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The Seven Churches and The New Messiah

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posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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Like I have explained in earlier threads, I interpret the Apocalypse of Johannan the Scribe as a continuous and chronological, unfolding series of events, that can be traced as major historical events and paradigms particularly within the Church, starting at the time of John at Patmos, into our days and leaving a glimpse of what is to come further into the future:

  • The Son of Man and the Seven Letters of Rev. 1-3 display the nature of the Son of Man and further the formation of seven Church guilds or orders, with a key for interpretation
  • The seven seals of Rev. 4-8:5 display major paradigms in Church history
  • The seven trumpets of Rev. 8-11 display worldwide wars and key events of the 20th and 21st centuries
  • "The Dragon's intermezzo" of Rev. 12-13 shows the Dragon's plan
  • "The Last Stand" scenario of Rev. 14 displays the Lamb of God and his army at their last stand on Mt. Zion, 'the Foundation of Science'
  • The seven Bowls of Rev. 15-16 displays the wrath of God
  • The "Interpretation Comma" of Rev. 17-18 display directions for interpretation and the final fall of Babylon
  • The "Millennium King and the New Jerusalem" of Rev. 19-22 shows the return of the Christ who was born and taken up to God in Rev. 12. The beasts are punished, the Messiah son of Jesus rules for 1000 years before Satan returns briefly before the New Jerusalem descends from the Heaven and the Old Serpent returns to his Tree and takes a dive into Helios, our Star. We will travel to other planets under new skies. The Week God started some 6000 years ago, and will end in about a thousand years, after the Christ of Jesus has ruled with Jesus as his God in uncompromising peace

    Now the thread that ties it all together is the 'Millennium King', the 'New Messiah' whom we meet towards the end of the Apocalypse verses 19:11ff:

    Then I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse! The one sitting on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he judges and makes war. His eyes are like a flame of fire, and on his head are many diadems, and he has a name written that no one knows but himself. He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

    This Millennium King is indeed the Messiah, but he isn't Jesus returning as the majority of church denominations seem to hold as sound theology, and we are talking about ONE person, not some modern English idiomatic euphemism for every Christian in general as most Christians seem to believe. 'The one who conquers' (ESV) or 'he who overcometh' (KJV) is the son of Jesus, a heir to his throne, and Jesus is his God, as we see in Revelation 21:7:

    And he said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give from the spring of the water of life without payment. The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son.”

    And he is the lad who is born while his mother is fleeing from Satan in Revelation 12:4f:

    And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it. She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne

    Now, what this thread will focus on is this Millennium King and how he is included in the postscript of all seven letters to the given angels of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3:

    Ephesus ==> "To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."
    Smyrna ==> "The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death."
    Pergamum ==> "To the one who conquers I will give some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, with a new name written on the stone that no one knows except the one who receives it."
    Thyatira ==> "The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. And I will give him the morning star."
    Sardis ==> "The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels."
    Philadelphia ==> "The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it, and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven, and my own new name."
    Laodicea ==> "The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne."

    Also, that being said, the seven letters of Rev. 2 and 3 aren't styled to the Churches, but to the seven Arch Angels of God, symbolised as seven stars in the hand of the Son of Man, the churches are likened with lampstands:

  • Ephesus: First star is the Moon with it's patient endurance, Ephesus was a centre of Artemis (Diana) worship, and her temple in Ephesus, Artemision, was one of the world's seven wonders.
  • Smyrna: Second star is the Sun, which "dies and comes back to life" when there is an eclipse.
  • Pergamum: Third star is Jupiter* (see note below), since Pergamon's main altar was the "Throne of Zeus" which was dismantled and moved to Berlin 150 years ago (to boost the Beast, the devil gave it his power and throne). In Latin Zeus becomes Jupiter. The devil is then revealed as Satan, and Germany is revealed as the Beast.
  • Thyatira: Fourth star is the morningstar, Venus*.
  • Sardis: Fifth star is Mercury*, faint and softhearted.
  • Philadelphia: Sixth star is Saturn. Philadelphia means "brotherly love" and is a reference to the "brotherly relation" between Saturn* and Jupiter* and their "greatest conjuctions" progressing one zodiacal sign every 973 years, which were important in Judaism and which was the Bethlehem Star.
  • Laodichea then, must be Mars*, and let's see what is written about it: God suggests he'd get some white cloathes, to hide his (red) nakedness.

    *) The planets visible to the naked eye carrying those names, not the Roman gods.

