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Common Core Is Like A Hangover

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posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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First off - I know a lot of you dislike Fox News, but I ask that you give this a chance and listen to it before you dismiss it. It's not political in nature at all, but does show a teacher going over the way 9+6 should be added together correctly. NOT the way we were taught, but the way Common Core seeks to teach our children to do it.

I saw this clip earlier today as this is the only show besides Redeye that I watch on Fox News. I do admit to a certain fondness for Mr. Gutfeld. Don't judge me.

Anyway...

This is a clip from The Five where Greg Gutfeld is doing a segment on Common Core and adding 9+6.

My apologies for not being able to embed this video. It's around 5 minutes long.

video.foxnews.com...

I watched this segment feeling like I should have a string of stupidity drool just dripping from my chin. Now maybe it's because I always had a little more difficulty with math than others, I don't know.... but THIS...THIS seems to just be the epitome of taking something simple and making it WAY more complicated than it should be.

My daughter is in the 11th grade this year and is done with math all together until college thankfully. She always had a bit of a rough time with math like I did. She watched this with the same look on her face that I did.

What is the point of this? Does anybody know? Why all of the sudden do we need to teach kids to not add 9+6, but decompose the six, anchor the one, break it down, nick nack paddy wack... You get my drift. It's making it way more complicated than it needs to be so why is it being sold as a good idea??

Are that many kids having that much difficulty with basic math? And if they are, how in the hell is adding another 5 or 6 steps to it going to make it any easier? This just seems completely asinine to me.

We don't have common core here yet, so I will not ever have to worry about it, for those of you that do.... What do you think of this? What do you think of CC in general??
edit on 9/4/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 11:09 PM
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I used to work with kids who had number sense problems, and we would break down numbers to isolated ones and blocks of ten all the time. BUT, those kids had a learning disability, and needed to be able to visualize their numbers and learn strategies that would let them break their numbers down to visualize them. This is basically sort of taking something like that approach and assuming that if we use it for all kids, we'll catch the kids who have trouble with the concept of numbers.

The problem is that you overly complicate it for the ones who get the idea of what "9" and "6" mean without needing to isolate, decompose, and anchor. Those kids are going to get bored or really confused or both and you might wind up with no one learning anything because the kids we were working with were being taught intensively one-on-one and with more strategies than just things like this.

I would say this is yet more dumbing down, but that's not true either. It's more like the alienating of education.
edit on 4-9-2014 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 11:13 PM
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a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I tutored math at the college level, and in the private sector. I honestly wasn't that shocked when I looked at the common core. Yes they're making things more complicated, but they are trying to instill skills to make mathematical thinking easier in the long run.

Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding. Let's see how kids who were taught this stuff score on tests years later. If its up, its a win. If its down, its a loss. Until that point, I'm not interested in hearing about how it makes things more short term complex for kids and teachers.



posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 11:18 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I thank you for your reply as I had no idea it would be taught that way to anyone. I can see where it might benefit some as you pointed out, but I was getting confused myself trying to understand what they were doing today while I watched. I kept thinking kids everywhere were just going to hate math a little bit more now. I would have been completely lost in school had they gone that route, as it would have made something difficult for me.... even more difficult.

I mean, I'm not stupid. I can add, subtract, and the rest...but I struggled with it like I've never struggled with any other subject. I feel like adding all of that to it, would have made my brain want to congeal over. Seriously.

Like you, I am confused as to what the end goal is here.



posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 11:22 PM
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originally posted by: tridentblue
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

I tutored math at the college level, and in the private sector. I honestly wasn't that shocked when I looked at the common core. Yes they're making things more complicated, but they are trying to instill skills to make mathematical thinking easier in the long run.

Ultimately, the proof will be in the pudding. Let's see how kids who were taught this stuff score on tests years later. If its up, its a win. If its down, its a loss. Until that point, I'm not interested in hearing about how it makes things more short term complex for kids and teachers.


