It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Here’s How the Price of Your Favorite Fast Food Would Change With a $15 Minimum Wage

page: 20
27
<< 17  18  19    21  22  23 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 09:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: Oudoceus
The prices won't be that high. Why? Because there will just be one or two management types working to keep the automated food machines full.a reply to: TDawgRex



These machines are already more cost effective than minimum wage employees. Raising the minimum wage doesn't suddenly change this from being a fact. We've been slow to adopt robotics in the food industry in the US, other nations like China (which also has much lower wages) are already doing it on a much more widespread scale.

Unless we drop the minimum wage to about 5 cents an hour this is still going to be the case. So why worry about trying to have human labor compete with mechanical labor? It's not going to happen and it has never happened. Instead focus on what the people who do have jobs are making. Automation phasing out employment opportunities is another issue entirely.
edit on 7-9-2014 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 09:58 PM
link   
And to add. Yes, those were also the places with the largest housing bubbles, and again, that was a situation of banks and builders taking advantage of the working class who in those places had more disposable income and still a separate issue, but one of predatory practices of the have against the have nots.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:00 PM
link   
Correlation, causation, blather. Please show places with higher minimum wage and the catastrophic economies. That is what you are predicting, correct? Just show us one.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:03 PM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Aazadan

What you are trying to do is show correlation and call it causation. Our economy was better and as a result wages and buying power was better. It's the same reason I am avoiding anything with 2008, because while I can get numbers to back me up, it's disingenuous. I still can't find cost of living info for 2000-2010 and it's annoying.


They go hand in hand. A nation can't have a strong economy while only a few at the top are acting as consumers and have all of the wealth. Lower wealth inequality (a smaller wealth gap, part of which involves minimum wage) leads to more of the population participating meaningfully in the economy which creates jobs. With job creation and a population of consumers the economy is strong.

You can't have a strong economy when 90% of the population has no money to spend, look at any typical banana republic type nation, or virtually all of Africa for examples of this... that's what our economy is heading towards.

If the numbers you're looking for are the numbers I think you're looking for the problem is that while they are collected the government has a policy to not publish them. At best you're going to find an independent estimate which has no official numbers to work off of. It has been against policy to publish this information since 1982. This actually has some pretty scary ramifications for our banking sector if you think about it, since CPI is an important number in calculating inflation rates.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:03 PM
link   
Forget it. We have asked again and again but no one can show a single real world example demonstrating the veracity of your claims. I think this discussion can finally be concluded. Across our whole world not one example can be shown where giving higher wages to the poor results in catastrophe for the economy, yet many examples show higher wages being beneficial for all. This case can, I think, be closed.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: Aazadan
They go hand in hand.

Exactly. So as our economy went down the drain so too did spending power of the dollar and a host of other things. Now you want to claim the problem is our minimum wage is too low ... not the fact we have outsourced our economy and all the other reasons we don't have a 1950's economy anymore.

If you can find the info about 2000-2005 cost of living let me know, usually I do not have trouble finding information, this is ridiculously hard to find.
edit on 7-9-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 10:29 PM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Exactly. So as our economy went down the drain so too did spending power of the dollar and a host of other things. Now you want to claim the problem is our minimum wage is too low ... not the fact we have outsourced our economy and all the other reasons we don't have a 1950's economy anymore.


My claim is that minimum wage is part of the problem. We must have a higher minimum wage but that doesn't solve all of the issues, we also need upward mobility which involves having real industry back in the nation in order to create career paths.

One of the issues with career paths however is the issue of geometric progression with a stagnant population. Lets use a hypothetical management ratio of 10:1 which means each level of progress is managing 10 people below them. If we start with an initial 10 people and they all progress in their career there needs to be 100 people to replace them. In order for them to progress another level there needs to be another 1000 people added to the company. Because rates of population increase can't support these types of numbers, it becomes an inevitable fact that some people will never progress beyond the entry level.

Minimum wage ensure that these people who will never progress in their wages are still able to afford to live. With higher upward mobility there are fewer of these people but there are still some nevertheless.

Where you seem to be getting mixed up is you think that a good economy creates good wages and it's not the case. The two are related but higher wages is the cause while the strong economy is the effect. The same is true in reverse, a decrease in the purchasing power of wages leads to a decline in the economy. We have virtually all of the 2000's to look at as proof of this. That's a decade where the stock market hit high after high, yet we had runaway inflation and stagnant wages which has lead to our current situation. It was also a time of considerable increase in wealth inequality and an economy that for the most part simply spun it's wheels (ignoring 2008 where it became a train wreck).

