‘Forced’ to fight: Disillusioned British ISIS Fighters Afraid to Come Home

a reply to: OpinionatedB

These are war crimes, and they are and should be punishable by death.

Define war crimes then Opinionated. You think these things they do are uncivilized? More barbaric than guns and bombs or drones? Are you saying our troops have never tortured, maimed or killed indiscriminately? Because our intentions are honorable? Noble? Honest?

Why did we go to Iraq then? What did we do while we were there? Are we heroes then?

Sorry Opinionated, but like a lot of people - I've seen too much of this nonsense to pretend

Ideology is nothing but an excuse - how is ours better? Did we not just fight a religious war? Or was it for money? Oil? Territory? To make the world safe for democracy?

Did we destroy Iraq to show al-Qaeda we mean business?

I think it was all of those things. I'm pretty sure ISIS needs a rallying point - same as us

Do I sound like an apologist? I think they are barbaric - I only see a difference in technique and resources. As to motivation - yeah - nothing I can support there. But if we only up the ante and retaliate there will be worse to come. Is it possible for you to imagine worse?

War is useless

Sure just roll over and take it dry..suit yourself

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Ask yourself how you would prefer to die. And you might understand my answer.

I would rather a bullet... or a bomb... than a dull knife sawing through the tendons in my neck...than hanging from a cross for days with no water..

then ask yourself the reason.... is the reason better if a man thinks there are weapons of mass destruction and he is saving people's lives... or is the reason better if he simply doesn't like your choice of religion...

Your answer is in the answers to these questions.

a reply to: OpinionatedB

You want me to say they are worse than we are. I understand why you need that. To be sure, Opinionated - there are some crimes that are worse than others. It's why I've often spoken out against torture

It's why I've spoken out against Assad - among others. There was a lot that went into creating some of these monsters

After the Nazis we had to understand the Germans. Understanding the Germans only helped us understand ourselves

To be fair, we played a role in that too

We made peace with Japan. Do you know what the Japanese did to some of our servicemen? How much of this world do you want to explore? How much history?

Good and evil...

Sorry Opinionated - I can't pretend not to know what I know

In my religion God judges you according to intention...

on the one hand the intention was to thwart God himself, and deny men freewill.

on the other hand the intention was to save people from harm and finding things (and removing them from service) that could kill mass amounts of people indiscriminately.

While Iraq turned out to be based on bad intel... it wasn't bad intel on the part of those joining ISIS... no one ever lied to them as to why they were there, or what they were doing.

beansidhe:

We should not be calling for blood - I find that atrocious.

Like I said, your compassion is proportionate to your naivety. I'm not calling for blood, even though I used the word 'slaughtered' in my earlier post. I'm simply calling for their death. I'm not interested in them suffering the way their victims suffered, remember them, their victims, and the horrific manner they despatched them?

Perhaps, you think they made a mistake, easily done isn't it, to go fight for one's enemy? It's okay everyone, they made an error of judgement, all is forgiven, let them back in and give them another chance, after their experiences I'm sure they will make model citizens. Yeah right!

Of course, nothing can bring their victims back, but there certainly can be a reckoning and a consequence for their actions, and rightfully, that is to hunt them down and kill them, or incarcerate them for life, but under no circumstance should they ever be free to walk British streets again. IS crossed a line with their barbarity, and they should not be allowed to escape the consequences for doing so. So, if you are offended by my own opinions, I don't care...by all means, be offended.

If we let them re-enter who's going to foot the bill for their 'rehabilitation' would it be the taxpayers.

How much would it cost per person per year to imprison them? That's not including the court costs.

Why should the loyal British public have to pay for 'mistakes' they have made I'd rather my money be used for good like making sure hospitals schools and nursing homes stay open

Can you guarantee that we will we catch everyone returning I don't think we can. Even if one person slips through the net and murders someone that's one murder to many.

a reply to: elysiumfire

I'm not offended by your opinions, just a bit embarrassed for you. Did you read what I wrote in my posts? You seem to think I'm some sort of naive ISIS apologist, I'm not sure why.

Let them back in...arrest them and interrogate them so we get better intel which we can use against the #ing animals.

originally posted by: FearYourMind
It appears that ISIS is having inner conflicts and many fighters are fed up with fighting other radical factions rather than their original fight to eliminate Assad. This, along with U.S. intervention could be the demise of ISIS. Once considered a huge threat, ISIS is now breaking up, but the fighters are afraid to come home.

They damned well ought to be - at least the former Americans among them, as I can't speak for the Brits.

Some things you can never return from, because you carry them the rest of your days. You can never get away from them until the day you get away from yourself.

Members of Gomer's Boy would most definitely not be welcome in my neighborhood. Their most likely end would be to go POOF! and simply disappear. We have enough troubles here without importing that mess. Just as cancer has to be dealt with decisively, so would Gomer's Boys.

They better stay at home, their new home, where they can get away with that stupidity they keep doing.

They don't have a home here any more - they made their choice, crossed that bridge, and burned it down.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
Let them back in...arrest them and interrogate them so we get better intel which we can use against the #ing animals.

Yes a free ticket to the American holiday camp called GITMO and all the family too ,it is still open and needing new guest's that are more deserving of a bed

originally posted by: Astyanax

These are not dogs. They are human beings like you. They have mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters, possibly families of their own. They have hopes and fears, loves and hatreds, talents and tastes, just like you do.