    What I want to use this thread for is to determine the names of these seven angels through looking into Kabbalah, Talmud, Enoch and other traditions. I also want to reveal the hidden astrology of the Apocalypse and show how the Apocalypse is indeed more than meets the eye at first glance, and it certainly isn't the work of some 1st century uneducated madman. Anyway, I'll let this OP sink in a while. So I'll just leave you to it.
    edit on 4-9-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Restructured the schematics for the Apocalypse and put in forgotten chapters. Added bullet before the Dragon's Intermezzo + missing article




  • posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 12:56 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    You are distorting foreign doctrines to fit the bible. The 7 churches are 7 physical locations, not planets or stars. Morning star is title for the church saints. The bible interprets itself. Seeking outside information from the Talmud, Cabalah, etc only provides a fabricated illusion.



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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    originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    You are distorting foreign doctrines to fit the bible. The 7 churches are 7 physical locations, not planets or stars. Morning star is title for the church saints. The bible interprets itself. Seeking outside information from the Talmud, Cabalah, etc only provides a fabricated illusion.


    Revelation 1:20: As for the mystery of the seven stars that you saw in my right hand, and the seven golden lampstands, the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.



    Foreign doctrines my arse. The seven place names mentioned are seven geographical places. For fun, mark them up on a map and draw a line from church to church. What do you get? The outline of a church with a steeple and even drawn in front-off perspective.



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    The 7 stars are 7 messenger-angels, not celestial bodies. In the Torah, God made a clear prohibition against drawing "messages" from the heavenly bodies.

    For all we know, the modern legalists probably designed the steeple-churches according to the 7-church outline. The actual geometric design means nothing.



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 03:16 PM
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    originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    The 7 stars are 7 messenger-angels, not celestial bodies. In the Torah, God made a clear prohibition against drawing "messages" from the heavenly bodies.

    For all we know, the modern legalists probably designed the steeple-churches according to the 7-church outline. The actual geometric design means nothing.


    The seven churches are the seven lamp stands of Rev. 1, and the seven stars in the Son of Man's right hand, are the seven arch angels of God, we meet two of them. Michael and Samael (Satan) fighting over the dominance over the Sun/Sol which is the soul of the Son of Man. Satan loses and is tossed to Earth, where he tried to take the power of God by more than mere influence and inspiration, he tried to devour the newborn Millennium King (Crown Prince at that moment), but the newborn slipped away and was taken up to God.

    We also know Gabriel from the Gospel, and Raphael shows up in Tobit of the Catholic Bible (not included in the Protestant canon). Uriel is the angel who guards Eden with his fiery, swinging sword. that leaves two or three spots open. And there are many contenders. Which I hope to discuss in this thread.

    You obviously have no idea about or interest in what angels are and how they operate. What their dominions are and which nations they protect, which luminary and constellation they represent and so on. The angels of God are more than mere messengers and delivery guys. Gabriel is the messenger, that's true, he is also the angel of the dominion of the Moon. Michael is the Angel of the Sun and so on.

    The four angels standing directly before the throne are references to "the four faces of Mercury", the innermost planet. You obviously have no insight into this, but that's not stopping you from calling names and ridiculing. Atleast you stay vaguely on topic, but the Arch Angels of God is more than a bunch of delivery guys. They are the generals of God and carry out the Plan of God. Minions of angels and humans serve under their command.



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 03:33 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim


    This Millennium King is indeed the Messiah, but he isn't Jesus returning as the majority of church denominations seem to hold as sound theology,


    This is way wrong.

    John 1:1:8 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.


    John 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.



    He is clothed in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.


    If The Word became flesh, and that flesh was Jesus, then the messiah in Revelation that is called the "Word of God" is Jesus.





    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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    Hi, OP. Wow. I thought you were a pretty well-educated guy before - your posts and threads have been remarkable, and notable.

    The Week God started some 6000 years ago, and will end in about a thousand years, after the Christ of Jesus has ruled with Jesus as his God in uncompromising peace

    So, do you believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old??



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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    a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

    "The one who conquers will have this heritage, and I will be his God and he will be my son."

    Jesus (or rather Jesua) was the Son of his Father, everything Jesus has was inherited from his Father. Jesus was the fulfilment of the prophecies concerning him in the Old Testament (the old covenant) and thereby the Living Word of God, and while with the Father in Heaven, he laid the premises for his own coming as a Son of Man. The Millennium Messiah on the other hand, is the Son of Jesus and the Word of the New Covenant (of Jesus). Like the quote above clearly shows, Jesus is the God of the Millennium King.

    The Father of Jesus has his Day off during the Peace Millennium. It's his Sabbath for heaven's sake. And on the Sabbath, only the Priest is at work (well a few more naturally, but you catch my drift), the rest of the people are either listening to the priest, or chilling somewhere, like God (he has heard it all before). Well, anyway, in the Book of Hebrews we learn that Jesus is such a Priest. He is "the High Priest in the Order of Melchizedek". That's why he is the God of the Millennium, and not the King.

