"Astoundingly huge" dinosaur skeleton unearthed

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I still don't understand your point.

Just because it is theorized that sauropods had air sacks doesn't make any difference when it comes to blood pressure, and the required force needed to pump blood 9 meters into the air. The souropods could be entirely made out of air sacks and it wouldn't change the physics required to pump blood.

Your argument doesn't address my argument in any way.

OK I'll concede that point, but I just think that we need to study these animals more thoroughly, I certainly don't think it is evidence to throw the standard model of physics out the window for EU theory. I think we need to study these animals more thoroughly. Here is a great article discussing this while giving some possibilities of how the animals could have pumped the blood from the heart to the head without blowing their arteries out.

Of Barosaurus and Blood Pressure

I think I'll said with this for now. I don't believe EU theory in the slightest. And here is why.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

The article you link says they don't know how the blood pressure was regulated, which simply ignores the problem, which is what I pointed out in my OP.

They ignore it.

And all of this is to say nothing of other circulation problems that come with being big. When a Supersaurus lowered its neck to feed at ground level, the dinosaur would have risked a terrible rush of blood to the head. Although very, very distantly related – seeing as they are mammals – giraffes hint at one solution for coping with this problem. The long-necked mammals have a web of little arteries called the rete mirable, Ganse and coauthors point out, which helps prevent blood pressure from skyrocketing while the giraffe’s neck is lowered. Sauropods could have evolved a similar structure. No one has yet found evidence of such an arrangement for sauropods, but it’s still a hypothesis worth entertaining since the feature exists in another long-necked vertebrate.

Then there’s the question of how sauropods prevented blood from pooling in their limbs. Once the blood went out to these extremities, how did it overcome gravity to go back to the heart?
...
We may never know how sauropods got around the same problem, but, given their size and facts of their biology, they must have had some mechanism to prevent edema.

They write it off as some minor anomaly that isn't worth addressing at length.

This isn't some minor anomaly that can be hypothesized away by pointing to modern day animals.

Esker goes into detail about the physics involved. The dinosaurs could not have lived in an environment like Earth today. It's simply impossible.

As Esker and I point out, either the air pressure or the gravity must have been radically different from what it is today.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: amazing
I wonder if Satan put it there to confuse us. He does that right?

I wonder if Noah rode one? He did that right?

Awesome Dinosaur! Amazing discovery. Love this stuff!

No but God did show Behemoth to Job in some way.

Job 40:15-24New International Version (NIV)


15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?

That almost sounds like a metaphor for something else and wouldn't explain the T-Rex.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

No they say that it is unknown and they are working on figuring it out, but without an actual preserved circulatory system, they can't be positive one way or the other. They aren't ignoring it though.

originally posted by: amazing

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: amazing
I wonder if Satan put it there to confuse us. He does that right?

I wonder if Noah rode one? He did that right?

Awesome Dinosaur! Amazing discovery. Love this stuff!

No but God did show Behemoth to Job in some way.

Job 40:15-24New International Version (NIV)


15 “Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20 The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21 Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22 The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23 A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24 Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?

That almost sounds like a metaphor for something else and wouldn't explain the T-Rex.

There were no T rex's around when this beast lived. T rex was 50 million years later after an extinction event.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

If thousands of meteorites small and medium sized are hitting the earth every day, and adding up all that extra mass over the last 65 million years, wouldn't that account for an increasingly large Earth and thus increasing gravity?

We're not losing any mass, except a small amount of atmosphere, right?

Can someone better than me at math do the estimates on how much larger Earth is now, than then, and how much greater the gravity would therefore be now? (I secretly want proof that my recent weight gain is based on outside forces...)

Looking at the diagrams and illustrations provided in the article I realize that I imagine dinosaurs to be much larger than they actually were. They are still gigantic and would scare the piss out of anyone to have seen them if that were possible, but yet, I am disappointed that dinosaurs weren't as tall as skyscrapers.

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
a reply to: Krazysh0t

The article you link says they don't know how the blood pressure was regulated, which simply ignores the problem, which is what I pointed out in my OP.

They ignore it.

And all of this is to say nothing of other circulation problems that come with being big. When a Supersaurus lowered its neck to feed at ground level, the dinosaur would have risked a terrible rush of blood to the head. Although very, very distantly related – seeing as they are mammals – giraffes hint at one solution for coping with this problem. The long-necked mammals have a web of little arteries called the rete mirable, Ganse and coauthors point out, which helps prevent blood pressure from skyrocketing while the giraffe’s neck is lowered. Sauropods could have evolved a similar structure. No one has yet found evidence of such an arrangement for sauropods, but it’s still a hypothesis worth entertaining since the feature exists in another long-necked vertebrate.

Then there’s the question of how sauropods prevented blood from pooling in their limbs. Once the blood went out to these extremities, how did it overcome gravity to go back to the heart?
...
We may never know how sauropods got around the same problem, but, given their size and facts of their biology, they must have had some mechanism to prevent edema.

They write it off as some minor anomaly that isn't worth addressing at length.

This isn't some minor anomaly that can be hypothesized away by pointing to modern day animals.

