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‘Forced’ to fight: Disillusioned British ISIS Fighters Afraid to Come Home

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posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: OpinionatedB & nenothtu

Yes, but when you support dealing with them in such an unjust way you are not helping the cause of Muslims in the West. On the contrary, you're reinforcing prejudices that are already widely prevalent there.



I for one don't care so much about helping the cause of Muslims in "the west" so much as I want to preserve "the west" for there to be Muslims in, so that there is a place they can run to. "Unjust" is, perhaps, a matter of opinion - I'm not sure that any justness is merited by a people who have done what ISIS has... but if it is, then there really isn't much we can do to equal them in order to mete out "justice". I think simple eradication is sufficient, because I'm not in it for revenge (which is, after all, the whole idea behind so-called "justice").

Preservation involves only the erasure of every single ISIS fighter - "justice" includes that, but then extends it to erasure by horrific and torturous methods in order for it to be "just". I'm not up for that.




Certainly, if you say so. But if you're not a Muslim why did you reply that post?


because the implication of the "western" prejudice you mentioned was that only Muslims can be bloodthirsty scoundrels, which is, of course, not so -- I'm living proof, as I said - or, you could say it was in solidarity with my "bloodthirsty scoundrel" Muslim brethren who are "bloodthirsty scoundrels" simply because the idea of dying is so distasteful to them. You see, they are perhaps a little closer to the problem, may have a somewhat more concrete understanding of the ramifications, than many other "westerners" who want to class them as "bloodthirsty scoundrels".

While they are busy being bloodthirsty scoundrels, there are a whole lot of westerners who will be saying "Wait, Mr. ISIS - you don't really want kill me -you're just misundersto---- GAAACK!" - "western" civilization won't last long like that, which is, I suspect, something that ISIS would like to see... that's what THEY say, anyhow.

Besides, you said "bloodthirsty scoundrel" like it was a BAD thing!




I addressed a post specifically to you earlier on; perhaps you missed it, or didn't regard it as worth a response. Anyway, my position vis-à-vis your own was spelled out in it — briefly.



If you mean this one :



Since you propose to 'live by the sword' with respect to these young people, I suppose you, too, are prepared to die by it?


... then the answer is "yes". It's not like I'll be given a choice in the matter, so it's always best to be prepared.

If instead you mean this one, then I did answer it, here.

I could find no more posts from you that could conceivably have involved me. If I somehow missed it, please point it out.




Joining the belligerent chorus for their co-religionists' hides is — to quote you — doing it wrong.



What do you think would be "doing it right" - giving them warm milk before putting them down for a nap? I'm up for that if you are - you give 'em the milk, I'll put 'em down for the nap... teamwork can be a great thing - we could build some bridges here!

BTW - calling ISIS their "co-religionsists" is not going to be the best way to win hearts and influence people in the Islamic world, because quite a number of them are going to take offense at the characterization of someone who has hijacked their religion, and who would kill them in a heartbeat over their religion, as a "co-religionist". They'll probably see that as an attempt to legitimize ISIS as actual Muslims rather than takfiri, and that isn't going to play well. Just a heads-up, but do as you see fit.




edit on 2014/9/7 by nenothtu because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 04:38 PM
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These people are unhappy in our countries, fine, move on.

They don't like how we live, fine, don't live with us.

Same decisions we have to make when we live elsewhere, perhaps in your country, well, nobody forces me to stay there.

Personally I blame parenting if they feck up their kids this bad, well, that's one big fecked up parenting. Where else does this come from?

Perhaps they miss their XBOX and big screen TV with Sky satallite or cable. That is why why want to come back.

Their big fancy BMW cars, jewlry, etc.

Nice house, big bed, lots of social benefits.



Glad to hear they are AFRAID to come home, they should be.

Perhaps somebody should put bounties on their heads, or their familes heads if they DO return.

If they do return, call them out publically, name and shame their families. Facebook tag them and more.

Everywhere they go.

Don't do business with them or their families, don't sell them anything, don't buy from their shops, where they own or work in.