Well, I suppose it's no loss to them to use these children as some kind of case study. No harm in gambling if it's not your money at any rate. I'm glad I won't have to deal with it either way, I just hope it doesn't cause other people's children undue hardships to the point where they fail so much that they quit trying. I think they have lowered the standards too far already and that has hurt the overall education of many. Maybe they feel like now is as good of a time as any to take it a step further.




posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Gotta put the blame on the people who allowed common core to to exist (and then put the blame on the people whoallowed the people who allowed common core to exist, and so on.) I live with my sister's family, a 10 yr old nephew, 13 yr old niece, and 2 yr old niece. I see a difference in the level of knowledge I had against the level of knowledge they have, and I can only think of common core. And I thought I was stupid.... These kids... may glob help us.



posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 11:56 PM
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a reply to: thirdcoast

You can tell a difference. I can at any rate (and you admit to it as well). My daughter was not taught near the amount of history (on top of other things) that we were. I don't know if it's done because they don't think it's important anymore, or if there is a more sinister reason for it. Who knows??

I just know that there have been many times where I have referenced something and she's asking What? Only to find out they never taught it. That happened the first time quite a few years ago, that's when we started doing some home schooling along with the public schooling.

She's an "A" student so I know that all instances are not caused by her lack of attention in class. We've always been pretty strict on that because you always want better for your kids than you had.

It's distressing and nobody wants to think that their child isn't going to receive a proper education. I know that folks say that you should home school if you are that concerned about it...but you really shouldn't have to. You used to not feel like you had to.

My daughter has this year and one semester next year and she will graduate early. I will not have to deal with common core at all and I am thankful for it. But I still don't want other children to have to suffer because of it just because mine isn't.
edit on 9/5/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:13 AM
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I actually learned similar to that. And I was thinking the same as above. When math problems get more complecated you do math trees. Not like exactly like that but, it won't be so difficult for students used to that.

My only issue is my kids don't memorize anything. There's no longer a need the teachers say. If there's no longer a need why does everything take sooooooo long?!



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:14 AM
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S&F for an interesting topic.

I am actually pretty good at math, I tend to count and group things for no apparent reason...some call it OCD, I just call it messing with numbers.

I have weird 'rules' that I use that are actually similar to the example presented in the OP clip, but these rules are things that I have developed on my own. They were not taught to me.

!! DISCLAIMER/WARNING !!
Math should never be taught/approached in the following method. It is only for those who have a desire to make simple things difficult to a degree of borderline sadomasochism.

You have been warned!

The most basic rule that I often use is similar to the 'anchoring' described here, but my method is more like:

You have 9 + 6 = x
10 is easier (faster) to work with
Making it 10 + 6 = x + 1
I do the math, getting 16 but I know that I have an additional 1 in there, so I just subtract the 1.

It takes more time to explain than just counting on your fingers (if someone is really that bad with numbers there is no shame in using the tried-and-true finger counting method) but the technique (in my experience) comes in handy when you are working with larger numbers and don't have a pen/paper handy.

You have 96 + 43 = x
I would make it 100 + 43, and make note that I did a +4, making it 100 + 40 = x + 4.
100 + 43 = 143
143 - 4 = 96 + 43

Again, it takes more time to explain the strange method than it does to just count out the numbers, but it's just how my mental math has developed and it only takes me a second or two to do the calculations in my head.

By the beard of Zeus...I sound like a lunatic!!

Math should be taught to students in a straight forward way, the way that has worked for decades, if not more. When kids (students in general) grasp the basics and want to get into the mechanics behind what's really happening in basic arithmetic, THEN AND ONLY THEN should these twisted methods be introduced. There is absolutely no reason to make things MORE DIFFICULT for a kid who is having a hard time getting a grasp of 9 + friggin 6!!!!!!!

Things like this make me want to become a teacher.

edit on 9/5/2014 by ChaosComplex because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:17 AM
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a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Take it easy on me, i'm a Common Core Kid. Where's my trophy?

