Anti - Freemasonry

Cat amongst the pigeons:

Is any Grand Lodge officer or the Grand Master higher in rank than a Master Mason or Master of a Lodge?

Why are Grand Lodge offices classified as "active" or "honorary" in "rank"?

Rhetorical questions, of course, for members who know the purpose of rhetorical questions.

Originally posted by cotwom


Although your post was funny, I was being serious.

Cotwom,

I'm sorry, I didn't know. From the few people I know in Scottish Rite, I was led to believe that it all took much longer than that, somewhere in the neighborhood of a few months (like each series of stages were taken at once, then a few weeks was waited and then another series was taken, et al.)

I thought you were being sarcastic to point out the rediculousness of the above postings. But now i see you were being truthful to point out the rediculousness of the above postings.

Originally posted by DasBaldDog

I'm sorry, I didn't know. From the few people I know in Scottish Rite, I was led to believe that it all took much longer than that, somewhere in the neighborhood of a few months

In the Northern Jurisdiction of the USA it might, I don't know. In parts of Europe it does. I was merely speking of the Southern Jurisdiction of the US. Although that is all but 15 states.

-edit-

from: www.srmason-sj.org...

The new Degrees are being honed through authorized trial performances in Valleys throughout the Southern Jurisdiction and is the official Ritual of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, U.S.A.

The Subordinate Bodies usually confer the Degrees in one of two ways: in a Class which meets once a week over a period of several months, in the spring and in the autumn; or at a Reunion at which the Degrees are conferred or communicated over a period of one or more days.

The candidates are not required to memorize any portion of the Degrees. Every member is encouraged, however, to witness the Degrees thereafter as frequently as possible so that he will become more fully aware of the nature of each Degree and the lessons it teaches.

The reunion is primarily how they do it as far as I know.

I hope that makes sense.

[edit on 1/18/2005 by cotwom]

Originally posted by DasBaldDog

now i see you were being truthful to point out the rediculousness of the above postings.

Abosultely right.

can you really get all these degrees done as quick? In britain you join the blue lodge or craft then the arch and so on, do you still have to become members of all the other side orders and cryptics to get your 32 degrees

Originally posted by quinny
can you really get all these degrees done as quick? In britain you join the blue lodge or craft then the arch and so on, do you still have to become members of all the other side orders and cryptics to get your 32 degrees

The degrees of Scottish Rite over here are merely watched as plays. Side Orders are optional. Mark Master, Royal Arch, Knights Templar etc, are all part of York Rite and are optional. All 32 (technically 29 - initial 3)degrees are strictly Scottish Rite, and can be done after being made a Master Mason.

[edit on 1/18/2005 by cotwom]

Actually, here is an online diary of a Mason in the Northern Jurisdiction,
who explains what he went through becoming a Mason and a Scottish Rite Mason. It doesn't reveal any secrets, it just explains the process.

www.whatismasonry.com...
Excerpt:

The numbers do ascend from 3 but only with the implication that the Scottish Rite degrees compliment and enhance the lessons of the first 3 degrees (which are often referred to as 'Blue Lodge' degrees). Another misconception of Scottish Rite masonry is that you must complete all 29 Scottish Rite degrees to achieve the 32�. Actually, it only takes a minimum of four degrees (one being the 32�). I will have taken a total of five by the time I achieve 32�. To explain it simply, the 29 possible Scottish Rite degrees are divided up into 4 sections. You must take 1 degree from each section to qualify for the 32�. The names of these sections and degrees with the section vary. I belong to the Northern Masonic Jurisdiction of the United States. There is an excellent explanation of the degrees in a website from Washington D.C. Scottish Rite Freemasonry.

The rest of the diary is very insightful I recomend everyone should read it.

Originally posted by quinny
can you really get all these degrees done as quick?

In the USA and Canada, Candidates may petition for the 4� through the 32�. Their are 5 mandatory degrees in the Scottish: the 4�, 14�, 18�, 30�, and 32�. The intermediate ones may be omitted. In the UK this is somewhat different; there, they begin with 18�, omitting the 4� - 17�. This is why here in the US we say "I joined the Scottish Rite", while in England they say "I joined the Rose Croix Chapter", i.e., because they begin with the Rose Croix degree (18�).

In the USA, the degrees are usually given at one time, in a couple of days, and several non-mandatory degrees are usually staged along with them.

