution and you have the other that represents evolution (rising to new life). The Gnostic view fails to see that both sides are correct. Of course, so does the Christian side. This is the point. Baptism, for all of us, is a process to sink into the female (matter / cup) and then rise to new life. Why the female you ask? I'll show you this later. At the end of this video, I'll show you a contrast between the female version of this esoteric mystery.

Right now, take a look at the true mystery unveiled by the life of Christ in the first century. As I have stated before in these threads, some of these songs lament our condition and are reflective of a rebellion against God. Other music, like this one, reflects a celebration of the message of salvation from the fall.



This is an excellent reminder of what our true attitude should be toward God--one of reverence and fear (deference). There are two types of fear. One is respect and the other is dread. True fear of God is respect and deference.

Here is an example of something coming out in current music that reveals the message of the Spirit (Female). She's coming up. I'll answer why in a moment.



Notice that you see the very same imagery of the female, the mirror image, the masks on the faces and the part that comes from those dressed in black. Note the color of the singer. Note her words in relation to the one coming up. Get this party started, which is the secret of the Gnostics. They have a savior of sorts that is expected. She's coming up.

Note the progression. Father, Son and Mother (Holy Spirit) must participate in involution (Baptism). There is a pattern that we can find in child birth to show the hidden meaning behind all of this story. Are the rockers right or are the Christians right? The answer is neither and both.

Involution and evolution is the sinking of spirit into matter, forgetting who it is, then rising again to new life. The Father participates, the Mother participates and the Son participates. The mother is the last to rise. Why? She is the Mater / Matter / Womb. She gives birth to the new man. Why is she coming up now to rise again? Because the son will be born. The Son then meets the mother. Note the sequence.

Adam to Abraham is the Age of the Father (2000 Years / 2 Days)

Issac to Jesus is the Age of the Son (2 Days)

Jesus to Today is the Age of the Holy Spirit. (2 Days).

Where are we now? We are at the end of the 6th day, or the time the Mother is introduced and rises from the involution. The Holy Spirit comes to mankind in the form of the new Son being born. 2000 years ago, he was conceived.

BIG POINT: When does the video above state that she will arrive? Saturday night. That's the sixth day, right before the sabbath. We are now at the end of day six. She's coming up. The story is in the music.

edit on 5-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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For me there is not much i can find to debate in the threads you have presented. The music is telling a story of the fallen. Take this linkin park song recorded in new orleans in 2000. Of coarse it is well written and the listener can easily see and relate it to a relaationship troubles but when you take a closer look it can open up many doors of thought.

It starts with why
One thing
I don't know why
It doesn't even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind
I designed this rhyme
To explain in due time
All I know
Time is a valuable thing
Watch it fly by as the pendulum swings
Watch it count down to the end of the day
The clock ticks life away

It's so unreal
Didn't look out below
Watch the time go right out the window
Trying to hold on, but you didn't even know
Wasted it all just to watch you go
I kept everything inside
And even though I tried, it all fell apart
What it meant to me
Will eventually be a memory of a time when

I tried so hard
And got so far
But in the end
It doesn't even matter
I had to fall
To lose it all
But in the end
It doesn't even matter

One thing, I don't know why
It doesn't even matter how hard you try
Keep that in mind
I designed this rhyme
To remind myself how
I tried so hard
In spite of the way you were mocking me
Acting like I was part of your property



posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick

Good example. Thank you for the song. I'll post the video too:




posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: deadeyedick

A good comparison to seeing the end is knowing there is no end to God's love. The end is simply a new beginning.




posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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I’m a musician.I was in Christian bands in the 80’s I saw what it was like from the inside and at it’s core it is no different than secular music industry.They are selling a product “life style” however a HUGE difference is they use the creator God as their marketing tool.

Christian band concerts are mass hypnosis just like a secular rock concert though…. even more so.The words may seem different but they are at the core the same….the vain imaginations of man.The “God” they sing about is not the creator God it is the God of their imaginations.They extrapolate words from the scriptures as a mantra and call it holy when it is anything but.They manipulate feelings and emotions and call it “spiritual” as if that is “the creator God” .It is ALL vanity of vanity.

As Joseph said to his brother what you meant for evil the creator God meant for good.Despite their veiled (even from themselves) intentions the creator God has used this “evil” as good….and it is NOT about the words…the words of man are babel..confusion.The same for “secular” music(whatever the hell that is) and ALL of the “entertainment industry”….it is ALL the vanity of man yet the “creator God (the only artist their is) means it for good.What that good is Can NOT be known because mankind can NOT perceive it.

