Conclusion..All who call on the name of Jesus will be saved.

a reply to: arpgme

Ah c'mon surely I don't need to break down the difference between calling on His name or sneezing right before "calling out" His name do I?

Pontius said Jesus too, the Jews also that had Him arrested in some sly way before being crucified "called out" the name Jesus as well and Judas? etc. etc...yee haw

but besides all this childishness, "being raised from the dead" is a whole new ball game

Hebrews12 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

as to your other error about your KJV only assumption, it is purely relative to "public domain" and out of habit though admit I do like the poetic tones it impresses me with but sometimes I will use others if key phrases or words have a better meaning and dominately have used the NKJV, ASV and NIV in personal studies over the years

However, most Bible copyright holders have generous fair use policies in place that let you quote and reprint Bible passages up to a reasonable limit. In many cases, these policies are explained on the Bible's version information page biblegateway.com

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Rustami

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 1 Corinthians15

Your faith would not be able to bring about righteousness in you, and so the futility of it.
Righteousness equals life, and as Jesus had life in him, though he was killed as a criminal, it demonstrated that he was accepted as righteous by God, even if the religious leaders did not find him to be so.
That acceptance of Jesus by God is our acceptance, in that we are his brothers, making it possible for us, though we are born human in a world weighed down with sin, we can rise above it with God's power.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Acts 3:16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

a reply to: Rustami

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In the English translation It sounds like Jesus is putting this into speculative terms with "that they may" inserted, as if it is conditional, but in the Greek, it is all positive, as if it is an accomplished fact.
The thing Jesus is talking about (according to Acts, as it has Paul relating this commission to him by Jesus) is "those who have been sanctified".
It is stated as an existing thing, which Paul is being sent to "open their eyes" to this condition that these people in this group have already received, including the release from sin.

This word here, hēgiasmenois, "having been sanctified", is interesting.
I made a blog page for this verse where you can play a recording of it being read in the Greek.
readingthebibleingreek.blog.com...

a reply to: Rustami

OK, well... I'm not saying that such a thing isn't possible, because our all powerful and sovereign God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants, and with whomever He wants. So I'm not discounting the possibility. What I am discounting is the probability, because we have a canonized and complete Bible. The Bible is the Word of God, and is the complete revelation from God to Man. If Jesus Christ were to take it upon Himself to visit people, that would mean that the Word of God is not the complete revelation of God to Man. What you claim He said to you is nothing that He hasn't said already in the Gospel, and like Jesus said to Thomas "you believe because you have seen me... blessed are those who believe on me who have not seen". Hebrews 11 says that faith is the evidence of things not seen. All of that to say this... I don't believe your story because if true it means that you don't need faith in Christ in order to be saved, because you have seen Him and He spoke to you, therefore you can be saved based on physical evidence and not faith. So either you are the only person since Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father to have experienced this, OR your story isn't true. Having said that, I'm not accusing you of blatantly lying, perhaps you did experience something, but I would argue, based on logic and overwhelming Biblical evidence, that what you did experience was not the LORD Jesus Christ visiting you in person.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

By your logic, none of the disciples are saved, because they too saw Him in person. What about Paul? He didnt believe until Jesus personally interviened.

Also, the "coming of the perfect" is not the cannonized scriptures, but the Eternal State, after Satan is permanently bound. For now we know in part, but when the perfection comes, we will know completely as God knows us (on the individual level). That is when prophecy will be dismantled.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: Rustami...our all powerful and sovereign God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants, and with whomever He wants.

I have a bone to pick with that masochistic scumbag, then.

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: Rustami

OK, well... I'm not saying that such a thing isn't possible, because our all powerful and sovereign God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants, and with whomever He wants. So I'm not discounting the possibility. What I am discounting is the probability, because we have a canonized and complete Bible. The Bible is the Word of God, and is the complete revelation from God to Man.