I understand. If, IF i have a kid, home school no doubt (why bring a being into this #ed up world?). If the mom doesn't want home school, i'll just slap her up a bit to convince her.

An "A" student should get a free scholarship to their University of choosing. Thing is, (you already know) what have these "A" students been taught?



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:20 AM
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Essential for mental calculation is knowing the multiples of 10:

10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and so on.

How do we add mentally by composing a multiple of 10?

9 + 6

Decompose -- break up -- the smaller number and regroup with the larger to form the next multiple of 10. Then add what remains of the smaller number.

Say, "9 plus 1 is 10, plus 5 is 15."

source: www.themathpage.com...

edit on 5-9-2014 by seasoul because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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I do that too!!
Maybe they taught us that way!




originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I actually learned similar to that. And I was thinking the same as above. When math problems get more complecated you do math trees. Not like exactly like that but, it won't be so difficult for students used to that.

My only issue is my kids don't memorize anything. There's no longer a need the teachers say. If there's no longer a need why does everything take sooooooo long?!



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:40 AM
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a reply to: ChaosComplex

Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it and I do think you are mildly insane for loving numbers the way you do.


But seriously... I can tell you love it and it sounds like you would be a great teacher. My daughter had a math teacher last year that would show a problem once and get pissed when someone didn't get it. My daughter would come home and need more help because she was scared.... YES SCARED to ask the teacher because the teacher went into dumbassery mode on anyone who didn't just get it.

Fortunately my husband is really good at math, so he could help where I could not. School was a breeze for me. All except for the math. I swear it still haunts me now.

We need more teachers that care. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with the kids they have to these days, so at times I understand why you don't have more that care. Parents get mad at the teachers for trying to teach. They get mad when their children are corrected, made to behave, etc. it's a damned hard job to be sure. I empathize with many of them. But I am saddened that this has caused a drop in the number of people that really have a love for the job. Most deal with way more than they get paid for.

I know all that is off topic. I couldn't resist even in my own thread. ISS for me I suppose.


I do think it helps when the teacher has a genuine love for what they do. They work hard to help kids have a love for it too,minstead of just waiting for the last bell to ring.

In the end... I agree with you. I think this makes it more complicated than it has to be. I don't know enough about common core to be rabid for or against it, this just didn't seem quite right to me so I thought I'd bring it up.


originally posted by: thirdcoast
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Take it easy on me, i'm a Common Core Kid. Where's my trophy?

I understand. If, IF i have a kid, home school no doubt (why bring a being into this #ed up world?). If the mom doesn't want home school, i'll just slap her up a bit to convince her.

An "A" student should get a free scholarship to their University of choosing. Thing is, (you already know) what have these "A" students been taught?


I have been very fortunate and blessed to be able to stay at home withmy daughter. So I was able to catch those gaps and fill them in. Many parents sadly don't get to do the same and we shouldn't accept poor education simply because we can't homeschool. It shouldn't have to be that way. Sadly, I think it's only going to get worse. I applaud you for taking that into consideration before having children. Many don't. It takes a lot of sacrifices to be able to do that, but IMO it is so worth it, it isn't even funny. I may not have $800 handbags and a Lexus, but I got to spend more time with my child than the "government" did and that reward is worth all of the sacrifices.

As far as "A" student... I get you on that as well.

My daughter bought home a "C" a few years back and asked what the problem was with that... that it was "average". I asked her if she had any idea how below average, "average" actually was now??

Education and the appreciation of it is certainly lost on the youth IMO. It is rare to find a child that completely understands it and appreciates it.


originally posted by: seasoul
Essential for mental calculation is knowing the multiples of 10:

10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and so on.

How do we add mentally by composing a multiple of 10?

9 + 6

Decompose -- break up -- the smaller number and regroup with the larger to form the next multiple of 10. Then add what remains of the smaller number.

Say, "9 plus 1 is 10, plus 5 is 15."

source: www.themathpage.com...



