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It's becoming clearer: IS vs US and the bigger picture.

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posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 02:06 AM
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What doesn't make sense to me about the videos is the fact that ISIS cannot be stupid enough to think that releasing videos depicting the execution of US citizens, and threatening the US to halt airstrikes, would actually succeed in achieving that objective. They must know that people will simply get more enraged, and that the airstrikes and possibly other military actions will increase.

It seems some people cannot wrap their heads around the possibility that the videos are fake yet ISIS is still a real organization. Some comments make me think that some believe that if the videos are fake, ISIS must be fake, or a product of the US government or something like that. This is not the case at all. I am relatively certain these two journalists were actually murdered, but I am not convinced ISIS is responsible. However, I do not think the US intelligence community is likely to be responsible either.

Again, the threats in the video will not be heeded, and ISIS would understand this. Therefore it seems to me that whoever is responsible created these videos because they understood that it would rally US support for war with ISIS. Why would ISIS go out of their way to enrage the US, all the while claiming they don't want them in Iraq? If they didn't want the US in Iraq, they should simply try to avoid messing with US citizens as much as possible. It is no secret that US citizens had lost their stomach for war before all the troops were pulled out of Iraq, and that even if ISIS was doing its brutal things in Iraq it was unlikely the US would send in troops again. However, if ISIS purposefully targets US citizens then it only increases the odds that the US will reinstitute military efforts. Again, this doesn't make sense because ISIS claims they want the US to STOP military hostilities against them. So why poke the bear with a stick if you don't want to anger it?




posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 02:15 AM
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I'm going off topic here but why is it that whenever a US senator or congressman talks about what is good for America, he/she always phrases it as, 'What is good for America and Israel.'?



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 07:27 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

Thank you! You have said what I have been trying to say but could not find the right words. And I couldnt agree more!



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 07:43 AM
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The more I see of ISIS the more I just think we are being completely 'played' into going along with yet another stupid war that wastes our taxes on things the rich want to sell ie arms rather than spending our taxes on social improvement in our own countries, which heavens knows need investment.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 07:53 AM
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Like I said in the other thread, ISIS isn't a threat to mainland America. America hasn't had a threat to its mainland in over 70 years. Our military is SUPPOSED to be for defense. If we aren't defending ourself we shouldn't be at war. Oh and preemptive retaliation isn't defense it's AGGRESSION. There is no reason for us to go back to Iraq. I'm not falling for this s# again.
edit on 3-9-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:00 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

We've somehow lost the ability to fight a war successfully. I only opine because you used one of my quotes in your OP so I felt that my view needed to be expanded a bit.

We fight now, to win hearts and minds. PC has no place on the battlefield and yet, it is PC that is dictating our actions.

War is killing the other side to the point where they either surrender or there is no-one left.

We don't fight that way any longer.

Yet the other side does.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:24 AM
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originally posted by: Kuroodo
Not sure what video you watched. But both videos (both men who got killed) included a decapitated body at the end, with the victims head ontop of their body, blood everywhere.


I was very clear when I said I think these guys are dead, but they didn't die in these videos. In both videos the knife is either fake or deliberately very dull so it won't cut.

Now, the body at the end, does it look real? Yea it does, but do you KNOW it's real? I wish I could answer that with certainty. Do you really assume this stuff to be real after it's practically been funneled right into the eyes of a targeted audience? I recently saw a movie where Tom Cruise died about 100 times, but in reality he's still alive.

I wish things were as simple as you believe. I wish we could take things at face value. But that's the whole point of this thread, you don't find it a bit convenient that the MSM are pushing this video down everyones throats?? They are essentially DARING people to go watch it; all but demanding that we all go find it.

I'll tell you what to do to understand my point better: www.liveleak.com...

I have seen that video once in my life, and I lost my lunch and felt ill for the rest of the day. I'm not daring anyone to watch that video, but if you do, you'll see how people really act when faced with such horrors of war.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:34 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: 8675309jenny

We've somehow lost the ability to fight a war successfully. I only opine because you used one of my quotes in your OP so I felt that my view needed to be expanded a bit.

We fight now, to win hearts and minds. PC has no place on the battlefield and yet, it is PC that is dictating our actions.

War is killing the other side to the point where they either surrender or there is no-one left.

We don't fight that way any longer.

Yet the other side does.


Beezer, I'm really glad you replied actually. As I said in the OP, I think your reaction (same as my initial reaction also) is the honest one. It's the instinctual, straight-from-the-gut reaction. But there is no honesty in war anymore. Who knows when there even was?? When the redcoats marched in orderly little lines??

War is about winning. By whatever means usually. Deception has been a key to successful war for millenia.

You said yourself war is about winning hearts and minds, well then logically now, which side do these videos play into? And then factor in how to influence the Facebook generation..... factor in those recent Facebook mass opinion psychological experiments.

Often we humans don't think beyond what's put on the plate in front of us. As a species we are pretty damn easy to steer
edit on 3-9-2014 by 8675309jenny because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:42 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

As I mentioned to someone yesterday, wars are now being won by how many "likes" you get.

It's not about right or wrong, good or evil, anymore.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 08:49 AM
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originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
What doesn't make sense to me about the videos is the fact that ISIS cannot be stupid enough to think that releasing videos depicting the execution of US citizens, and threatening the US to halt airstrikes, would actually succeed in achieving that objective. They must know that people will simply get more enraged, and that the airstrikes and possibly other military actions will increase.

