A Stunning New Map Reveals For The First Time Where Our Galaxy Fits Into The Universe

originally posted by: edmc^2

You mean no Creator Required?

As for the sermon - just stating the facts E = mc2.

Dynamic Energy must emanate from somewhere in the universe for all these to be in perpetual motion.

and im sure that at some point, our highly paid and respected scientists who have spent their lives searching for an answer will give us all the evidence and documentation we could ever want ion a silver platter and say EUREKA!

sadly, you are not one of them.

originally posted by: edmc^2



You mean no Creator Required?

As for the sermon - just stating the facts E = mc2.

Dynamic Energy must emanate from somewhere in the universe for all these to be in perpetual motion.

No entity that one would believe that creates is needed, we have the weak force (gravity) the strong force (magnetism) darkmatter (?) dark energy(?) electricity, and a whole lot of stuff we don't know.
That stuff works fine at creating all on it's own.

When you say that god created it, how do you know that, who told you this, the bible? Who wrote in the bible that god did it, how do you know the great BBQ lover in the sky spoke personally to the author of that line in that bible of yours, or was it just made up by some crazy dude?
If someone told you that they speak to god, would you take advice from this person? What makes some guy from thousands of years ago more relavent then?

What?

And what does your bible quote have anything to do with Einstein's famous equation?
That bible quote came from a man who wrote something down to try and wrap his head around something he did not understand.

Yeah, science is a god killer.

mispost
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I suppose at least it cant be proven to be wrong.

Quantum fluctuations and instanton effects in vacuum energy created our universe. No God needed. Chaos itself is capable of producing complex and beautiful structures.
The Secret Life of Chaos

originally posted by: wildespace
Quantum fluctuations and instanton effects in vacuum energy created our universe.

No God needed. Chaos itself is capable of producing complex and beautiful structures.
The Secret Life of Chaos

So what your saying is...order can come from chaos?

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: wildespace
Quantum fluctuations and instanton effects in vacuum energy created our universe.

No God needed. Chaos itself is capable of producing complex and beautiful structures.
The Secret Life of Chaos

So what your saying is...order can come from chaos?

Yes. Things in the universe have prospensity for self-organisation, as there are always some underlying mathematical rules to all processes and phenomena. I really suggest watching that documentary I linked.

Chaos theory has a bad name, conjuring up images of unpredictable weather, economic crashes and science gone wrong. But there is a fascinating and hidden side to Chaos, one that scientists are only now beginning to understand. It turns out that chaos theory answers a question that mankind has asked for millennia - how did we get here?

In this documentary, Professor Jim Al-Khalili sets out to uncover one of the great mysteries of science - how does a universe that starts off as dust end up with intelligent life? How does order emerge from disorder? It's a mind-bending, counterintuitive and for many people a deeply troubling idea.

But Professor Al-Khalili reveals the science behind much of beauty and structure in the natural world and discovers that far from it being magic or an act of God, it is in fact an intrinsic part of the laws of physics. Amazingly, it turns out that the mathematics of chaos can explain how and why the universe creates exquisite order and pattern. And the best thing is that one doesn't need to be a scientist to understand it.

The natural world is full of awe-inspiring examples of the way nature transforms simplicity into complexity. From trees to clouds to humans - after watching this film you'll never be able to look at the world in the same way again. Find out more about the secret life of chaos.

Short preview: www.youtube.com...


Another clip, about self-similarity: www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: wildespace
I beleive I have seen this chaos stuff on the TV or internet before. HEH (If order can come of that)
But I may and go watch this documentary you linked right now.

..................................Now.

Well the Universe does have rules and the patterns emerge from this disorder because of these rules of nature.

Off to watch something now.

a reply to: wildespace

i think you may have just given me one of the missing keys to my understanding. thank you.

Amazing, did see this in a vision , 2 bones and God closed the flesh over it.
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

originally posted by: wildespace
Quantum fluctuations and instanton effects in vacuum energy created our universe.

No God needed. Chaos itself is capable of producing complex and beautiful structures.
The Secret Life of Chaos

Baloney, if this is true then I should have at least $10 added to my account by tomorrow without any planning or organizing.

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: wildespace
Quantum fluctuations and instanton effects in vacuum energy created our universe.

No God needed. Chaos itself is capable of producing complex and beautiful structures.
The Secret Life of Chaos

Baloney, if this is true then I should have at least $10 added to my account by tomorrow without any planning or organizing.

There are still some rules underneath all that chaos, so some things are as unlikely as the Sun suddenly disappearing, or a pink elephant randomly appearing in your bedroom. However, if you get involved with stock exchange, you do have a chance of getting unexpectedly richer. In fact, it was when that Mandelbrot guy was examining the chaotic nature of stock market fluctuations that he eventually came up with the notion of fractals and the Mandelbrot set.

Always wondered why "The Great Attractor" is not just called the "Local Gravitational Centre" to steer away from Wizard of Oz'esque nomenclature.
The Planck mission seems to have refuted the idea of "darkflow" so we should probably accept (in the as above-so below vain) good old fashioned Gravity is the mechanism at play.

Great visualisation in the video-would love to see this scaled to provide a 3D app. where you can explore the local Universe.