And — judging by your statements — you have a lot more in common with them politically than you think you do.

No, they are not.

I may be questionable as to whether or not they are human, but they are most definitely NOT like me, human or not.

Humans like me do not cut the heads off of other people, and especially not the heads of children or innocents, simply because they or their parents choose a different form of relating to their god or gods.

Humans like me let their gods do their own fighting - after all, they are allegedly gods... what could a mere creature such as myself possibly do to defend a god that the god could not do itself? If I have to do my god's killing for him, he needs to start worshiping ME, because clearly I am more powerful than his pitiful self.

Humans like me do not go round crucifying people. Humans like me do not cut throats and take heads on camera so that we can have our 15 minutes of infamy.

No.

They are NOT "humans just like me".

The salient point behind this is 'understanding' and finding common ground to constructively engage with disenchanted UK youths – given that 400 or so young Brits are waging Jihad at the moment. The eye-for-an-eye biblical rhetoric won't solve anything. We really do need to talk as a nation and begin to understand.

a reply to: beansidhe

I have trouble calling them people after seeing how they behave. They aren't the same as the people I know, they are more like animals without higher levels of reason. I haven't always felt this way.

a reply to: dr1234

I know, and I know what you're saying. There is a part of me that finds their acts so abhorrent that I want to dissasociate them with me; that is to say they are not me, they are therefore not human, they are beneath human and should be culled.

The truth of the matter is that they are human and have made a choice. We need to be talking about this because wtf's going on? How come a lassie from Glasgow is now spouting rubbish on Twitter, having gone to fight in Syria? We are not going to solve this by hiding from it, or turning our backs.
I think it was Logarock who pointed out that we need to be finding out who on earth is encouraging these kids to go over? What are they saying? How are they 'hooking' them?

beansidhe:

...that is to say they are not me, they are therefore not human, they are beneath human and should be culled.

Exactly. It's an infectious thought...that they have lost all sense of humanity through their dedicated barbarism. It is why it is easy for me to suggest they should be clinically killed. I'm reacting to what they do, not what they claim for themselves. I've been down the road you're on, wanting to understand their raison d'etre, to seek the rehabilitation of monsters, rather than use any form of capital punishment.

That lassie from Scotland is very well educated, but she is also riddled with the religious programming of Islamic fundamentalism, and she has stated she has no desire to return home. As far as she is concerned, she is home. She is not worth saving, because she is beyond the pale. Fundamentalism in any shape or form is a mental disease, and the only way the afflicted can beat it is to come to their own senses by their own efforts in changing their mindset.

Islam is not just a religion, it is a culture, a social cohesion from the stone age, and utterly incompatible with Western cultures, which it seeks to destroy. It is an enemy, and it is amongst us.

Israel is a murderous regime, Hamas equally so. Israel reacts disproportionately without conscience on the Palestinian people in order to shock Hamas into ceasing firing rockets into Israel...but Hamas does not stop, no matter how brutal Israel responds, no matter how many Palestinians are killed. Hamas sees all the death and destruction the Palestinian people suffer due to them firing rockets into Israel, but it does not care. As far as Hamas is concerned, the Palestinian suffering is a worthy price to pay for the jihad.

There is no solution comprised of logic and reason, none at all, certainly not with religious fundamentalism, as it is their way or death. So, I respond in kind. You don't allow a rabid dog to run free and wild in a crowded shopping mall, you kill it before it can do any harm. It's a stark and real choice with no middle-ground, or moderate alternatives. It is irrelevant who created the monster that is Islamic fundamentalism, it is running amok, and needs to be put down. Not tolerated, not understood, just simply and clinically eradicated until there is no one left to carry the idea.

I would prefer it was Muslims themselves that dealt with it, but if they don't, the West will.

a reply to: FearYourMind

Its messed up really. These forces where fighting in Sryia they got funded by the west to do so. Then a couple of fake videos go around of US peeps getting beheaded and everyone hates them...

ATS peeps you can do better..

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

well put.. i dont see any difference between ISIS and the western forces that have been operating in the middle east.. well apart from the fact western forces have killed between 1-2 million civilians in the last two illegal wars

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: Soapusmaximus

As a Muslim, I believe anyone who was a member of ISIS should face the death penalty. Period.

Psychopaths don't even begin to cover what is wrong with those people - and I'll be damned if they are living next door to me...

The problem is ISIS are trying to unify many groups right now. Boko Haram just pledged allegiance to ISIS/al-Baghdadi and other have been doing so also.

So it's a matter of when do you ask your friends to let you out of the car??? If this Scottish girl is part of a group which is now being pressured to join ISIS, then perhaps things are a bit different.

The bottom line though, is she needs to pull her head out of her ass and get to making a damn decision. COntact the embassy/consulate, whoever. Surrender to other forces... etc. It happens in normal society all the time where someone who was just along for the ride ends up caught up in something bad. You have to use your head adn get out when you have the chance. Otherwise your failure to leave, does not absolve you of complicity for war crimes.

a reply to: paxnatus

I just KNEW someone would idiotically bring Obama into this.

This is about BRITISH Muslims, you know from Great BRITAIN?

Anyway, Abe Froman pretty much summed it up with the very first comment. After what they have done, there is NO excuse to be made. There should be no prison time because taxpayers shouldn't have to shell out any money for their care, leave them right where they are