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Chirac and Saddam in Bed Together?

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posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 11:53 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
['You do realise' these things ... don't you???
(sounds so rude, doesn't it?)


Oh dear, you should look at the way how you discuss this matter, hardly any manners.
Just an example.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
What is so bad about Humanism? Besides the fact that
Secular Humanists miss the entire reason for exhistance - nothing.
America is One nation - UNDER GOD. It's in our Pledge. It's on
our money. It's in our blood and in our souls. We don't just
put faith in humans ... we put faith in GOD. The religion of
Secular Humanism and the soul of America are NOT compatible.

America is not Europe. We don't want to be Europe.
Most of us have ancestors that left Europe because we
wanted to get away from it. Bu-Bye to Europe.

And I proved you were wrong when you implied humanism is a religion (and stubbornly pasting links), furthermore insinuating that we Euro's want to change the religion of the US. Also posting fake pic is really good manners right ?
It's good I am a Christian too (and an Humanist), so I forgive you
-perhaps you should read more in Matthew about the golden rule


Blobber




posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Blobber

Originally posted by FlyersFan
['You do realise' these things ... don't you???
(sounds so rude, doesn't it?)


Oh dear, you should look at the way how you discuss this matter, hardly any manners.
Just an example.


Hey bucko ... I was saying 'You do realise' BACK AT him.
He said it first. I was pointing out that it was rude of him to
speak that way. DUH!



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Blobber
Cargo aye, but some people here claim they have the evidence that France acted scandalous (although they haven't provided me one yet).

Here's an excerpt from an article which outlines France's culpability:

Tariq Aziz, former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister, has admitted to personally giving oil illegally to French officials. "According to Aziz, both parties understood that resale of the oil was to be reciprocated through efforts to lift U.N. sanctions, or through opposition to American initiatives within the Security Council."
The Duelfer Report also states: "In 1988, Iraq paid $1 million to the French Socialist party, according to a captured IIS report dated 9 September 1992. Abd-al Razzaq Al Hashimi, former Iraqi ambassador to France, handed the money to French defense minister Pierre Joxe, according to the report. The IIS instructed Hashimi to 'utilize it to remind French Defense Minister, Pierre Joxe, indirectly about Iraq's previous positions toward France, in general, and the French Socialist party, in particular.'"
American liberals are constantly fretting over the fact that France didn't support America in our war in Iraq. But why would they? They were Saddam Hussein's accomplice in stealing billions of dollars through the United Nation's oil-for-food program, a program meant to feed poor, starving Iraqi citizens.

Link
There are many more such instances of proof available. That is why Annan is trying to block the results of the ongoing investigaions.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Blobber
And I proved you were wrong when you implied humanism is a religion
Also posting fake pic is really good manners right ?


- No you didn't prove anything. You posted OLD information on
Secular Humanism. At one time it was a philosophy. Now it's a full
blown religion.

- You really need to get a life, ya' know? I posted the fake picture
with a
as the introduction. The title of the thread was
'Saddam and Chirac in bed'. The picture was FUNNY and obviously
ment to be that way. The author of this thread understood that.
Grow up.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:08 PM
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Below are the top 10 google search replys on France and the oil for food scandal.

May favorite is, How to buy a French Veto by Dick Morris.

The U.N. Oil for Food scandal
www.washingtontimes.com...

Iraq war opponents fill oil-for-food 'vouchers' list
www.washingtontimes.com...

Oil-for-Food Scandal Draws Scrutiny to U.N
www.foxnews.com...

The sordid truth about the oil-for-food scandal
www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk.../opinion/2004/10/10/do1001.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2004/10/10/ixopinion.html

Investigate the United Nations Oil-for-Food Fraud
www.heritage.org...

Oil-for-fraud
www.economist.com...

Iraq's Oil-For-Food Program -- Much Worse Than We Thought
www.aina.org...

Friends of Saddam
www.acepilots.com...

How to Buy a French Veto
frontpagemag.com...



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:12 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
- No you didn't prove anything. You posted OLD information on
Secular Humanism. At one time it was a philosophy. Now it's a full
blown religion.

My search in encarta Humanism:
... Humanism, in philosophy, attitude that emphasizes the dignity and worth of the individual...

My search in encarta secular humanism:
nonreligious world view: a philosophy or world view that stresses human values without reference to religion or spirituality...
encarta.msn.com...
Buh Bye


Blobber



[edit on 6-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by SIRR1
Below are the top 10 google search replys on France and the oil for food scandal. May favorite is, How to buy a French Veto by Dick Morris.


We're back on topic .... at last! Thanks for the great info.
It'll make excellent reading and it'll be very educational.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by Blobber

Originally posted by FlyersFan
- No you didn't prove anything. You posted OLD information on
Secular Humanism. At one time it was a philosophy. Now it's a full
blown religion.

My search in encarta Humanism:
... Humanism, in philosophy, attitude that emphasizes the dignity and worth of the individual...

My search in encarta secular humanism:
nonreligious world view: a philosophy or world view that stresses human values without reference to religion or spirituality

Buh Bye


Blobber


[edit on 6-12-2004 by Blobber]


You just made the point FlyersFan was trying to tell you. You are out of date on the subject. Secular Humanisim IS now a religion.

learn



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:17 PM
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Jsobecky might have posted something that is really worthy to look at. I hope I can reply to you later tonight


Blobber



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid

Originally posted by Blobber

Originally posted by FlyersFan
- No you didn't prove anything. You posted OLD information on
Secular Humanism. At one time it was a philosophy. Now it's a full
blown religion.