    The Grandfather and his Lamb returns when the New Jerusalem has descended and locked in it's anchors, long after the Millennium is over and Satan has returned. Obviously the Father of Jesus has spent some of his time speeding round in space. However I always see the Grandfather as sitting relaxed leaned back in a boat on a water on a lovely day, making sketches of some new bird.

    Like you and most people with you fail to understand, is that there is more than flesh and blood involved with the Word of God. First of all the lump of flesh is animated, and lives. Second of all time moves on and new words, prophecies and holy books arrive. The Word of God is a living Word, a person, a bloodline, every generation inherits the former, the same regalia, titles, dominions &c from the former generation, and the nature of words is that of growth and families. Like one word fathers another and how one language belongs to this or that family, so does the Word of God.



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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    originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
    Hi, OP. Wow. I thought you were a pretty well-educated guy before - your posts and threads have been remarkable, and notable.

    The Week God started some 6000 years ago, and will end in about a thousand years, after the Christ of Jesus has ruled with Jesus as his God in uncompromising peace

    So, do you believe the Earth is only 6,000 years old??


    Not at all. Every week is a new week, and given the world is 13 billion years old, the week that started 6000 years ago, was his 1857142th one, given 7000 years is a week for God. I will come back with a work on Genesis 1 a bit later, I'm gonna explain this further then.

    No the universe wasn't created 6000 years ago, no more than it was created yesterday. But civilisation and the white Caucasian Adam showed up about 6000 years ago. Before that time humans were mostly nomads and the only gingers and blondes around were Neanderthals. There were plenty of people around in the time of Eden, and parts of the universe (background radiation) is nearly 20 billion years old. The Sun will burn for another 4 billion years, and the Earth is about half way into it's full lifespan.

    We learn that 7000 years is equal to one week for God. Idiots who believe their God only exists for one week, and that the universe was created on a Monday 5678 years ago, well, "Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the Earth" -- After it's been blown to smitherines and swallowed by the Sun in a few billion years. I believe God is travelling through space and has several projects similar to Earth around the universe. I believe he terraformed and spawned life here on Earth and I believe he has the means, scientific as they must be, to level whole solar systems and fix orbits and so on.

    So don't worry. Though I believe in space travel and genetics and advanced life elsewhere in space, I am not a "Creationist" adhering to "Intelligent Design Theory".
    edit on 4-9-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: misc
    edit on 4-9-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: First line+ lineshift



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 05:33 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    Okay, cool. I got really confused by your OP.
    Thanks.



    posted on Sep, 4 2014 @ 10:59 PM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    Melkizedek was a king-priest. Being from that order, Jesus will be the Milennial King-priest.

    1 Corin 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.


    Jesus was the head of the first fruits resurrection. The Church as His body will conclude the first fruits resurrection. Then those at His 2nd Advent are resurrected, then Jesus will rule for 1000 years. Then, after His enemies are made His footstool (50 years), the rest will be resurrected. At that point, the kingdom will be given back to His Father, and authority will be abolished.

    There is no mention of Jesus having a son. You made that up.

    edit on 4-9-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 12:10 AM
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    a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

    Its hard to dismiss star signs when revelation itself tells a great sign appears in the heavens....



    Revelation 12:1.. A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.


    Some have speculated that the great sign occurred in the year 2000....



    A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman (constellation Virgo) clothed with the sun (just below the horizon), with the moon (male-child) under her feet and a crown of twelve stars (constellation Bernice) on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon (constellation Draco) with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child (moon), who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne."

    The moon represents the "male Child" (Rev. 12) in this rare astronomical event. Virgo the Virgin (Bethula) is giving "birth" to the moon every year from 1996 to 1999, and it just happens to be occurring every year on the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hoshanah or the Feast of Trumpets), which is very rare indeed. By the year 2000, the moon is far beneath her legs (birthed). This positioning of the moon within Virgo (happening four years in a row on the same Hebrew date) has never occurred before, and will never occur again for another 26,000 years, due to the procession of the equinoxes!

    Link



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 06:52 AM
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    originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    Okay, cool. I got really confused by your OP.
    Thanks.



    Sorry about that, but the idea that one day for god is 1000 years on earth is from Psalms 90:4

    For a thousand years in your sight are but as yesterday when it is past, or as a watch in the night.

    This fits with the Peace Millennium being the seventh day and Sabbath:

    Revelation 20:4 (ESV) Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

    And like I have explained, at that point the rod of iron has passed from Jesus to his Son:

    Revelation 3:21 (ESV) The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

    and this son of Jesus, seated with Jesus on his throne:

    Revelation 2:27 (ESV) he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father.