Jesus did audibly speak the instant I opened the cover of a Gideon NT but before reading anything and after a few decades now I still can't get enough, specially considering how it is relative to my firstborn

Revelation 19:13 And he is arrayed in a garment sprinkled with blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and quick to discern the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Revelation 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

If Jesus Christ were to take it upon Himself to visit people, that would mean that the Word of God is not the complete revelation of God to Man.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God; and they that hear shall live. John5

and suddenly there shone round about him a light out of heaven:and he fell upon the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest Acts7

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Matthew26

What you claim He said to you is nothing that He hasn't said already in the Gospel, and like Jesus said to Thomas "you believe because you have seen me... blessed are those who believe on me who have not seen". Hebrews 11 says that faith is the evidence of things not seen.

yeah if He had said something that did'nt we would'nt be chatting, ha

1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

All of that to say this... I don't believe your story because if true it means that you don't need faith in Christ in order to be saved, because you have seen Him and He spoke to you, therefore you can be saved based on physical evidence and not faith.

what about "we who are many make up one body" in connection to eternity? a witness to the truth?

John 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians1

So either you are the only person since Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father to have experienced this, OR your story isn't true. Having said that, I'm not accusing you of blatantly lying, perhaps you did experience something, but I would argue, based on logic and overwhelming Biblical evidence, that what you did experience was not the LORD Jesus Christ visiting you in person.

you should hear about the angel I saw when I was @13yo who shone like lightning- makes these alot more interesting

1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first

for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow Matthew28

I appreciate your sincerity and honesty, though I need no reminding of the what seems to be obviously a few very rare occurrences for whatever reason but at the same time I also enjoy the fascination of genuinely knowing the very real other world to come peaceful type immortal stuff and all that that entails..so on that note I hope at least you or whoever can be encouraged to know that eternity is beyond any shadow of a doubt a certain reality with Jesus obviously at the helm, promises etc. just as it is written

Does anyone else just ignore all the Bible quotes?.
OP way to go turning more folk away from your club lol.

Just stop eh? If people want to be saved they don't need Jesus at all just love for their fellow man.

a reply to: boymonkey74

Yes. Bible quotes betray both a person's inability to think for themselves and their reliance on fantasy to get through life. It's actually quite scary, if you think about it.

a reply to: BasementWarriorKryptonite

Yeah I used to think similarly, like- "it's all just something for the weak minded to make some sense out of life" until that night

Proverbs3 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

yes it can be scary

and what ye hear in the ear, proclaim upon the house-tops.And be not afraid of them that kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Matthew10

a reply to: Rustami

I actually admire people who have faith in their chosen god, I really do. I don't wish I could be one of them, but I do sometimes think I'd like the sense of solace they seem to have.

I like to find my peace in other ways and I don't need to be saved, so you and I are all good

originally posted by: Rustami
It's a no brainer to me as one who has been personally visited by the raised Lord Jesus Himself but what's not commonly thought of is how He destroys all PTB in high places and their groupies in this relation.

Romans 10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Hebrews7 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians2

This is taking the text out of the text, to justify an argument.
Why not read this text in its entirety.

Ifall who called onJesus were save, how do you explain this verse

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Calling Jesus your saviour and king and not living a true sincere Christian life is hypocrisy. Hypocrits are unwelcome.


Read the text, all of it, not the parts you want to believe.

a reply to: borntowatch

Did you just tell me not to post a partial scrip to attempt at getting across a point (that is already understood in context) before doing the same and then calling me a hypocrit? Why did'nt you just post the entire chapter or book if really concerned with parts? Was the word "do and do" to them/you, did they boast of doing some things while using His name as if deserving and yet did'nt know Him? Someone pointed out the scrip about the demons knowing who the Lord is even saying his Name

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John1

(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth Roman9

For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his Hebrews7

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:And I GIVE unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. John10

and here we see accusations no matter what is being done or not

For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. Matthew11

It is one thing to call Christ your saviour and believe, it is another thing all together to let Christ be lord over your life.
To submit your whole life to Him, as is requested.
Look at the story of Israel, Gods chosen Gospel, always calling Yahweh their God, unfortunately they constantly rebelled, to the point where they were rejected. Christianity is now Gods Chosen message.
If only one thing can be learned out of the Old Testament, it should be to Christians, God is not a birthright.
We have a responsibility to live accordingly.
It sounds to me like you are saying we just need to call His name, thats wrong, thats out of context.

