A Parent's Worst Nightmare

a reply to: skitzspiricy
Isn't a form of faith healing done in China that works?

The babies that died above of pneumonia didn't have to die. I can't understand how they let the second child suffer like that.

It is known that all treatments will work for some people and not others, that doctors can kill their patients with their mistakes as well as heal them, and that every decision in medicine has to be weighed the pros against the cons.

The core issue here is really natural law in my opinion.

Who does Mother Nature give the imperative to best advocate for the survival and overall welfare of an individual - parents, or the state/doctors backed by enforcement from the state.

Who loves the individual?

Some things are just common sense and we know them by our intuition.

a reply to: Mary Rose

The child has the right to be shielded from the mother's incompetence/negligence/ignorance.

I ask again, Mary: should a mother be allowed to "protect" their child sick with pnemonia through faith healing instead of seeking medical treatment?

a reply to: GetHyped

A mother is the most responsible person for the child, as compared to the doctors and the state, who are motivated by their own self-interest, as we all are.

You seem to think the doctors and the state are wise and all-knowing. Is that the case?

a reply to: Mary Rose

So you think it's ok that a mother be allowed to "protect" their child sick with pnemonia through faith healing instead of seeking medical treatment? What about the child's right not to be killed by their parent's stupidity?

a reply to: GetHyped

You are avoiding my question, aren't you?

Answer the question.

a reply to: Mary Rose

Your question is a straw man. Point to where I said "the doctors and the state are wise and all-knowing" and I'll happily answer your question.

In the meantime, you think it's ok that a mother be allowed to "protect" their child sick with pnemonia through faith healing instead of seeking medical treatment? Yes or no?

originally posted by: GetHyped
Your question is a straw man. Point to where I said "the doctors and the state are wise and all-knowing" and I'll happily answer your question.

No, it's not.

Your posts seem to indicate that you think the doctors and the state are wise and all-knowing.

Is that what you think?

a reply to: Mary Rose

Yes, it is a straw man because a) it's not what I've argued, b) it's not what I think and c) it's not what I said.

This is nothing more than a diversionary tactic to avoid answering the question: do you or do you not think it's ok that a mother be allowed to "protect" their child sick with pneumonia through faith healing instead of seeking medical treatment?

Yes or no?

a reply to: GetHyped

Of course it is.

There are many treatments for illnesses. It is a matter of personal choice which treatment to undergo.

Here is an example you probably can understand.

The official story on the treatment of cancer is that the best we have is chemo and radiation.

However, were I to be diagnosed with cancer, there is no way I would subject my sick body to that assault.

We are all in charge of our own destiny.

In fact, that is what it is to be alive.

For a child, the parents are responsible for that child's destiny.

No one else.

a reply to: Mary Rose

Wow. You really believe that a parent's right to believe in nonsense and put their children in danger trumps the child's right not to be killed due to their parent's negligence and ignorance. That's sickening.

a reply to: GetHyped

What you view as nonsense is your opinion.

You cannot speak as God, which is what you would be doing if you try to trump parents' rights.

a reply to: Mary Rose

You cannot speak as God

The corpses speak for themselves:

A Pennsylvania mother and father who believe in faith-healing were sent to jail Wednesday for causing the death of their young, sick child by refusing to take him to the doctor. It was the second of Herbert and Catherine Schaible’s children to die under their care.

time.com...

which is what you would be doing if you try to trump parents' rights.

The child has a right not to die because of their parent's ignorant and stupid beliefs.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: rickymouse
This is probably an example of some official trying to play god.

No, this is an example of a very sick child having parents who believe that their internet research trumps professionals.

Regards

You're an idiot... Yeah that's right I called you an idiot.

The treatment these people were researching is a mainstream treatment, not some backwards snake oil scam treatment on some obscure, home made website claiming cure for all.

Proton beam treatment is provided in many hospitals and accredited clinics in a number of countries and the list of countries is growing. The British authorities have stated that Britain too will have the treatment available eventually and that it is an effective tool.

However it is bureaucracy that is preventing the child from getting this treatment because someone has decided to play god and won "for now".

The internet dose have some valuable, peer reviewed information out there you know, not everything you read, listen to or watch on the net is fake or untrue. And in this case the parents were right and had every right to seek the best treatment for their child. Someone up there however didn't like being undermined and has put this child at risk to validate their own opinion. If the child ultimately dies as a result, I would bet too, that whom ever is responsible will also blame the parents for this to cover their own asses.

a reply to: GetHyped

There are many corpses from mainstream medical mistakes.

I see ATS has a thread on it: "Death by Medical Mistake - big numbers."

a reply to: Mary Rose

Drs are not God. If people have a doctor that doesn't collaborate with other doctors or refuse to listen to a patients concerns, they can run far and fast... oh wait, the hospital called the police.

a reply to: Mary Rose

So you think that justifies a parent killing their child from an easily treatable disease because of their stupid and ignorant beliefs?

This is your logic? You're ok with this? You're ok with innocent children dying like this?

a reply to: GetHyped

You don't realize how you keep repeating yourself, do you?

And that you're not making any sense?

Perhaps you should just stop posting and think about it.

That's my suggestion.

and think.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Mary Rose

This is why socialized health care is bad. The state determines what care you will get, and unless you have your own insurance that you can afford, you take what care the state will give you when and where they say they will give it to you no matter what treatments may be available elsewhere.

Better that than NO care at all.


Anyway the British government have admitted its a cock-up this is a exception not the rule here in the UK

Im sure I can find horror storys in the USA.

a reply to: Mary Rose

"Not making any sense?" It's not difficult to grasp. Supporting parents who withhold treatment of easily treatable diseases that result in the death of a child because it's their "right" is morally abhorrent.