    Same titles, same power, but different Word/Prophecy and a there's a new Christ in town.
    edit on 5-9-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: Added refs



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 07:47 AM
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    The ones who overcome and become "sons of God" includes everyone who followed Jesus and accepted Him as their savior, so that they too may sit in God's throne.

    Revelation 3:20-21

    20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if ANY man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

    21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

    Revelation 21:6-7

    6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

    7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    Last, but not least...

    1 Corinthians 15:28

    28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son (Jesus) also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL.

    edit on 5-9-2014 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 07:50 AM
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    originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    Melkizedek was a king-priest. Being from that order, Jesus will be the Milennial King-priest.


    Yes, and when the King is dead, what do we say? Live the King, for the Messiah is an office and a title, one that is inherited from father to son within a royal bloodline with claim to the throne. In this case, the throne of Jerusalem. Melchizedek was the king of Salem, which is short for Jerusalem.



    1 Corin 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET.


    Jesus was the head of the first fruits resurrection. The Church as His body will conclude the first fruits resurrection. Then those at His 2nd Advent are resurrected, then Jesus will rule for 1000 years. Then, after His enemies are made His footstool (50 years), the rest will be resurrected. At that point, the kingdom will be given back to His Father, and authority will be abolished.

    There is no mention of Jesus having a son. You made that up.



    Sorry, quoting Paul to refute Revelation is pretty lame, and I have shown you over and over how YES Jesus has a son, and the Book of Revelation is a prophecy of his coming. Your quote shows exactly who Paul is in Revelation and how his version of Jesus is a false version and his Christ is an Antichrist, one that doesn't exist elsewhere than in his scheme. I won't destroy this thread by going there, sorry. Keep Paul out of this, he is the brood of serpents to use his own vocabulary. Paul is mentioned in Revelation 13 btw. together with Peter as the first pope.



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 07:54 AM
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    a reply to: glend

    The only sign in the stars will be the return of the Son of Man. When it happens, it will be unmistakable. Other than that, there are no star signs in the bible.



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 07:58 AM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    I see, now certain parts of the bible are off limits. Nice.

    Im quoting metered scripture. Paul's epistles belong with the bible, like it or not. You are seeking wisdom from non-biblical sources.

    And Im not refuting Revelation, Im correcting you.
    edit on 5-9-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: (no reason given)



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 08:50 AM
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    a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

    I am discussing the Book of Revelation, which is the Word of Jesus (or rather Jesua; I don't really like using his Latin name Jesus). It refers to many books but not even once to the letters of Paul. Unless you knew, Paul's letters didn't exist at the time Revelation was written. But like I say, the Dragon has pulled more than Paul out of his, eh, back pocket, to fulfil the dark side of the Apocalypse, but Saul Pauli contribution is that of the False Prophet preaching lies about and promoting worship of a false Jesus, who is the Antichrist. A sacrificial beast. He also preach falsely how God demands human sacrifice, and how Jesus was a willing sacrifice and that it worked as through magic, making his God content. Bollocks. Saul Pauli God is Moloch. His Christ is Mithras.
    edit on 5-9-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: rephrased



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 09:05 AM
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    a reply to: Utnapisjtim

    What in the world are you talking about and how did you come to such a conclusion?



    posted on Sep, 5 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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    a reply to: Deetermined

    Peter and Paul the two horns of the Pope, the False Prophet, working in communion with the Beast which is the empires of this world prototyped by a latinised Jesus, where Jesus has gone from being a humble Rabbi to a sacrificial beast being executed to please God and free humanity for his sins. A sacrificial lamb that was

    "pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed. [ESV]" (Isaiah 53:5).

    The truth about Isaiah 53:5 is that Jesus was a Mamzer, a person set aside in traditional Jewish societies. In Jesu' case, he was a mamzer primarily since he was born out of wedlock, the Pharicees called him a Samaritan and a drunkard. They treated him like a scapegoat, and he would typically be bullied and excluded, marginalised and well he would be treated like an animal. To the extent where they kill or sacrifice him, well curse him really, by nailing him to a tree. Now how on Earth does that constitute worship of Jesus for his "sacrifice"? Nothing good came out of the crucifixion, other than magic remedies for people who are under the control of Satan, waving the cross around like it was some kind of weapon, going "Jesus died for US! Without his SACRIFICE we would be in HELL". Bollocks.

    In my dialect the word for Sacrifice and Why is the same. That detail kind of lingers a bit, sparking reflexion, don't you think?
    edit on 5-9-2014 by Utnapisjtim because: rephrased last line





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