Esker goes into detail about the physics involved. The dinosaurs could not have lived in an environment like Earth today. It's simply impossible.

As Esker and I point out, either the air pressure or the gravity must have been radically different from what it is today.

Do you really take Esker seriously? He comes across as being completely stubborn and arrogant not to mention completely bonkers. You do realise he talks about himself in the third person right? Have you read any of the responses he has made in public forums challenging Joe Publics take on his ideas? The guy is not a teacher, he is a preacher! He loathes paleontogists and describes the early scientific errors made in paleontology as unacceptable. Unacceptable to him maybe but most grounded people would understand the complexities of interpreting the life history and biology of an animal that has been extinct for millions of years.

You say you find his thick atmosphere theory ludicrous but you'll buy the rest of his ramblings? He seems overly preoccupied with size if you ask me. Answer this: wouldn't a thick atmosphere be an impossible condition for small dinos, mammals and inverts? And the same question goes for the effect of a reduced air pressure or gravity. You cant just make one theory for super massive dinos and pterosaurs and ignore the effects that theory would have on the rest of the biosphere. IMHO.

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

DREAD NOT US is a joke. Allegedly the size of a 737? Seriously, people. And they JUST discovered this thing? IT IS A HOAX - pure and simple.

originally posted by: gwynned

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

DREAD NOT US is a joke. Allegedly the size of a 737? Seriously, people. And they JUST discovered this thing? IT IS A HOAX - pure and simple.

If its good enough for New Scientist then it should be good enough for you.

www.newscientist.com...

It's not like they found this yesterday btw. They've been describing these fossils since 2005.

I couldn't help but keep thinking of job

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: gwynned

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

DREAD NOT US is a joke. Allegedly the size of a 737? Seriously, people. And they JUST discovered this thing? IT IS A HOAX - pure and simple.

If its good enough for New Scientist then it should be good enough for you.

www.newscientist.com...

It's not like they found this yesterday btw. They've been describing these fossils since 2005.

Sorry. I don't care if the POPE put his imprimatur on this. It's BS. In fact, there are plenty of people who think the entire dinosaur thing is a hoax. For me, this was the nail in the coffin.

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

Nope, look at the link in one of the posts it gives the timelines. These guys were long extinct by the time tyrannosaurs lived.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

Nope, look at the link in one of the posts it gives the timelines. These guys were long extinct by the time tyrannosaurs lived.

Is it at all possible you have misread the details in your own link? It says giant ARTHROPODS, not giant SAUROPODS, existed during the Pennsylvanian Epoch. Your info is out by an ERA!!

originally posted by: gwynned

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: gwynned

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

DREAD NOT US is a joke. Allegedly the size of a 737? Seriously, people. And they JUST discovered this thing? IT IS A HOAX - pure and simple.

If its good enough for New Scientist then it should be good enough for you.

www.newscientist.com...

It's not like they found this yesterday btw. They've been describing these fossils since 2005.

Sorry. I don't care if the POPE put his imprimatur on this. It's BS. In fact, there are plenty of people who think the entire dinosaur thing is a hoax. For me, this was the nail in the coffin.

So put up a post asking the mods to shunt this thread to the Hoax forum. That's what i would do if i knew 100% that someone was posting hoaxes in an otherwise legit forum.

How dinosaurs can be a hoax is pushing the limits of rational thought. We're not talking Bruhathkayosaurus here but a lot of very well preserved and localised fossils clearly belonging to a super massive dino, perhaps even a sub adult individual.

a reply to: gwynned

Oh, ok, so you personally don't buy it therefore it's fake. Hold on a sec, lemme get on the phone to the entire paleontology community, I'm sure they'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter /s

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: TinfoilTP

originally posted by: SLAYER69
A Dino that's truly appropriately named.

Now for every prey there was a predator. you know the old saying.

'The Bigger they are, the harder they fall'

So, who/what hunted this bad boy?

They lived in the Pennsylvanian epoch

Pennsylvanian Epoch (318.1 to 299 mya)
- Atmospheric oxygen levels reach over 30%
- Giant arthropods populate the land

That was long before predatory dinosaurs which were in the Triasic Period which was 50 million years after these big guys and there was a mass extinction in between during the Permean Period. Plus Oxygen levels were lower by the Triasic from the 30% down to 12% so highly unlikely they could exist past the extinction event.

Source

Your info is wildly inaccurate. Dreadnoughtus was alive about 70 million years ago during the Cretaceous as were tyrannosaurids.

Nope, look at the link in one of the posts it gives the timelines. These guys were long extinct by the time tyrannosaurs lived.

Not sure which link you're referring to but a quick google search dates it as Upper Cretaceous approx. 75 MYA Another interesting fact I found was that as big as it is, neither of the 2 specimens they found were fully grown yet. They were still juveniles.
en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

Could it have been much higher O2 percentages that made these giant beasts possible?

Prehistoric insects grew to impossibly large sizes in times when oxygen levels were much higher.

a reply to: TruthxIsxInxThexMist

True. But what is also true is that humans would not be around if these dino's were still around.