In britain you join the blue lodge or craft then the arch and so on, do you still have to become members of all the other side orders and cryptics to get your 32 degrees

It is not necessary in either the USA, Canada, or Britian that you join the Royal Arch in order to join the Ancient and Accepted Rite. The only prerequisite is being a Master Mason in good standing.

me being in the craft have only three and a mark, to progress you need to join the arch, then the perceptory and son on picking up your degrees the more you join. I will have to look into the american degree system everybody seems to be 32nd degree. There are not many people i know in my lodge that has obtained 32 degrees if any. The ones with the most amount of degrees are usually the ones out every night and they are usually the oldest members

Originally posted by Shadow Ghost 7
yes they are look it up in a dictionary if you have to but any type of organization even if it is through degrees means it is a ranking system!

What you don't seem to understand is that a rank system is only useful in an organization in which individuals have jobs and perform specific functions. An example of this would be the military. Freemasonry, being a fraternity in which the only people that have functions are the lodge officers (who are elected by all Master Masons for a one-year term), has absolutely no use for a rank system. Once one has become a Master Mason (or a REAL mason, as some might say), his function and purpose in the fraternity is the same as everyone else's, even 33rds...

...so you can take your "you just don't know because you don't rank" and apply it to a group in which it makes sense.

Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Cat amongst the pigeons:

Is any Grand Lodge officer or the Grand Master higher in rank than a Master Mason or Master of a Lodge?

Why are Grand Lodge offices classified as "active" or "honorary" in "rank"?

Rhetorical questions, of course, for members who know the purpose of rhetorical questions.

MA. The argument here is wether degrees denote rank.

But anyway, I believe that what you have in the instance of Grand Officers and Provincial Grand Officers is a matter of honour - not of rank. Even the Grand Master of UGLE does not "outrank" a Master Mason. He is shown defference due to the high esteem he is held in, but this in itself cannot be construed as rank.

When I was explained the "degree" system before I joined, I too was confused about the "rankings".

The way it was explained to me made it clear to me... maybe it can help here also...

if you think of them on a 3D plane......

Height = your first three degrees of Masonry
Dept = Scottish Rite or York Rite
Width = Appendant orgainizations (Shriners etc)


I know it's been explained 10gillion times on these boards...but hopefully this can only help....

Originally posted by Golfie

if you think of them on a 3D plane......

Height = your first three degrees of Masonry
Dept = Scottish Rite or York Rite
Width = Appendant orgainizations (Shriners etc)


I know it's been explained 10gillion times on these boards...but hopefully this can only help....

I actually really like this description. It makes alot of sense!!!

I think I'll use that when I explain it.

Thanks!

Originally posted by Golfie
Height = your first three degrees of Masonry
Dept = Scottish Rite or York Rite
Width = Appendant orgainizations (Shriners etc)

Very nice! I couldn't have said it better myself

Of course, none of the anti's on this board will believe you.

Golfie: That has to be the best explanation i've heard thanks for the help in getting around this whole concept.

Jimbo

I got a question for the masons on this site! Why is it that every time someone says something about you, about 10 of you "wolf pack" then? I mean when ever someones says something that might offend you and/or disprove something that you guys said you all jump in criticize them then you all go on to dominate the discussioin????

Originally posted by Shadow Ghost 7
I mean when ever someones says something that might offend you and/or disprove something that you guys said you all jump in criticize them then you all go on to dominate the discussioin????

Sorry if that's your impression. But when you have been corrected about a dozen times (as you have) and you still persist with an invalid argument, do you really expect anything else?

Yanno. One of the most tiresome things about discussing Freemasonry is somebody who refuses to accept truth and then resorts to the lame "they ganged up on me" tactic.
If you're wrong - you're wong. It doesn't matter how many people correct you.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
In the USA, the degrees are usually given at one time, in a couple of days, and several non-mandatory degrees are usually staged along with them.

Usually, but not always. I worked in the retail industry and hardly had a day off (particularly a Saturday) but when I joined the Scottish Rite (in 1991) I received the 4th - 32nd Degrees in one day. Granted it was a LONG day, but only the "obligatory" degrees (4, 14, 18, 30, & 32) were actually conferred. The intermeditate degrees were "communicated" Unlike many Scottish Rite Masons I did go back to read and study all the degrees. Many S.R. Masons don't ever take the time to do this.

S&F

The first time I even heard of the Masons was on some "Exposing Conspiracies" TV show. But the few Masons that I have encountered have been cool.
They don't seem like evil people.

Originally posted by Leveller

Sorry if that's your impression. But when you have been corrected about a dozen times (as you have) and you still persist with an invalid argument, do you really expect anything else?

Yanno. One of the most tiresome things about discussing Freemasonry is somebody who refuses to accept truth and then resorts to the lame "they ganged up on me" tactic.
If you're wrong - you're wong. It doesn't matter how many people correct you.

sry but when most of the masons are on this sight are as ignorant as they are then i kinda have to question and try my hardest to discredit them.