If you can't refute the claim with numbers (because they don't exist), maybe try providing some examples where a nation has had a roaring economy despite a low minimum wage? I'll even give you a hint to start looking, try Singapore which has virtually no social safety net and no minimum wage yet is one of the richest countries with 80% of the population (or more) in the middle class. They also happen to have a great school system with free education relying heavily on skilled labor. Just as an aside, they also happen to do this with an effective corporate tax rate of 17% compared to the us effective rate of 12.6%.
edit on 7-9-2014 by Aazadan because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 11:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Aazadan

And I claim the opposite. We need a more robust economy which can increase pay while retaining buying power.

I don't care about other countries. Apples to oranges. I am looking for data about COLA/CPI in cities that had high minimum wage increases from 2000-2008 (such as San Francisco in 2004). That will compare apples and apple orchards, things actually related. Anything else would introduce so many confounding variables it would be a 20 page paper to prove what min. wage contributed.
edit on 7-9-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 11:09 PM
link   

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I am looking for data about COLA/CPI in cities that had high minimum wage increases from 2000-2008 (such as San Francisco in 2004). That will compare apples and apple orchards, things actually related.


And here's the problem with that methodology, if you can find the numbers: CPI doesn't compare apples to apples. Lets say that in the year 2002 CPI says people spent $6/day on food, $2/meal. In 2003 they also spent $6/day on food but it was $3/meal, essentially the person eats 50% less because of cost increases. With the way CPI is measured no change is marked between the years 2002 and 2003 because the person still spent the same amount so it goes on the books at 0% food inflation, not 50% food inflation.

This is why you can't compare CPI numbers post 1982, and why minimum wage being too low (even though it's indexed to CPI inflation rates) is becoming more and more of an issue.



posted on Sep, 7 2014 @ 11:49 PM
link   
a reply to: Aazadan

You forget I said COLA. And it is more like comparing red apples to green apples. Not perfect, but much better than comparing the US to other countries.
edit on 7-9-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:14 AM
link   
I still call bs. If what you postulate is true, then you should be able to point out at least one place in history or in the world where raising the minimum wage led to a decrease in jobs, our an equal increase in prices across the board, or any of the other things you predict. School dropouts, people foregoing education to flip burgers, the sky falling and such. a reply to: OccamsRazor04



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:20 AM
link   
Compare it to anything, just show us some supporting evidence, or drop it. We give you some examples, which are legitimate, and you cast aspersions to their validity. Fine. But they are the only examples we have to go on, which means they are the best indicator, and there is no reason, honestly, to doubt their accuracy. You, on the other hand, have nothing. Not a single example, even of an Orange or strawberry to compare to an Apple. In the lack of any evidence whatsoever tying increasing minimum wage to a decrease in economy, I have to declare your argument baseless.


edit on 8-9-2014 by pexx421 because: typo



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:24 AM
link   
a reply to: pexx421

I can easily show you high min wage states had a more difficult time recovering from the recent bad economy, but that is not what I am saying here, I am not talking about jobs.

If you can find data on COLA/CPI going back to about 2000 let me know. I have no idea why it's so difficult to find. It's not a case of I don't want to post the data, it's a case of it does not seem to be easily available, which is very odd.

If you can show me where in history a country in a similar economic situation the US is in nearly doubled their min. wage instantly you can show me that too. I do not believe what you are asking me to show you has ever happened.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 12:56 AM
link   
No, I believe you stated that if minimum wage was 15$ an hour everyone would choose to be burger flippers, and medical costs would soar by 30-50 percent. So....there are countries where minimum wage is about 15 an hour (Germany, Australia, parts of Canada, soon Washington) and yet their main product is not a well made burger, and I believe that their medical costs for the most part are quite a bit lower than ours.


edit on 8-9-2014 by pexx421 because: typo



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:03 AM
link   
Your original point was not that "places with higher minimum wage recover from bank fraud and corrupt financial shenanigans slower". It was that "minimum wage that is so ridiculously high that it covers basic necessities will make everyone want to make burgers and drop out of school. Miners will riot, nurses will demand 37$ an hour......it will be chaos!!"



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:12 AM
link   

originally posted by: pexx421
No, I believe you stated that if minimum wage was 15$ an hour everyone would choose to be burger flippers, and medical costs would soar by 30-50 percent. So....there are countries where minimum wage is about 15 an hour (Germany, Australia, parts of Canada, soon Washington) and yet their main product is not a well made burger, and I believe that their medical costs for the most part are quite a bit lower than ours.



Give me a minute to research and I will reply.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:15 AM
link   

originally posted by: pexx421
Your original point was not that "places with higher minimum wage recover from bank fraud and corrupt financial shenanigans slower". It was that "minimum wage that is so ridiculously high that it covers basic necessities will make everyone want to make burgers and drop out of school. Miners will riot, nurses will demand 37$ an hour......it will be chaos!!"


