‘Forced’ to fight: Disillusioned British ISIS Fighters Afraid to Come Home

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: beansidhe
She's Scottish, born and bred here. A couple of years ago she was a school girl.

And now she's an adult who abandoned her country and her morals to go off to mass murder innocent people. She's an untrustworthy murderous idiot - not exactly someone you want walking the streets.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

That's an understandable and entirely reasonable interpretation. Part of me agrees with that but another part of me recognises that some impressionable and idealistic young people thought that they would go to Syria and help to depose an evil dictator; and we are told in the west that deposing evil dictators is the right thing to do. Did this young woman murder anyone or take part in atrocities?

Mix that with worrying about people of the same religion or ethnic group abroad and it's easier to see young people being duped into "activism" abroad (be that fighting or aiding a cause in another way), and then when they get there gradually seeing the true horror of what they have got themselves into. I don't see to much difference between a duped youngster going to fight Assad and later realising that he's got it tragically wrong, and an idealistic young westerner joining the military to protect his country and then being given a job drone striking young goat herders or working in Abu Ghrayib - the end result in Is is more horrific (though only by margins in some cases) but the mechanics of recruitment and regret are very close.

It's a bloody difficult situation: do we recognise that people have made a genuine mistake and been hoodwinked by recruiters? We could give our young a second chance but at what potential cost? How do we ensure that those we allow back are genuinely contrite? Should we monitor or put them on a probation type system in some way?

I believe that we need to know our enemy, after all they know all about us. The right individuals could be a real asset.

a reply to: Power_Semi

I don't think I have ever agreed more with anything I have read before. The politicians are worse than this lot because they are happy to allow it and sponsor it for the good of their party. Bunch of corrupt, lying, sneaky, paedophile ba****ds.

originally posted by: skalla

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: beansidhe
She's Scottish, born and bred here. A couple of years ago she was a school girl.

And now she's an adult who abandoned her country and her morals to go off to mass murder innocent people. She's an untrustworthy murderous idiot - not exactly someone you want walking the streets.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

That's an understandable and entirely reasonable interpretation. Part of me agrees with that but another part of me recognises that some impressionable and idealistic young people thought that they would go to Syria and help to depose an evil dictator; and we are told in the west that deposing evil dictators is the right thing to do. Did this young woman murder anyone or take part in atrocities?

[snip]

This is the part that you missed in your logic:
If they were trying to do things according to Western values, then they should have joined the British military, not ISIS.

a reply to: MarkJS

Not if they do not trust the British Army and their commanders, which is entirely logical in the eyes of an idealistic young person. And they work more on emotion than logic.

originally posted by: Xeven

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: beansidhe

Do we just turn our backs on her, and refuse to allow her to come home?

Why yes, yes we do, ridiculous to mollycoddle these people

Put a bullet in her forehead to relieve the suffering.

So you advocate murder for young women whose views you do not share?
So what is the difference between you and ISIS?

a reply to: FearYourMind

LOLOLOLOLOLOL............Lets all point and laugh at the poor jihadists now > LOLOLOLOL



And even more lols because I just discovered that when you you type jihadists the spellcheck doesn't recognize it and only alternative is sadists lol how ironic.

a reply to: FlyersFan

And now she's an adult who abandoned her country and her morals to go off to mass murder innocent people. She's an untrustworthy murderous idiot - not exactly someone you want walking the streets.

We don't know if she's murdered anyone. She hasn't been brought back for trial yet, nor has she been arrested as far as I know.
If she steps foot in Scotland, she will be arrested on terrorism charges - she was daft enough to announce herself on Twitter.
I do not want to live in a country where citizenship can be revoked.
This is still her home and she should be allowed to come home, of course she should. What happens to her when she gets home is another matter, but she is Scottish and it is up to us to take responsibility for her and sort out this mess.

originally posted by: mclarenmp4
a reply to: beansidhe

The weegie girl also posted on twitter yesterday that she wished she was the one that behead the latest victim, so she gets absolutely no sympathy from me if she revels in the act of murder. That is someone who has an evil heart and is not welcome back in my country regardless if they made a youthful mistake. Evil is evil and i agree with the thinking that if you fight for a foreign army then you lose the right of citizenship for your home country.
She made her bed with ISIS and she can sleep with them for the rest of her existence for all I care.

That is a revolting thing to say (her, not you). Like I said earlier, I cannot understand her at all. She went to a public school and seems very privileged. She is a disgrace to Scotland, and in fact there was another fellow from Aberdeen went too. If she was my daughter she would be more frightened of her mother catching up with her in Syria than of any jihadi bloke.

But, there are plenty of Scottish murderers in Scotland already and we should deal with her exactly as we do with them. There is no difference. Locking the door and turning our back is not going to bring peace. The hard bit is sittiing down and talking and we need to do that if we want to raise our children in a peaceful nation.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: MarkJS

Not if they do not trust the British Army and their commanders, which is entirely logical in the eyes of an idealistic young person. And they work more on emotion than logic.

If they trust ISIS more than the army protecting the country that they reside in, then they should just leave said country and go there to join IS. Oh, my bad... they already did that. Guess they will reap what they sowed now.

a reply to: MarkJS

Well, they already are reaping what they sowed, my point is that in some cases impressionable, idealistic (and often fairly thick) young folk went there expecting one thing, and found that the truth was very different.

If people want those particular individuals exterminated for that, then they are murderous scum just like the majority of ISIS fighters seem to be.

a reply to: beansidhe

Do you honestly believe these "people" are capable of talking things out? It's a nice thought, and I wish this was a viable option, but I don't think it's realistic.

originally posted by: paxnatus
Oh I can see it now, The IS Brits cant go home....The French can't go home......The Ausies can't go home "oh I know.....