It is very easy to get somebody to leave



edit on 7-9-2014 by jajaja because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: beansidhe

Jihadi John sounds British, but looks Asian. At least 3 of the Jihadis arrested in North Carolina a few years back not only looked European - blonde haired, blue-eyed, yadda yadda yadda, but they also sounded um... hillbilly - they had the local accent, having been born and raised there. The other North Carolinian arrested just the other day upon return also looked European, but in a much bulkier, beefier sort of way, since he was a body builder and former sheriff's deputy. Also born and bred in NC.

The one who overdosed a couple of weeks ago after his return also looked distinctly American, although he had an Arab-sounding last name, no Arab ancestry could be found. He had also been in on the Muslim Brotherhood's conquest of Egypt, during the so-called "Arab Spring". he ran into a bit of trouble with Egyptian authorities, and evidently spent a little time in one of their coolers. That one, I'm pretty sure, was Brotherhood to the core - he kept showing up at Muslim Brotherhood sponsored kill-fests until he showed up dead at home.

No, I'm not celebrating, but I'm not grieving, either. I'm a prick like that.

The CAIR spokesman, Ibrahim Hooper, looks like a guy I used to go fishing with deep in the Appalachian mountains Ameri-Euro as could be.

Not long ago, there was a drive to radicalize non-Arab looking Muslims in at least the US and Eastern Europe, in order to get more troops in under the radar. probably other countries as well, to enhance their base of local operatives.

I don't think appearance has much to do with it any more.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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Threaten to cover them or their families in pigs blood on their return, that should prevent them returning.



They're kinda thick that way and would believe in that kinda thing.

Use their beliefs against them


Only way to win and to be sure.


edit on 7-9-2014 by jajaja because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: paxnatus

SURE ,absolutely COME ON over we have ALOT of former criminals over here. OH by the way just a LITTLE thing really ,I would BURY your passed if YOU have worked for ISIS. we are HEAVLY armed and pissed.
I'm sure NO ANGEL myself by virtue of war and I would take OFFENSE to the professional EXTREME if confronted with a militant, personally.
Course most people just take a look, shut up and get away from me anyway...



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: DarknStormy

THEN get over here but JUST GET USED to DESERTS and Mountains,our coastal areas are mostly oocupied by HIGHLY progressive elements and over populated.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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originally posted by: jajaja

Perhaps they miss their XBOX and big screen TV with Sky satallite or cable. That is why why want to come back.

Their big fancy BMW cars, jewlry, etc.

Nice house, big bed, lots of social benefits.




That did cross my mind too



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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nvm...
edit on 7-9-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 09:52 PM
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I don't think they should have the option to come home, they turned enemy to their country. I have heard stories of people being beheaded in the UK, if may be part if their plan to infiltrate back into the enemy's land (U.K.)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: nenothtu
Well - we did pretty well Nenothtu - no blood drawn - good for us

Not really too much to argue with, and I don't have it in me, so I'll just leave with this:


The current situation is not about either vengeance or justice. It's about preservation.

Seems to me that the entire Iraq war happened in the name of preservation. We aren't always honest, and we are never clairvoyant - there has to be a better way


You are correct in that it's a war without borders, which is a whole new ball game in the grand scheme of things.


It's unbelievable what we are facing now. Saints preserve us

edit on 9/7/2014 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:46 AM
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a reply to: beansidhe


I'm wondering if these fighters looked Scottish/British (ie white) if there would be a different response. I don't know, just wondering if they seem more 'other' and so less local.

I imagine this has a very great deal to do with it.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu


What do you think would be "doing it right" - giving them warm milk before putting them down for a nap?

Is this some clodhopping attempt at humour?

I already answered the question you ask, in my very first post on this thread.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:56 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: nenothtu

Is this some clodhopping attempt at humour?



Clodhoppers are way to the east of here, down in the flatlands. That was more of a woodsrunner comment than a clodhopper one. I don't speak clodhopper very well, not having had sufficient practice.