Just as all of the chaos and violence and entropy of the universe is ALL means for good but NONE of it can known for it’s purpose by man.To purport to”know” the mind of the creator God is the ultimate vanity.All that can be “known” of the creator mind and purposes is…it is ALL for good no matter it’s good intention or evil.(notice I did not say it was ALL good or evil).

What the creator\ God'ss “mind” and purpose is NOT for man to “judge”.That is the result of “eating” from the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”(ALL of mankinds Belief System religion).Mankinds purpose is ONLY to do the will of the creator God..and ONLY that will ..WILL be done.



posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 06:22 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet



Originally posted by AlephBet
Note the progression. Father, Son and Mother (Holy Spirit) must participate in involution (Baptism). There is a pattern that we can find in child birth to show the hidden meaning behind all of this story. Are the rockers right or are the Christians right? The answer is neither and both.



You say the “answer is neither and both.”

Which I can only assume means that both the Gnostics/Rockers and the Christians have some truth in them, while also containing some false hoods…or errors etc…

So I’m curious…

In your opinion, which parts have the Christians got right/wrong, and which parts have the Gnostics got right/wrong…?


- JC



posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 06:48 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft



You say the “answer is neither and both.”

Which I can only assume means that both the Gnostics/Rockers and the Christians have some truth in them, while also containing some false hoods…or errors etc…

So I’m curious…

In your opinion, which parts have the Christians got right/wrong, and which parts have the Gnostics got right/wrong…?


Both have the essential story correct. We are not our bodies. We are wearing them as bio-mechanical robots. The Bible states that we are created in an image. Image is like looking in a mirror. We are fallen. We are isolated here and restricted by law. Law is our guardian of sorts, just as Galatians 3 states. In Jewish tradition, the guardian is a trusted relative that cares for the son of the landowner. This is essentially what a lord is. The job of the guardian is to take care of the son until he can inherit the family farm. The guardian restricts the son and teaches him the aspects of the harvest.

Between the two, the differences are found by looking at the rebellion of the son against the guardian. There are some sons that do not rebel. They are both correct in their expression. One laments and complains. One eagerly joins in one the work. Each are participating in the same story. They are both wrong in their conclusion.

Righteousness is being on the correct side of truth. Self-righteousness, on the other hand is the same as wickedness. The Bible clearly states that none are righteous. I'm definitely not righteous and neither, obviously is a wicked person (all are wicked just like me and you). For anyone to say that they are righteous, what they say is a lie. None are righteous. Wickedness and self-perceived righteousness are the same thing. Each seeks to rule over the other. The wicked calls the self-righteous a hypocrite. The righteous condemn the wicked for falling short. They are both right and they are both wrong.

What's the point then? We are not saved from our own works. Neither can we be condemned unless we judge another person. By condemning another (rising above), we condemn ourselves. Wickedness rules others for gain. Self-righteousness judges another for gain. They are the same. Only the person in the middle (mean) can be righteous. Neutral is the middle between the swing of the pendulum. It's the narrow path.

This is obvious if you study physics. Hydrogen has one proton (+) and one electron (-). Which is in the nucleus with the Neutron? What is the Neutron? The Strong nuclear force in nature is the relationship of the proton and neutron abiding in the law of invariant symmetry. The electron is the weak force and does not abide. Right now, we are all electrons. We are being heeled by the strong force.

To heel means to change direction. Like a dog heeling with it's masters steps, heeling is learning to follow authority. None of us are free from this guardian.

Galatians 3

23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

We have ALL been baptized into this Earth. All are clothed with Christ. Unity comes when we realize this. It's not our own natures that matter. It's the nature we are inheriting. All of us.

The third category rejects the entire message. They cannot see the message to have faith. Without faith, the are blind. They do not seek. They are both wicked and self-righteous. A person cannot be justified if they reject the one that gave them life.
edit on 6-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 07:04 PM
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a reply to: Joecroft

Another way to explain this is the word Chet. Chet is sin, or missing the mark. We have all missed the mark. We have all fallen short. The mark is the Tav, or last letter of Hebrew.