Does anyone have any thoughts on whether interstellar travel between two stars in the same "great attractor" influence zone would be more energy efficient than travel between 2 stars in separate "Great Attractor" influence fields-assuming the straight line distance was equal for both journeys?

originally posted by: Jukiodone
Great visualisation in the video-would love to see this scaled to provide a 3D app. where you can explore the local Universe.

I think I might have watched a documentary not too long ago discussing a project for just that. I will have to have a look around sometime soon and see if I can find it and exactly what that project was ... it was definitely dealing with mapping our galaxy and universe though.

I can't speak of your other question. I would assume though it would be the same given if you bend space/time you are actually making the star travel to you vice you travelling to the star.

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

originally posted by: Jukiodone
Great visualisation in the video-would love to see this scaled to provide a 3D app. where you can explore the local Universe.

I think I might have watched a documentary not too long ago discussing a project for just that. I will have to have a look around sometime soon and see if I can find it and exactly what that project was ... it was definitely dealing with mapping our galaxy and universe though...

That same people who put together the video of "galaxy flow" in the OP (a group led by Brent Tully of the University of Hawaii) had also put together a static (i.e., without showing the "flow lines") 3D map of a portion of the known universe.

I'm not sure if they are making an interactive version of this map available to the public or not, but here is a great video showing that map and our galaxy's place in the universe:

originally posted by: wildespace

originally posted by: edmc^2

originally posted by: wildespace
Quantum fluctuations and instanton effects in vacuum energy created our universe.

No God needed. Chaos itself is capable of producing complex and beautiful structures.
The Secret Life of Chaos

Baloney, if this is true then I should have at least $10 added to my account by tomorrow without any planning or organizing.

There are still some rules underneath all that chaos, so some things are as unlikely as the Sun suddenly disappearing, or a pink elephant randomly appearing in your bedroom. However, if you get involved with stock exchange, you do have a chance of getting unexpectedly richer. In fact, it was when that Mandelbrot guy was examining the chaotic nature of stock market fluctuations that he eventually came up with the notion of fractals and the Mandelbrot set.

Is this not circle reasoning - in a roundabout way?

In other words - what created the rules if not chaos?

If it's not chaos who or what then created the rules for chaos to exist in the first place?

Also, why the need for rules if chaos is that powerful to create a highly fine tuned universe?

It just can't be if logic is followed. As we all know - Chaos begets chaos and disorder while Order begets order.

Hence, Order MUST exist first for everything else to exist - including chaos.

From Order to Disorder not Disorder to order.

It's just the order of things.

originally posted by: edmc^2
In other words - what created the rules if not chaos?

If it's not chaos who or what then created the rules for chaos to exist in the first place?

From Order to Disorder not Disorder to order.

I get what you are saying, but in the universe today, there are a set of rules that direct the universe in the micro scale -- AND the result of those rules can also manifest themselves in the super-macro scale.

Where THOSE rules came from (i.e., when the universe was forming) could be considered a question unrelated to this idea of "the chaos of a few micro rules creating order on a macro scale".


But yeah -- one ultimate question could be "why did anything ever begin to follow rules in the first place?"

My answer to that question could be that when we get down to the very very very basic workings of the universe -- i.e., when we go back to the very beginning and that first "event" happened (the first thing that happened in the universe on the ultimately smallest micro scale) that "event" happened do to one single simply rule...and everything else that happens may be built upon that one simple rule.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: edmc^2
In other words - what created the rules if not chaos?

If it's not chaos who or what then created the rules for chaos to exist in the first place?

From Order to Disorder not Disorder to order.

I get what you are saying, but in the universe today, there are a set of rules that direct the universe in the micro scale -- AND the result of those rules can also manifest themselves in the super-macro scale.

Where THOSE rules came from (i.e., when the universe was forming) could be considered a question unrelated to this idea of "the chaos of a few micro rules creating order on a macro scale".


But yeah -- one ultimate question could be "why did anything ever begin to follow rules in the first place?"

My answer to that question could be that when we get down to the very very very basic workings of the universe -- i.e., when we go back to the very beginning and that first "event" happened (the first thing that happened in the universe on the ultimately smallest micro scale) that "event" happened do to one single simply rule...and everything else that happens may be built upon that one simple rule.

Hence order will ALWAYS precede disorder.

And ORDER will always be governed by Intelligence.

Just by looking at the map of the universe, one can only come to a logical conclusion that it involves organizing.

A superb mathematical organizing of the highest degree.

Woah. So this is slightly off topic, but is the Pisces cluster really that huge? I'm a Pisces, so yeah. Completely unrelated to Astronomy (most astronomers negate the use of astrology) but I personally believe astrology is nothing more than a study of the time of year someone was born & the surrounding people's general emotions during that time & how the newborn infant processed that information.

a reply to: edmc^2

Why would order require intelligence?

And looking at the Laniakea supercluster, I don't see much order anyway. I see a bunch of galaxies moving under the influence of gravity. apod.nasa.gov...

Here's my position on order: any universe, even if it came into existence chaotically, must have at least some rules and laws. It's like with absolute nothingness: it cannot exist; there must always be something. If you're looking for intelligence behind all that order and all those laws, what created that intelligence? How did it come into being? Could God himself be the result of chaotic processes?