Protect and Serve Does Not Mean Best and Brightest

I don't have any reason to hate on cops other then what I've seen in the ever factual media, but this one reminded me of an incident that took place in college to a friend in Newark, NJ a while ago. The officer made my friend blow into the device at least 7 or 8 times after receiving a result he didn't like and then arrested my friend for non-compliance when he couldn't do it any more(he had asthma or something similar). Later after jumping through endless hoops, the court dropped all charges.
Other then that my relations with police have been pretty benign. Of course there are a few questionable incidents in that I really deserved it, but we won't talk about that right now. . .

It should come as no surprise that many police officers aren’t the brightest crayons in the box. After all, a smart enough person would eventually begin to question the enforcement of arbitrary and immoral laws that put innocent people in cages for victimless crimes.
However, did you know that there is an actual court ruling on record that allows for the rejection of those who score too high on the police intelligence test? Yes, in 2000, a man’s bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test. He then lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.
Keep this precedent for low intelligence in mind when watching the video below. You can see how the cop reacts belligerently to being proven wrong on basic math. “You know what? F*** it! You can argue it in court!” “Before you make that statement f*** yourself.”

*** Warning - Some Bad Language in Video ***

It was also stated that the individual in the video should never have divulged the information to the cop, that he drank 2 beers earlier.
The Free Thought Project

Being intrigued by this story I also included the issue of the IQ scores for police ruling which ocured in the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York during the year 2000.

A man whose bid to become a police officer was rejected after he scored too high on an intelligence test has lost an appeal in his federal lawsuit against the city.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court’s decision that the city did not discriminate against Robert Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.
“This kind of puts an official face on discrimination in America against people of a certain class,” Jordan said today from his Waterford home. “I maintain you have no more control over your basic intelligence than your eye color or your gender or anything else.”
He said he does not plan to take any further legal action.
Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
Most Cops Just Above Normal The average score nationally for police officers is 21 to 22, the equivalent of an IQ of 104, or just a little above average.
Jordan alleged his rejection from the police force was discrimination. He sued the city, saying his civil rights were violated because he was denied equal protection under the law.
But the U.S. District Court found that New London had “shown a rational basis for the policy.” In a ruling dated Aug. 23, the 2nd Circuit agreed. The court said the policy might be unwise but was a rational way to reduce job turnover.
Jordan has worked as a prison guard since he took the test.

ABC News

I have an issue with this, when has this been done before; to find the least favorable candidates for a job?
IQ never remains a static issue, it also changes through time with the individual. Depending on the surroundings and circumstances the person is growing up and living in, results could be quite different at alternate times. So by rational, choosing a job because a person has a low IQ is not always the right choice.
Doing a job also not only includes IQ, but determination, a will to succeed, perseverance, patience and yes purity of thought. All of which I find necessary qualities for a good honest police officer.
I have also known many people who have had very high IQ's but ended up losing jobs just because other qualities were greatly lacking.

The reasons they give above for doing this type of selection just don't make sense to me unless all they are looking for are programable drones to move around like pawns.

TTYS. . . AB

a reply to: AnteBellum

What does it say about the person who criticizes but does nothing?

I love it when people lump people into groups. I love it even more when wide sweeping pronouncements and judgments are made. It's called bigotry. Seems that the fad of the moment is making it out that all cops are bad, stupid, racist etc etc etc.

When you need one, I imagine you are not thinking about how stupid they are, but rather how much you need them.

You are just plain better than them, aren't you?

Uh hail yayu!

Eh. Overqualified for position happens in all walks of life. Cops actually do have a higher IQ than average. You don't need a genius to be trustworthy and do basic paperwork and have street smarts.

They're not trying to recruit idiots, just not people who are going to get bored and leave after they've had countless dollars in training.

It's not a huge conspiracy to get a bunch of dumb robots in uniform.

I'm still trying to figure out what 'Protect and serve' means!

There was an article in our local paper a few months back about the qualifications being to rigid. These requirements were keeping blacks and females from making the force. I can't imagine lowering the bar would raise the quality of applicants only increase the diversity.
But maybe that would help with interaction with the public.

a reply to: bbracken677

I didn't see where the OP was criticizing at all, but merely stating her own experiences and then showing backup from media.

I will say this though, just recently a family member was involved in an accident, after 3 sobriety tests they still weren't satisfied that he was not intoxicated so they made him take a breathalyzer, past that also. So what does the officer do? Charges him for the accident when the other driver was the one who pulled out and across the highway with oncoming traffic. Even the insurance company said he should not have been charged.

Situations like this and the many others that continue to come to light make you wonder about the intelligence levels are of LEO's. No judgement but like so many I question just what the hell is going on.

a reply to: 2manyholes

Understood. Individual situations are just that... individual.

Cops are people too. When people reach perfection then they have the right to expect cops to be perfect. If one breaks the law, they should suffer the same penalties as anyone else.

But frankly, I have watched punks smart off to cops at the wrong time under the wrong circumstances and wind up charged legitimately. Who is the stupid one there?

They do a job that no one should have to. They see the worst that humanity offers and then when they pull over some smart assed kid who wants to show his buddies how tough he is...well...what do you think is going to happen?