The Tav is the mark that shows the goal, which is love and giving. This has nothing to do with our sin, but is the mark we hit by doing good to and for others. We are all sinners, but we are also bound to others in this world. Hitting the mark is recognition of the only one who fully hit the mark, the one that is the mark himself. The target is Christ, or the Omega of the letters of Hebrew. He is also the Alpha, or beginning of the involution into the material world. This is why Christ is called the Alpha and Omega, or beginning and end. We are all aspects of this expression into the material world. The mark of the beast is Chet, or the animal nature to take from others.

1 Timothy 3

3 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

Count them. There are 18 markers. He says, "Mark This!" 6+6+6.

The mark of mankind is the mark of the beast, or Carbon. Carbon has 6 protons, 6 neutrons and 6 electrons. Overcoming the mark can only be accomplished by finding the mark to hit. TAV is the mark, or the cross. We cannot do this ourselves. When we realize this, we have turned to the correct authority.

We are heeled.

Children who grow up no longer need the guardian. They are free to inherit the Father's land. First, we must come home as prodigals.

All of us are wicked until we do. I am still struggling with animal nature. How about you? We are not free from the guardian until faith becomes fact for us. This is when Christ changes our natures and is revealed in us. We cannot do it, or we would be the savior. This is common ground for both of us in the world. None of us are righteous until we are made righteous. It's not our work.

Faith is in the one that already did what we cannot do.




edit on 6-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 6 2014 @ 09:07 PM
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a reply to: AlephBet



Originally posted by AlephBet
Both have the essential story correct. We are not our bodies. We are wearing them as bio-mechanical robots. The Bible states that we are created in an image. Image is like looking in a mirror. We are fallen. We are isolated here and restricted by law. Law is our guardian of sorts, just as Galatians 3 states. In Jewish tradition, the guardian is a trusted relative that cares for the son of the landowner. This is essentially what a lord is. The job of the guardian is to take care of the son until he can inherit the family farm. The guardian restricts the son and teaches him the aspects of the harvest.


Ok, I guess that covers the truths they both contain, but what about the errors…why are they both “neither right” …?




Originally posted by AlephBet
Between the two, the differences are found by looking at the rebellion of the son against the guardian. There are some sons that do not rebel. They are both correct in their expression. One laments and complains. One eagerly joins in one the work. Each are participating in the same story. They are both wrong in their conclusion.


So one Son rebels and another does not, and somehow they are both correct in their expressions…

hmmm…can you explain what you mean…?

And…

What conclusions were they making…?




Originally posted by AlephBet
Righteousness is being on the correct side of truth. Self-righteousness, on the other hand is the same as wickedness. The Bible clearly states that none are righteous. I'm definitely not righteous and neither, obviously is a wicked person (all are wicked just like me and you). For anyone to say that they are righteous, what they say is a lie.

None are righteous. Wickedness and self-perceived righteousness are the same thing. Each seeks to rule over the other. The wicked calls the self-righteous a hypocrite. The righteous condemn the wicked for falling short. They are both right and they are both wrong.


Although I do agree that self perceived righteousness and wickedness, are in most cases, the same thing…I have to seriously disagree with you, in regards to the 2 parts I’ve highlighted above…

First of all, your starting premise/definition of what a righteous person does, is on the wrong track…A righteous person should never condemn people (Luke 6:37); those that do, are NOT righteous IMO, even if they think they are. A righteous person will only try to help another change their wrongful ways, through words of Wisdom.

Also, many men and prophets were declared righteous by God in the OT…Even Jesus said he came to call sinners to repentance and not the righteous, because only the sick need a doctor etc…

Which gives a clue as to what righteousness really is…It’s Following/Keeping Gods Commandments/Laws, or the Guardian as you put it…all those who keep the commandments, Love God…




Originally posted by AlephBet
What's the point then? We are not saved from our own works. Neither can we be condemned unless we judge another person. By condemning another (rising above), we condemn ourselves. Wickedness rules others for gain. Self-righteousness judges another for gain. They are the same. Only the person in the middle (mean) can be righteous. Neutral is the middle between the swing of the pendulum. It's the narrow path.


I think a lot depends on what you mean by “saved”?…I don’t believe in the standard Christian “Hell fire” doctrine of punishment…and have a completely different view on what it means to be “saved”…

But your right, by condemning others, we are just condemning ourselves (Luke 6:37)… strangely enough, I was saying exactly the same thing a few days ago, in this post…


- JC



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft



So one Son rebels and another does not, and somehow they are both correct in their expressions…


Parable with commentary:

Luke 15

11 Jesus continued: “There was a man who had two sons. 12 The younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me my share of the estate.’ So he divided his property between them.