Let's all go to America...I heard that crazy President is letting anybody through over the Southern Border!!

Tell me I am wrong! I would not put it past Obozo at this point!!

pax

Because this is, of course, a thread about Obama.

beansidhe:

We don't know if she's murdered anyone.

Utterly irrelevant. She's committed treason by joining and promoting an enemy of Britain and the British people. She agrees with the IS ideology, and from statements she has made, she also agrees with their acts of mediaeval barbarism, implying that given both the chance and opportunity she would commit the same acts herself.

Your compassion is as much admirable and as it is naive, but you are not being more reasonable than any other poster. Nor are you being more merciful or more understanding. We all have the same perceiving faculties as you do, and I should think we all have the same compassion for our fellow human beings, but not for those that would seek to harm them.

No. This IS murderess-wannabe is beyond the pale now. Kill her over there, or incarcerate over here, but not just her, let us ensure every single one of them that have left our shores to fight for IS, either die there, or end up in prison here. Personally, because they are IS, I would prefer they were hunted down and slaughtered. Islamic fundamentalism, along with any other religious fundamentalism should be eradicated off the face of the planet. No debate. No understanding. Just get rid of them with extreme prejudice!

Wow they must be desperate!
I guess becoming an IS member is not what they imagined it would be.

So they leave their family, friends and country behind to become a member of IS and fight what they believe in.
They are so blind that they are even ready to barbarically murder innocent men, women, and children of any religion they don't agree with, and then what happens?

Well they find out that they are being used for something else and now want a card blanche.
These people deserve jail, and never to see a green field or the sun again!

They left their homeland knowing what is expected of them, and they were willing to do so. (Sadistically murder people)
I don't feel sorry for them one bit, because if I were in Syria they'd probably hunt me down and kill me for being a westerner or not being sunni.

They wouldn't give us any mercy, so why should we?
They deserve much worse than jail, but we have to follow the law... to remain human and not animals like they are.

originally posted by: abe froman
You don't get to come home. You made your bed...now die in it.

Could not agree more, they went to another country to kill people in order to create there own idea of a utopia over the sacrificed lives of innocent people who they were not in conflict with but went there to specifically be in conflict with, they picked the fight and they were intent on murder and mayhem, why would we ever under any circumstances and not just us any country ever want these people who are an obvious internal danger when they are in our country to ever come back here, I say chuck the load of these radical's out and vehemantly disagree with cameron who has said they will not lose there british nationality as that is one thing they have most certainly proven they do not value.

Any soldier in the proper army or any other service is told when abroad act with respect to the other culture and remember you are an ambassador for your nation, well this is not there nation, it never was and they merely obtained a passport or were born second or third generation into self formed enclaves of an alien culture within our western nation's.

Not all are like this and they who are not are welcome but for any that are I truly would send there whole family home and revoke there british citizenship, as they have acted and spoken in a treasonous fashion to us as well and provided monetary (Aid and succour) support to idiologically anti british agency's abroad and at home they should also be deprived of all they have made in our economy and the money thus siezed correctly sent to help our crippled soldiers some of who were injured or even killed with weapons and training provided by fund's sent from groups such as the finsbury park mosque radical's under Abu Hamza.

As for our native son's that have Joined this anti british cause they at the very least need a radical deprogramming regime to break the hold of the cult and to be monitored closely for years after, they also if worse, i.e. guilty of these crime's here or abroad should have the full weight of the law thrown at them with a distinctly un merciful by the book judge to hand out the correct justice for there victim's, bring back the black cloth and the trap door for these traitor's and I as well as a great many other's would happily pull the lever.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
....guilty of these crime's here or abroad should have the full weight of the law thrown at them with a distinctly un merciful by the book judge...

Hey they all want Sharia law - lets give them that - they'll probably be stoned to death then.

Win - Win for everybody.

One other thing about the state of the UK.

This story: www.mirror.co.uk...

Woman found stabbed to death in field where she had gone to tend her horses.

They've just arrested 3 people but haven't released any details yet about who they are - one is for murder, one for assisting an offender, the 3rd for trying to pervert the course of justice.

I'll bet you a pound to a penny that they are immigrants too, probably Eastern Europeans.

Hip hip hussar for diversity.

a reply to: FearYourMind

Ideology is a tricky thing - nationalism - religion. That fire people feel to right wrongs - protect their own. Loyalty is a catch 22 sometimes

I wonder how people who aren't us see our invasions? How do they feel about the guns, bombs - drones... People wounded, dismembered - killed. Infrastructure destroyed - people displaced, without homes, work - healthcare. Lost children, parents, siblings - husbands and wives - lovers and friends

How many people cared about what was happening to people in Syria, Iraq - that entire region?

How many things are called war crimes when we're the ones doing those things? How many men and women enlisted after 9/11?

We look at ISIS and call them them monsters. And they are

How many of our soldiers come home from the war disillusioned, confused - heartbroken and sick over all of it?

Any group of people can be monsters - we all have our reasons

originally posted by: dr1234
a reply to: beansidhe

Do you honestly believe these "people" are capable of talking things out? It's a nice thought, and I wish this was a viable option, but I don't think it's realistic.

These "people" are people. We have to talk and listen, because that is what works. It has to be an option. It took years in Northern Ireland, but it stopped the slaughter.

a reply to: beansidhe

Bang on there... i know folk who had the most horrific and repeated punishment beatings for puerile reasons, doors kicked in and friends riddled with bullets etc. It's only when folk finally realised that continuing the cycle of revenge and blame ensured more killings on both sides that more peeps started to believe that a certain amount of forgiveness and understanding could move things towards peace. All ain't cured over there, but it's a massive step forwards.

Bomb the feg out of an advancing IS force, be my guest folks... but target aggression wisely or this is never going to end.