It seems some people cannot wrap their heads around the possibility that the videos are fake yet ISIS is still a real organization. Some comments make me think that some believe that if the videos are fake, ISIS must be fake, or a product of the US government or something like that. This is not the case at all.


EXACTLY.

Just like with Nick Berg. Berg was detained by US forces in Iraq, they interviewed him and then instructed him to leave Iraq. The video was time stamped two different days, the interview day and execution day. What likely happened is after his release he was killed in the streets by whoever, and when US forces found him, they realized the opportunity they had to distract everyone from the Abu Ghraib abuses. They called in a mortician to clean him up and make him look good again and had 4 guys dressed as Jihadis supposedly murder him on camera.

I can tell you for a fact with my background as a medic, Nick Berg was already dead in the video. Not only did he not move one inch while the guys read out there jihad bulls##t, his eyes were totally glazed and the video quality is crap... there was also almost no blood. Professional doctors who have analysed the video agree.

This is the same playbook as the Nick Berg video, and whoever is doing these, they learned from the last time.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:08 AM
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the decapitation of 2 News reporters, correspondents by ISIS does not have to be a Staged Theatrics video by ISIS nor Langley Virginia nor by the Zionist Neocons

the set up might truly be from the Jihadists...
they are showing their contempt for the Obama WH and the cabal of Muslim Brotherhood policy makers in the administration

ISIS is completely against the backsliders in the Saudi monarchy who control the Kabbah & Mecca & buy off the radicals & Wahhabists...even as Saud invites the USA troop & pre-placement of Arms cache' and missile defense systems on Arabian soil...
to ISIS the Caliphate & Caliph (al-Baghdadi) Ibrahim, both the Saudi monarchy and Obama + Muslim Brotherhood are blasphemers

and any Western military campaigns against ISIS will draw more Jihadists to the cause ...to build the Caliphate into a great power in the ME & EurAsia & N Africa areas



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: Bilk22
Is this why Obama always refers to them as ISIL and not ISIS or IS. Is it because he has to keep Syria as part of the acronym? I found it odd that Obama was referred to directly as well.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

Well I've seen enough gore (been through a website that I won't mention, a couple of times) to know what a decapitated body looks like.

ISIS has also posted other execution videos (where they shot a mass amount of people). Also look at the news/actions that have been made by ISIS. Yeah that concludes to me that the video's are real.


BUT! I don't think the main purpose of the videos is to threaten Obama or to call him out. I believe that it's to get a reaction from the public. This will lead to a shocked and confused public to do anything, even go against the president.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: 8675309jenny

As I mentioned to someone yesterday, wars are now being won by how many "likes" you get.

It's not about right or wrong, good or evil, anymore.


War was never about right or wrong, good or evil. Those are just buzzwords of the past to get the populace riled up to go to war.

War is about deceiving your public first ("we need to save these people!") then justifying your actions later once the war is over and the losing sides inhumane actions are exposed ("see look how evil they all were!") while disregarding the inhumane actions that the winning side did ("they were justified to stop the evil!")



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

War is about winners and losers, while good and evil, right and wrong may be subjective, in war, not everyone gets a trophy.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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originally posted by: Kuroodo
a reply to: 8675309jenny

Well I've seen enough gore (been through a website that I won't mention, a couple of times) to know what a decapitated body looks like.

ISIS has also posted other execution videos (where they shot a mass amount of people). Also look at the news/actions that have been made by ISIS. Yeah that concludes to me that the video's are real.


Really? So do you also know what an eviscerated body looks like?

Is this a real one?


That was "Saving private Ryan"


You honestly can't fathom that someone might be orchestrating this to incite a very specific reaction?

Look I wholeheartedly agree the ISIS recruitment videos are real, and show real horrors.

But these journalist 'executions' are just the Facebook/Twitter version of "SADDAM HAS WMD!!"

Watch the Chechnyan video I linked and you will understand.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

So define what it means to win a war. The way I see it, the only people who "win" at war are the ones who finance it.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: beezzer

So define what it means to win a war. The way I see it, the only people who "win" at war are the ones who finance it.


Killing or defeating your enemy to the point where they can't fight back.

THAT is my definition of war.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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In my opinion these videos are real and are there to give "street cred" to this group. Here you have a relatively new terrorist organization using social media to recruit new, younger followers.

How many terrorist groups can claim they directly called out the POTUS and got away with it.

Prior to this, groups would have to sneak lengthy videos out, now they can send out a YouTube vid or a tweet.

Reichstag Fire? No, just a group trying to be the next big thing. Now if they catch an IS member blowing up Capital Hill then maybe you've got that angle.

Honestly, apart from some on this board, there really isn't that many folks calling for war. With the war weariness in the US right now, I believe it will take more than a few videos for the general populace to call for all out war.



posted on Sep, 3 2014 @ 10:55 AM
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a reply to: beezzer

So who is the victors there? The soldiers? Probably not, they are either maimed, dead, or forgotten once the war is over. The people? Probably not, they either have their livelihoods torn apart, loved ones killed, or are completely unaffected by the war. The country? Probably not, war costs money and puts the resulting country into debt (fun fact: America still hasn't paid off its debt from WWII); not to mention it destroys infrastructure and can make the countryside hazardous (with unexploded ordnance and various other artifacts from war). It also destroys resources.

Like I said, the only victors are the ones who finance it, either directly with money or through arms and weapons. If you aren't directly financing a war that you are clamoring for, you are just advocating for lining some sociopath's wallet at the expense of thousands if not millions of human lives, resources, destruction, and devastation.

The only time you should be supporting a war is if it is a war of defense and then only until the other army stops assaulting your country.



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