---Read the Virgin of the World: LINK

13 “Not long after that, the younger son got together all he had, set off for a distant country and there squandered his wealth in wild living. 14 After he had spent everything, there was a severe famine in that whole country, and he began to be in need. 15 So he went and hired himself out to a citizen of that country, who sent him to his fields to feed pigs. 16 He longed to fill his stomach with the pods that the pigs were eating, but no one gave him anything.

---Relate this to the story of Joseph and Israel.

17 “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired servants have food to spare, and here I am starving to death! 18 I will set out and go back to my father and say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19 I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me like one of your hired servants.’ 20 So he got up and went to his father.

---We are bond servants here on Earth. This is because the Kinsman redeemer came as a guardian for the Sons here on Earth, which is one piece of the larger inheritance. The Son wanted to come back, but he cannot until his whole house is purchased. He came to redeem (pay for) the house that Adam brought into sin. Adam is the first man from the Son of God.

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him.

---The kiss is pronunciation of blessing and inheritance from the Father.

21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’

---Repentance is the realization that we have sinned. It is a turning back home to the Father. The Son brings us all back. The trouble came through him in the first place. Read Job 19 NIV.

22 “But the father said to his servants, ‘Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. 23 Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. 24 For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ So they began to celebrate.

---The best robe is a glorified body for the Son to wear. The robe in question is the suffering of the saints. Just as the Sheep wander the wilderness and develop a coat of wool (sin), the shepherd sheers the wool from the hide and washes it white. He then makes a robe from the wool. This is the robe that the Son of God wears. If we have faith in the Son, then all his servants (mankind) wear the same robe. God sees us through his son if the son succeeds. The same joy the Father expresses of the son is the same joy God shows to us all, because we are the Son's family.

25 “Meanwhile, the older son was in the field. When he came near the house, he heard music and dancing. 26 So he called one of the servants and asked him what was going on. 27 ‘Your brother has come,’ he replied, ‘and your father has killed the fattened calf because he has him back safe and sound.’

---Which brother learned more and became humbled? The one that left home to discover truth. He suffered for his knowledge. The other son stayed at home and took reward. He became self-centered. There is no appreciation for what was lost. This is objectivity over altruism. God's will is to give and receive. The thief can only take and never give. Jesus said to give to even enemies.

28 “The older brother became angry and refused to go in. So his father went out and pleaded with him. 29 But he answered his father, ‘Look! All these years I’ve been slaving for you and never disobeyed your orders. Yet you never gave me even a young goat so I could celebrate with my friends. 30 But when this son of yours who has squandered your property with prostitutes comes home, you kill the fattened calf for him!’

---Compare this now to the self-righteous on earth. They serve God, yet God will celebrate the unrighteous who come home more than the one that did what he was supposed to do in the first place. Both sons are safe. Which Son is treasured more? The one that was lost, but came home. As it should be for all involved. Note that Christ said he came for the unrighteous and not the righteous. Christ is the Son that left home for his lost brothers.

31 “‘My son,’ the father said, ‘you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. 32 But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’”

---In the end, the Son of God rebelled. Genesis 2 is a second creation. God had already created in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 is mankind BOTH male and female with no restrictions to the fruit. Genesis 2 is the splitting of mankind and the restriction of the fruit. Ezekiel 28 is the Son of God before the fall, when error was found in him. Jesus was the first Adam and the last Adam. It was not until he was the last Adam that he returned home and the Holy Spirit descended on him. Once he died, three days later he rises. A day is 1000 years. His Spirit rose, but his body is still in the distance. That's the church, or mankind on Earth. We must rise as the new born humanity. The end of the sixth day is when we rise, after following the same story of the cross. We will be crucified, then rise again.

Perfected in suffering.

Gospel of Philip

When the pearl is cast down into the mud, it becomes greatly despised, nor if it is anointed with balsam oil will it become more precious. But it always has value in the eyes of its owner. Compare the Sons of God: wherever they may be, they still have value in the eyes of their Father.

Read the Virgin of the World: LINK

It was God's plan all along. It is happening all over the universe as some sons have scattered themselves. There is only one true Son of God. He created everything in this universe. There are many other realms as Ephesians states. There are powers, principalities and families in Heaven.

See this thread: LINK" target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">Disclosure 2000 years ago...