I guess maybe if that is the way you were taught, then that is the way your mind learns to do it? It would makes sense on one level I suppose. Maybe I'm just too damn old and set in my ways too think anything other than this would make it harder for some to learn? I'm certainly not above admitting that. I said earlier that I don't know enough about CC to be vehemently for or against it. This just was a bit much IMO. And again... Maybe I'm just too old to accept it as I've never had an issue adding 9+6 before. I think sometimes we can "improve" things too much. Whether that will be the case here or not, I don't guess we will know for quite a while.


originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I do that too!!
Maybe they taught us that way!




originally posted by: Iamthatbish
I actually learned similar to that. And I was thinking the same as above. When math problems get more complecated you do math trees. Not like exactly like that but, it won't be so difficult for students used to that.

My only issue is my kids don't memorize anything. There's no longer a need the teachers say. If there's no longer a need why does everything take sooooooo long?!


I'm lost... Are you replying to yourself??


I know we do math trees as problems get harder and we learn more complicated mathematical studies, but what I am saying is why make it more complicated before it needs to be? 9+6 doesn't need to take a half of a sheet of paper to show your work IMO. I also think that this is going to make it even harder for parents to help with homework. The child is taught one way, while the adult was taught another and mixing the two can make it even more frustrating for the children who may already be struggling.

Maybe it will work in the long run and maybe it won't. I guess we will just have to wait for the studies to be done. Math is difficult for so many, I just don't think (granted I am not a professional) that making it harder sooner will help with that. YMMV of course.
edit on 9/5/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)
edit on 9/5/2014 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:42 AM
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a reply to: Iamthatbish

They did teach us that way.

I had a couple of teachers damn near break down because they realized they had no control of what they teach their students. At that time (7 years ago maybe) I didn't care about anything, but what my "friends" were doing.



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: thirdcoast
In h.s. I was constantly kicked out of math and had to get my Dad to help. He could do it in too many ways. I didn't want to hear, "or you can do it this way." I remember sometimes being the only one that could do the homework.

Don't forget school districts choose their own math books. So when my Dad learned the math books what he learned went way beyond what mine did. I see this with my kids homework. Its frustrating for me to try and help when they don't understand my explanation. Math has a vocabulary, I'm not a teacher how can I help my children if we're not speaking the same language?!



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:50 AM
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You're showing your age!! They don't call it ISS anymore! I had my own seat btw. My kids school call it the resource room.



originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe
a reply to: ChaosComplex

Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it and I do think you are mildly insane for loving numbers the way you do.


But seriously... I can tell you love it and it sounds like you would be a great teacher. My daughter had a math teacher last year that would show a problem once and get pissed when someone didn't get it. My daughter would come home and need more help because she was scared.... YES SCARED to ask the teacher because the teacher went into dumbassery mode on anyone who didn't just get it.

Fortunately my husband is really good at math, so he could help where I could not. School was a breeze for me. All except for the math. I swear it still haunts me now.

We need more teachers that care. You couldn't pay me enough to put up with the kids they have to these days, so at times I understand why you don't have more that care. Parents get mad at the teachers for trying to teach. They get mad when their children are corrected, made to behave, etc. it's a damned hard job these days to be sure. I empathize with many of them. But I am saddened that this has caused a drop in the number of people that really have a love for the job. Most deal with way more than they get paid for.

I know all that is off topic. I couldn't resist even in my own thread. ISS for me I suppose.


I do think it helps when the teacher has a genuine love for what they do. They work hard to help kids have a love for it to instead of just waiting for the last bell to ring.

In the end... I agree with you. I think this makes it more complicated than it has to be. I don't know enough about common core to be rabid for or against it, this just didn't seem quite right to me so I thought I'd bring it up.


originally posted by: thirdcoast
a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe

Take it easy on me, i'm a Common Core Kid. Where's my trophy?