My search in encarta Humanism:
... Humanism, in philosophy, attitude that emphasizes the dignity and worth of the individual...

My search in a encarta secular humanism:
nonreligious world view: a philosophy or world view that stresses human values without reference to religion or spirituality

Buh Bye


Blobber


[edit on 6-12-2004 by Blobber]


You just made the point FlyersFan was trying to tell you. You are out of date on the subject. Secular Humanisim IS now a religion.

learn


Oh wait so I must trust a "Christian" site, rather than Encarta. No thank you, perhaps you should learn


Sorry, but now I must really have my dinner: and encarta did say PHILOSOPHY


Blobber


[edit on 6-12-2004 by Blobber]



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:43 PM
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In the US it is offical.

dianedew.com...



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Trent
You do realise that the Vatican is in Europe and many people in Europe are very religious don't you? BTW Jesus was a humanitarian ..


No. People in Europe are loosing their religious life very fast.
Last stats I saw on France said that only 5% of the 'Eldest
Daughter of the Catholic Church' (France) goes to mass on
Sundays anymore.

Jesus was a humanitarian ... but he wasn't a HUMANIST.
Two different things.

'You do realise' these things ... don't you???
(sounds so rude, doesn't it?)


I wasn't trying to be rude it was just a question. I apologise if it sounded rude, that was not my intention. And no i was not aware of those statstics in France, thank you for informing me. however France is only one country in Europe and I would be interested to see the statistics for Italy, Germany and others.

Anyway here are some stats from the CIA world fact book. looks like the US may have more non-religious people than you think.

US

Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10%

France

Roman Catholic 83%-88%, Protestant 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 5%-10%, unaffiliated 4%

www.cia.gov...


[edit on 6-12-2004 by Trent]



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Blobber
And I proved you were wrong when you implied humanism is a religion
Also posting fake pic is really good manners right ?


- No you didn't prove anything. You posted OLD information on
Secular Humanism. At one time it was a philosophy. Now it's a full
blown religion.

- You really need to get a life, ya' know? I posted the fake picture
with a
as the introduction. The title of the thread was
'Saddam and Chirac in bed'. The picture was FUNNY and obviously
ment to be that way. The author of this thread understood that.
Grow up.


He who is without sin shall cast the first stone!



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
Tariq Aziz, former Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister, has admitted to personally giving oil illegally to French officials. "According to Aziz, both parties understood that resale of the oil was to be reciprocated through efforts to lift U.N. sanctions, or through opposition to American initiatives within the Security Council."
The Duelfer Report also states: "In 1988, Iraq paid $1 million to the French Socialist party, according to a captured IIS report dated 9 September 1992. Abd-al Razzaq Al Hashimi, former Iraqi ambassador to France, handed the money to French defense minister Pierre Joxe, according to the report. The IIS instructed Hashimi to 'utilize it to remind French Defense Minister, Pierre Joxe, indirectly about Iraq's previous positions toward France, in general, and the French Socialist party, in particular.'"
...


Thanks for giving me this info, while I have looked into the Duelfer report and many other papers, I have not encountered this one yet.

We all know that when it is election time, that there always will be foreign/domestic groups who fund candidates for their own interest. An amount of $1 million, is very low.

So in 1988 Al Ashimi gave the French socialist party $1 million, according to Aziz. Don't forget that in 1988 Iraq was still "a good guy" for the west after fighting the Iranian extremists. Suddenly in 1992, when sanctions have already been implemented due to the invasion of Kuwait, the Iraqis reminded the French where the Iraqis stood in 1988, they reminded the French of the gift.

1- Aziz thus made an "allegation" about the gift. Can Aziz be trusted (he is in US custody)? furthermore are there any paper trails which can support Aziz' claim that in 1988 indeed $1 million had been given to the French socialist party?

2- And now, more important, in 1992 (when sanction had already been implemented) according to the "captured" IIS report: " ... The IIS instructed Hashimi to 'utilize it to remind French Defense Minister, Pierre Joxe, indirectly about Iraq's previous positions toward France, in general, and the French Socialist party, in particular.'"
BUT nowhere it is stated that the French (suddenly) reminded the gift that was given to them in 1988, and thus acted in favor for the Iraqis. Honestly even if it is true, a gift of $1 million is so small in world politics, that I am very sceptical that it can influence any French foreign policy.
Furthermore, it was much later that France requested easing of the sanctions. That was in 1998 -see the difference in time?- with Russia, China, UK, the Netherlands and many other countries when they wanted to lesten the misery of the Iraqi society due to the sanctions. In that time a report circulated in the UN that 500,000 children have died because of the sanctions that have been imposed since 1990.
www.cnn.com...

So, after reading the quote you have given me, I don't see any evidence that the French acted scandalous. The quote only stated that the French was reminded of the gift (which was very small anyway), but did not stated that the French acted in favor of the Iraqis. One can even argue that the quote (which you have given to me) is very suggestive, as it suggests (without any real evidence), but not explicitly state that the French acted scandalous.

Blobber



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
In the US it is offical.

dianedew.com...


With respect, DrHoracid, you and I well know that Christianity around the world is devided in numerous "factions" each with their own interpretation of biblical verses and their own rituals/habits. Therefore, what is for one "official" ( you directed me again to a Christian site) is for the other faction not necessarily "official".

Furthermore, the Encarta link I have given you is an American encyclopedia. When you type in the Encarta "humanism" or " secular humanism" , Encarta will explain that they are both philosophies and not as you have stated religion.

So, I would rather base my opinion what is official on a neutral encyclopedia rather than on the interpretation of one or several Christian "factions".

Blobber


[edit on 6-12-2004 by Blobber]




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