I already answered the question you ask, in my very first post on this thread.



How very strange. It really looked like your very first post was that exact solution, minus the allowing ME to put them down for their nap!

I'm not sure what country you're in, so you may think that the solution you present is viable - and perhaps it is, depending on your country. I'm pretty sure that it wouldn't work (not as stated, anyhow) in either the UK or the US, as it does violence to the entire concepts of "jurisdiction" and "rule of law".

What it does, for the uninformed, is leave the gate open just long enough for them to slip back in, THEN make the admission they can't be prosecuted AFTER they have already slipped back into the population and hidden pretty well. It is a "get out of jail free" proposal.

S'ok, though. You can welcome them into your neighborhood if you want, and see how that goes, because I'm nearly certain none of them will show up in mine, and if they do, they won't be here long. If I were you, though, I'd keep an eye on how much fertilizer they buy when they decide to become "farmers" in your neighborhood...


edit on 2014/9/8 by nenothtu because: of spelling



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 08:43 AM
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originally posted by: whyamIhere
People are easily misled.

They went over there thinking they were fighting for God.

I have compassion for young people making mistakes.

But, this was a big mistake...Not sure I want them in my neighborhood.


This.

A Thousand times over.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:33 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu


How very strange. It really looked like your very first post was that exact solution, minus the allowing ME to put them down for their nap!

If that is what you gleaned from my post, why ask again?



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: Hr2burn
I don't think they should have the option to come home, they turned enemy to their country. I have heard stories of people being beheaded in the UK, if may be part if their plan to infiltrate back into the enemy's land (U.K.)



Their dream home is Islamic Wonderland™, that is why they went there.

Maybe some businesses can turn it into a themepark, with lots of rides fun for the whole family, hey kids, lets go on the Murder Jolly Run™.

Hey kids, wave to Mohamed Mouse™.


edit on 8-9-2014 by jajaja because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

I wonder why you are more concerned with your "image" than concerned with the after effects of bringing people back into the country when they have willingly been on murdering, torturing raping and slaving rampages against anyone and everyone who may disagree with their flavor of religion.

it's definitely too late for them, your not going to sit and tell them how wonderful the joys of freedom are - they want nothing to do with it. Actions speak louder than words.

I couldn't care less about my image. They are sons of the shaytan - not my "co" anything. More than my image will be hurt if they come back into this country and start killing innocent people here.

Their actions spoke for them, and my actions will answer. My answer isn't to play Mr. Nice Guy to a bunch of crazy terrorists. I'm Muslim, not a Quaker. I believe in self defense.

But you go ahead and fight for their cause. At least we know where your allegiances are.

If you aren't for preserving our freedom and way of life here, then you are against having it. Turning a blind eye and letting murdering fanatics back into the country, isn't how it's done.
edit on 8-9-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:08 AM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: nenothtu


How very strange. It really looked like your very first post was that exact solution, minus the allowing ME to put them down for their nap!

If that is what you gleaned from my post, why ask again?


Just checking to see if you've come up with an actual, workable plan that doesn't involve unleashing Islamists on your own country.

I see you haven't, though.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: jajaja

originally posted by: Hr2burn
I don't think they should have the option to come home, they turned enemy to their country. I have heard stories of people being beheaded in the UK, if may be part if their plan to infiltrate back into the enemy's land (U.K.)



Their dream home is Islamic Wonderland™, that is why they went there.

Maybe some businesses can turn it into a themepark, with lots of rides fun for the whole family, hey kids, lets go on the Murder Jolly Run™.

Hey kids, wave to Mohamed Mouse™.



You jest (I think!) but there really WAS a Mickey-Mouse spinoff... he was on Palestinian TV for a while, teaching kids how to properly hate Israelis. They called him "Mickey Shaheed" or something like that.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: nenothtu


Just checking to see if you've come up with an actual, workable plan that doesn't involve unleashing Islamists on your own country.

I see you haven't, though.

You seem to think we are having an argument, or a debate, or something. You are sadly mistaken.







 
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