If that is what you got you may need to read it again.

Anyways here is my reply as promised. Germany min. wage is $11, not $15.

Australia! $16.87. I have no idea at all what these numbers will come out to ... give me a few minutes to research.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:49 AM
link   
ETA: Lots to read, if you don't want to skip to the end.

Entry level position with a 4yr degree where I work make 70% more than min wage, or about $5. ($7.25 vs. $12.40)

Using the Aussie $16.87 if we were to keep the same "4 year degree earning advantage" that same position would have to earn $28 an hour. If we keep the same $5 the benefit of a college degree is cut down to a 29% increase over the lowest unskilled high school dropout jobs.

Starting nursing salary is double that, $25, or 345% higher than min wage, $17.75 higher. In order to keep the same advantage nurses would need to make $58 an hour % wise, or $34.50 if we just dollar benefit. That would put nurses at only twice the pay of high school dropouts.

It's quite clear that there is no way Australia is paying people proper wages. I can guarantee you that no starting salary nurse makes $58, or even $35.

Lo and behold ... RN only makes $30-$35 AVERAGE salary, which means starting pay is quite a bit lower, probably $25 the same where I live which is less than most places in the US, about 30% less.
www.livingin-australia.com...

Medical secretary ... $25-$35. Almost the same as a nurse!!! This is what happens when dropouts make almost $17 an hour, you have to increase every other job so people who should be making $15-$20 to start make much more than they should.
www.livingin-australia.com...

So basically the middle class is screwed and their wages are SIGNIFICANTLY LOWERED to offset the cost of an extremely high minimum wage.

This is the result .... EVERYTHING costs a fortune in Australia due to an obscenely high min. Wage. Raise it to $15 in the USA and you will see the same thing, EXACTLY as I said.

Consumer Prices in United States are 32.40% lower than in Australia

Consumer Prices Including Rent in United States are 34.06% lower than in Australia

Rent Prices in United States are 37.43% lower than in Australia

Restaurant Prices in United States are 33.12% lower than in Australia

Groceries Prices in United States are 25.16% lower than in Australia

Local Purchasing Power in United States is 21.65% higher than in Australia

www.numbeo.com...
edit on 8-9-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-9-2014 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 01:57 AM
link   

originally posted by: TDawgRex
a reply to: TrueBrit
... I specifically said I do not want a Chevy and prefer that it wasn't Red in color either. So what did I get? A FLIPPIN" RED CHEVY! "It's all we have right now." I was told. Bad omens Bro, bad omens. The customer is always right has seemed to gone by the wayside here in the States.



I just had to comment on your post because you have the same skill I do- 'Backwards Law of Attraction', lol! It doesn't seem to matter WHAT it is.. the Universe will always bring me exactly what I don't want! lmao- Usually with frightening accuracy! oh and don't bother trying to 'reverse' what you really want , that doesn't work either


As to the issue...Yee--whatta world eh? I wasn't going to tell my situation but I have been barely subsisting on 5-600$ a month for YEARS now. Got laid off during the beginning of this mess (company was sold), could not find a decent job that wouldn't actually cost me money to take (basically- working for the gas to get there and home), so went back to school and work part-time and odd jobs as I'm working through school to get a geospatial science degree. I'm telling you- it's amazing what you can learn to live without. I cannot even get food stamps because I cannot get the hours needed to qualify while you are in school! (no more than 23 and no less than 20) The kicker- I must take an internship to complete part of my certification, which atm pays much less than 15/hr. I really don't know how it's going to end up at this point.



posted on Sep, 8 2014 @ 08:44 AM
link   
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Then manage your money better. If everyone making a living wage means everyone has to buy a little less because prices are higher that's fine because you can get what you really need. You don't have a right to over consume at the expense of an underclass that has to be tax payer subsidized just to survive.

I'm living in it, in America- everyone who wants a job has one, the people in general are healthier and I see less obesity, I don't see beggars and predators roaming the streets, and the middle class is doing fine. It works this way because labor is in demand from lucrative industries - the economic system isn't based on a million people competing for the wasteful spending of the lucky few but on everyone producing something universally valuable, like fuel food and housing. Instead of having three dairy queens in a 10 mile radius we've got a working society.

Outlaw hacking the economic system and force an economy based on people producing and trading the things they all need. It's exactly what we'd naturally do to survive if we weren't living in a crumbling fantasy world. It's not rocket science until some 3rd generation rich kid spends 7 years at Harvard making up excuses for why he should be born with everything while people across town go hungry.



new topics

top topics



 
27
<< 17  18  19    21  22  23 >>

log in

join