I understand. If, IF i have a kid, home school no doubt (why bring a being into this #ed up world?). If the mom doesn't want home school, i'll just slap her up a bit to convince her.

An "A" student should get a free scholarship to their University of choosing. Thing is, (you already know) what have these "A" students been taught?


I have been very fortunate and blessed to be able to stay at home withmy daughter. So I was able to catch those gaps and fill them in. Many parents sadly don't get to do the same and we shouldn't accept poor education simply because we can't homeschool. It shouldn't have to be that way. Sadly, I think it's only going to get worse. I applaud you for taking that into consideration before having children. Many don't. It takes a lot of sacrifices to be able to do that, but IMO it is so worth it, it isn't even funny. I may not $800 handbags and a Lexus, but it got to spend more time with my child than the "government" did and that reward is worth all of the sacrifices.

As far as "A" student... I get you on that as well.

My daughter bought home a "C" a few years back and asked what the problem was with that... that it was "average". I asked her if she had any idea how below average, "average" actually was now??

Education and the appreciation of it is certainly lost on the youth IMO. It is rare to find a child that completely understands it and appreciates it.


originally posted by: seasoul
Essential for mental calculation is knowing the multiples of 10:

10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and so on.

How do we add mentally by composing a multiple of 10?

9 + 6

Decompose -- break up -- the smaller number and regroup with the larger to form the next multiple of 10. Then add what remains of the smaller number.

Say, "9 plus 1 is 10, plus 5 is 15."

source: www.themathpage.com...



I guess maybe if that is the way you were taught, then that is the way your mind learns to do it? It would makes sense on one level I suppose. Maybe I'm just too damn old and set in my ways too think anything other than this would make it harder for some to learn? I'm certainly not above admitting that. I said earlier that I don't know enough about CC to be vehemently for or against it. This just was a bit much IMO. And again... Maybe I'm just too old to accept it as I've never had an issue adding 9+6 before. I think sometimes we can "improve" things too much. Whether that will be the case here or not, I don't guess we will know for quite a while.



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:58 AM
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a reply to: Iamthatbish

Indeed. We had shortened it to Internal by the time I was out of school.

I'm 37 btw. And maybe that is why I am having a harder time with this than others. Teaching it that way just blows my mind. It may be normal for the younger kids right now. I've no clue.

I know I'm old and dusty.



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

Education and the appreciation of it is certainly lost on the youth IMO. It is rare to find a child that completely understands it and appreciates it.


Agreed. You got kids in middle east, africa, asia running to climb on a truck that passes near their school so they can learn. USA and others has a lot of kids do everything they can to skip school (me included) Nothing makes sense anymore.

iamthatbish, math does have a vocabulary. I see numbers and letters as different languages, but at the same time, I can correlate them.



originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe I applaud you for taking that into consideration before having children. Many don't. It takes a lot of sacrifices to be able to do that, but IMO it is so worth it, it isn't even funny.


Not so hard to not have children when you're a virgin. But it does make sense not to bring a child into this world. And on the other hand, bring as many childrens as you can because you believe they will be World Changers, like you, for the better. Who knows?

Keyboard Warriors unite? What can we do to change this?

Cheers
edit on 5-9-2014 by thirdcoast because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 01:05 AM
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originally posted by: thirdcoast

originally posted by: Kangaruex4Ewe

Education and the appreciation of it is certainly lost on the youth IMO. It is rare to find a child that completely understands it and appreciates it.


Agreed. You got kids in middle east, africa, asia running to climb on a truck that passes near their school so they can learn. USA and others has a lot of kids do everything they can to skip school (me included) Nothing makes sense anymore.

iamthatbish, math does have a vocabulary. I see numbers and letters as different languages, but at the same time, I can correlate them.


I'm with you. I did the same thing and regret it still today. I did not take those opportunities when I should have. I can only hope that my daughter will. Hindsight is 20/20, eh?



posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 01:07 AM
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I was typing to seasoul btw.


a reply to: Kangaruex4Ewe





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