Read the virgin document. The readjustment of the final order comes from the wanderings and investigations of God through the universe and his creation. We are the eyes looking at the first creation. We are also the universal souls above (Angels). What we do here is adjusted above. We are the unrighteous below that will die so the righteous versions of us above are complete. Both are correct. Below, we reflect both between. As above, so below. As within, so without. It's an image. Images have shadows and are mirrored reflections in reverse.


edit on 7-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft



First of all, your starting premise/definition of what a righteous person does, is on the wrong track…A righteous person should never condemn people (Luke 6:37); those that do, are NOT righteous IMO, even if they think they are. A righteous person will only try to help another change their wrongful ways, through words of Wisdom.


I was not clear. I didn't mean we will judge. I meant that most Christians today are very judgmental. I was saying the reality of the situation, not what should be.

On righteousness below:

Romans 3

9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,

This is where we need to make sure we keep the above and below correct in our minds. We are made righteous in degrees above (angel) by the work of the one below (child). Some were formally justified by faith. This is correct. If we are baptized below, then we are souls that are still expressing our duration below.

Virgin of the World



Every human soul, Asclepios, is immortal; but this immortality is not uniform. It differs both in mode and in duration.


The goal is to become Spirit. Soul is the animal nature and has a duration before reaching the end. God is infinitely patient or he would not be God. If there is an end to his patience, then he has a limit. A limit means he is not infinite or eternal.


edit on 7-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 06:51 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft



I think a lot depends on what you mean by “saved”?…I don’t believe in the standard Christian “Hell fire” doctrine of punishment…and have a completely different view on what it means to be “saved”…

But your right, by condemning others, we are just condemning ourselves (Luke 6:37)…


We're all on the same journey to return home a prodigals. Some will take longer than others. We are baptized four times to reach the end.

Earth - Adam made from clay - Carbon is the mark of mankind. 6 protons, 6 electrons and 6 neutrons.

Air - Breath of life - Word is spoken with breath and life comes from the Nitrogen (7 protons, 7 Neutrons and 7 electrons) and Oxygen (888).

Water - Baptism / Flood of Noah - See this thread: Reality Spoilers - Noah is Baptism. We are the beasts in the Ark (Earth).

Fire - The last baptism comes to those who refuse the water. Water puts out fire.

The fire will reduce all things back to their original state. From the ashes, the rest will follow the path back home.

Virgin of the World

"Now this unity, which constitutes the world, is formed of four elements: fire, water, earth, and air:--one single world, one single soul, and one single God. Lend me now all the powers and all the penetration of thy thought; for the idea of Divinity, which cannot be conceived save by divine assistance, resembles a rapid stream precipitating itself onwards with impetuosity, and often, therefore, outstrips the attention of the listeners, and even of him who teaches."




edit on 7-9-2014 by AlephBet because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 09:41 AM
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a reply to: AlephBet

First of all, thanks for introducing to the “Virgin of the World” text by Hermes Trismegistus, I’ve only read a few of his other writings, such as “The Kybalion”, “The Key”, and “The sacred Sermon”, etc…




Originally posted by AlephBet
---Which brother learned more and became humbled? The one that left home to discover truth. He suffered for his knowledge. The other son stayed at home and took reward. He became self-centered. There is no appreciation for what was lost. This is objectivity over altruism. God's will is to give and receive. The thief can only take and never give. Jesus said to give to even enemies.


If one son suffered/learned for his knowledge and the other became self-centred etc…then how can both of their expressions be the same…? Perhaps I‘m missing something here in your thinking…

I personally believe the story of the Prodigal Son is a parable describing how one returns back to the Father, (Kingdom of Heaven within) Some go through trails/do bad things etc…Which in turn makes them begin to seek the Truth/Wisdom, and only then, do they return home.




Originally posted by Joecroft
First of all, your starting premise/definition of what a righteous person does, is on the wrong track…A righteous person should never condemn people (Luke 6:37); those that do, are NOT righteous IMO, even if they think they are. A righteous person will only try to help another change their wrongful ways, through words of Wisdom.





Originally posted by AlephBet
I was not clear. I didn't mean we will judge. I meant that most Christians today are very judgmental. I was saying the reality of the situation, not what should be.


Oh I see; yes this is very true, many Christians can be so condemning and judgemental, but this is predominately fuelled by a belief in a Hell fire Doctrine of punishment IMO…



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: Joecroft

Read my new thread on Reality Spoilers - Fires of Judgment. It likely has the answer to the question.



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