You can throw hundreds of texts saying that just believing that Christ is saviour is enough, I could throw hundreds back saying our actions are as important.
Simply what I am saying is that there is a balance between the two, faith and actions.
Israel got it wrong, were justly punished.

Many who believe in Jesus, call His name, do His work, serve, wont have a relationship with Him and will be cast out of His kingdom. Do you deny that

Why didnt I post the whole book, because I dont think you would read it, nor is this the place.
If you were truly interested in serving God, you would carefully consider my words, prayerfully engage the Holy Spirit and finally study to see if your understanding was correct.
That is what the bible teaches.

James in his epistle of straw was very clear about the connection between faith and works, you should read it, study it, prayerfully consider it.

You are welcome to ignore everything I say.
God bless.

originally posted by: borntowatch
It is one thing to call Christ your saviour and believe, it is another thing all together to let Christ be lord over your life.
To submit your whole life to Him, as is requested.

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1 Corinthians 12

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise Ephesians1

Look at the story of Israel, Gods chosen Gospel, always calling Yahweh their God, unfortunately they constantly rebelled, to the point where they were rejected. Christianity is now Gods Chosen message.
If only one thing can be learned out of the Old Testament, it should be to Christians, God is not a birthright.

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.Galatians4

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the (believing) wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the (believing) husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1 Corinthians 7

We have a responsibility to live accordingly.
It sounds to me like you are saying we just need to call His name, thats wrong, thats out of context.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. Romans12

You can throw hundreds of texts saying that just believing that Christ is saviour is enough, I could throw hundreds back saying our actions are as important.

For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Simply what I am saying is that there is a balance between the two, faith and actions.
Israel got it wrong, were justly punished.

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 9

Many who believe in Jesus, call His name, do His work, serve, wont have a relationship with Him and will be cast out of His kingdom. Do you deny that

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Matthew 25
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

Why didnt I post the whole book, because I dont think you would read it, nor is this the place.
If you were truly interested in serving God, you would carefully consider my words, prayerfully engage the Holy Spirit and finally study to see if your understanding was correct.
That is what the bible teaches. James in his epistle of straw was very clear about the connection between faith and works, you should read it, study it, prayerfully consider it. You are welcome to ignore everything I say.
God bless.

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think

Nice scripture, it explains nothing, actually makes you look shallow and blunts your argument.

Seriously, a discussion?

I dont think you fully understand the concept of ATS and relationship.
Believe what you like, just dont think your actions dont have repercussions in this world and the next.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Nice scripture, it explains nothing

It's precisely what the Dr. ordered

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Hebrews 4
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

actually makes you look shallow and blunts your argument.

What argument??

What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Romans 8

Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature James 3

Seriously, a discussion?
I dont think you fully understand the concept of ATS and relationship.
Believe what you like, just dont think your actions dont have repercussions in this world and the next.

I don't think you're seeing the repercussions of your actions from the beginning.

And as he said these things unto them, the scribes and the Pharisees began to urge him vehemently, and to provoke him to speak of many things:Laying wait for him, and seeking to catch something out of his mouth, that they might accuse him.
James4

a reply to: DISRAELI

sorry I missed this earlier, the destruction part? if so, yes. I believe what I've seen and heard though real and happened literally as in seen with my eyes (arcangel?) and heard (Jesus) with my ears are symbolic for the bigger picture so to speak and clearly time specific

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming 2Thessalonians2

Another worth noting-
Acts 13
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption

when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.1Corinthians15

That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him Ephesians1

But now we see not yet all things put under him.Hebrews2

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
a reply to: Rustami

I actually admire people who have faith in their chosen god, I really do. I don't wish I could be one of them, but I do sometimes think I'd like the sense of solace they seem to have.

I like to find my peace in other ways and I don't need to be saved, so you and I are all good

well I appreciate your better tone towards me but just to be clear I really did'nt choose other than deciding to set down the pistol in order to get the Gideon NT part I suppose but even that is debatable, see-

Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. John6

Excellent thread Rustami and those quotes in the OP clearly show Jesus and God are two different beings.