Personally I would never do the job... I do not have the self-control I see. Every time I have occasion to interact with an officer I thank them for their service. I do have the capacity to understand that not all are bad. They are people and, as such, are subject to the same personal issues the rest of us are.

They just happen to have to put up with the rest of us and keep a cool demeanor about it. Something I do not have to do. I have no problem telling an idiot that he is an idiot.

a reply to: 2manyholes

Many people only interact with the police when they've done something wrong and that tarnishes the interaction because people don't like to admit they've done something wrong.

I see so many of these personal stories that are negative because people automatically believe their cousin or friend or coworker. People don't like being caught. Everyone in prison is innocent or it was someone else's fault.

When I got caught driving drunk they gave me three field sobriety tests and a breathalyzer too. Any idea how many people lie? Cops probably hear "I've only had two beers" every night. If they think you're drunk you're blowing. I was very displeased when I saw red and blue lights behind me. But I was cooperative and aware the thing was my fault. The cop actually drove me home that night because I refused to call anyone.

I used to want to be a cop and if anything it's becoming much more difficult to land a job. You're not competitive in bigger departments if you don't have a BA, military experience, an exemplary record, good driving record, decent IQ, any mental problems, decent level of fitness, aptitude for test taking etc...

Back in the day you had to be 21 and have graduated high school.

a reply to: bbracken677
Actually we are both on the same page here. I would not be able to be a police officer either and mostly because of the criminal elements and wise ass punks that feel they are above the law. I would not be a High school teacher either for the same reason, I would be fired in a NY minute because I would loose self control.

I do understand that there are good/great policemen/women out there, I have personally knew of more than a few myself. Unfortunately there are so many right now that do not fit in that category that one has to wonder just what is causing this and that is how I interpreted the OP and video that was shown.

a reply to: AnteBellum>>>> Have you taken a good look at our government lately? Stupid is the new normal in DC. There's stupid, crazy and corrupt or a combination of the three.

a reply to: 2manyholes

Unfortunately there are so many right now that do not fit in that category that one has to wonder just what is causing this and that is how I interpreted the OP and video that was shown.

More than fair. I actually think that the perceived increase in incidents has a lot more to do with police actually reporting abuse and charging officers at a higher rate. It seems bad but may actually be good, if that makes any sense.

I'm also fairly convinced social media and sites like ATS have a lot to do with the perceived uptick in police violence. I wouldn't know about hardly any of these cases if I wasn't online and just read the local paper. News has changed drastically.

a reply to: Domo1
Domo I do understand what you are saying and I have had my own negative experiences with LEO that was in the wrong and it cost me money that I little could afford.

As I said I would not be an officer for anything. For the record, I have 0 tolerance for drinking and driving nor do I have any pity for the one who gets caught, my motto is "you play you pay" and here in Florida a DUI will run you thousands of dollars when all is said and done.

a reply to: bbracken677

Relax take a deep breath and try to understand before you spew forth a rant worthy of an Emmy!

Wasn't at all trying to be disrespectful to cops, just the system in my normal saterical manner.


To all:
Is it me or is everyone a little jumpy these days. I blame the media!

a reply to: AnteBellum
No it's not you, people can just be a bit touchy at times. It happens to the best (and the worst...me) of us! At times, when our guard is down and er.... /exit stage right

I did have to laugh at the cop saying that 0.08 plus 0.08 is NOT 0.16 but maybe that's just me.

Carry on!

PS The best lawyers AND cops tell you one thing, NEVER talk to a cop. Ever. Say hi, say no thank you. Ask if you are being detained even. If he says No, walk away. Politely, calmly and respectfully. Keep walking. That's what I learned here on ATS anyway, but then again, I don't live in the USA and Dutch cops are slightly less trigger-happy than their American colleagues.

I have shadowed the recuiting divison at our police department and I feel that the new candidates that are applying/being hired seem to be of lesser quality.

Is that a result of them having lower IQ's? I cannot say for certain.

However I do know that they are not actively looking for candidates with low IQ's.

As I have stated many times before I think the reasons we are seeing less qualified candidates are due to pay, blanket negative treatment by a lot of the public, lack of training due to budget cuts, and a degradation of our culture.

1. Pay. Who wants to do such a stressful job for $35,000 a year before taxes?

2. Blankent negative treatment. Who wants to do such a stressful job for so little pay and be treated like they are less than human?

3. Budget cuts. All areas of training have been cut. Also there is little to no incentive to be a a Field Training Officer (FTO). That is causing departments to appointment FTO's with very little experience (only 1 year in many cases) to train new officers. Those FTO's do not have enough experience to train new officers. This is creating a new wave of officers who have no idea what they are doing.

4. Degradation of our culture. This one pretty much explains itself. A self centered, impatient, disrespectful culture with very little work ethic does not discriminate. This is something that is happening in all career fields.

So in my opinion no elaborate conspiracy to hire idiot officers exists.

Any real or perceived degradation in our police force is simply a result of a failing economy and culture.

a reply to: AnteBellum

Perhaps IQ tests are testing more than intelligence.. At best, they are a poor indicator. At worst, the results are parsed by an algorithm that has little relevance to intelligence, instead looking for more 'pertinent' information.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Well stated! Thank you.

Well my IQ is I htink slight less than average. So this means most cops are smarter than me. I hate being dumb, but how can I miss what I don't have.