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NYT : Arm Ukraine or Surrender

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posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 05:22 AM
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originally posted by: FraternitasSaturni

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: bjarneorn

They have the latest generation of Russian T-72BM tanks which are only used by Russia and have never been exported to any country.

I know I know .. all you want to talk about is nukes and you wont be happy until Russia uses some.


No they dont have the "latest generation of Russian T-72BM" lol...

You're so anti-russia it makes my stomach turn... I think if people decide to be anti-something, at least let them be anti-something they know at least something about.

You are so ignorant and full of hate it's astounding.

This variant, distinguished by the prominent Kontakt-5 Explosive Reactive Armour (ERA) arrangement - the boxes on the turret front - is commonly referred to by Western sources as the T-72BM.

It is operated by the Russian Army in large numbers, but crucially it is not known to have been exported or operated outside of Russia.

There's a video of the Tank in a Rebel military convoy with Rebel colors/flag.
www.bbc.com...




posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 05:41 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Completely false. The majority of Ukrainians wanted to be European. Even East Ukraine voted for it in every place the Rebels did not prevent voting to occur.


Completely right, you`re just spewing Western propaganda.

Poll: Ukrainians Want Freedom from Outside Intervention




A new poll shows that the vast majority of Ukrainians feel that no outside country has a right to be involved in decisions about their country's future.

The U.S.-based Gallup poll said its April survey of 1,400 Ukrainians, outside of the Crimean peninsula annexed the month before by Russia, showed 78 percent opposed to outside interference.


www.voanews.com...
edit on 1-9-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 05:49 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Completely false. The majority of Ukrainians wanted to be European. Even East Ukraine voted for it in every place the Rebels did not prevent voting to occur.


Completely right, you`re just spewing Western propaganda.

Poll: Ukrainians Want Freedom from Outside Intervention




A new poll shows that the vast majority of Ukrainians feel that no outside country has a right to be involved in decisions about their country's future.

The U.S.-based Gallup poll said its April survey of 1,400 Ukrainians, outside of the Crimean peninsula annexed the month before by Russia, showed 78 percent opposed to outside interference.


www.voanews.com...

Maybe you should actually read your source. They want the ability to decide themselves, that doesn't mean they have not decided. They don't want to be FORCED to be European any more than they want to be FORCED to be Russian.

From the same Poll ...

Do you think the following country has played a positive or negative role.

Poland:
Positive - 51.4%
Negative - 14.5%

European Union:
Positive - 49.5
Negative - 22.7

Russia:
Positive - 15.6
Negative - 66.4

They want closer ties with Europe, and to distance themselves from Russia.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:01 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Completely false. The majority of Ukrainians wanted to be European. Even East Ukraine voted for it in every place the Rebels did not prevent voting to occur.


Completely right, you`re just spewing Western propaganda.

Poll: Ukrainians Want Freedom from Outside Intervention




A new poll shows that the vast majority of Ukrainians feel that no outside country has a right to be involved in decisions about their country's future.

The U.S.-based Gallup poll said its April survey of 1,400 Ukrainians, outside of the Crimean peninsula annexed the month before by Russia, showed 78 percent opposed to outside interference.


www.voanews.com...

Maybe you should actually read your source. They want the ability to decide themselves, that doesn't mean they have not decided. They don't want to be FORCED to be European any more than they want to be FORCED to be Russian.

From the same Poll ...

Do you think the following country has played a positive or negative role.

Poland:
Positive - 51.4%
Negative - 14.5%

European Union:
Positive - 49.5
Negative - 22.7

Russia:
Positive - 15.6
Negative - 66.4

They want closer ties with Europe, and to distance themselves from Russia.


No they didn`t, because of the country being so divided, most wanted to be just independent.

There`s a huge difference in being pro West and actually wanting to be part of it. So yes the west part was more pro West, but the majority of the Ukrainians (that`s West, South, North and east) wanted to be independent.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:13 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I just posted poll data. They want Russia to leave them alone, and they want closer ties to Europe. They don't want any country to come in and tell them what to do .. like Russia is doing. That's why the Russian opinion is so negative, and the European is positive.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I just posted poll data. They want Russia to leave them alone, and they want closer ties to Europe. They don't want any country to come in and tell them what to do .. like Russia is doing. That's why the Russian opinion is so negative, and the European is positive.


You just interpreted poll data being more pro West as wanting to join the West, and that`s just a blatant lie !

That`s exactly what kind of propaganda has been spewed out by MSM, it`s just twisting facts to suit your needs.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:30 AM
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a reply to: bjarneorn




No, the problem is Russia isn't arming the rebels ... they don't have jet fighters, and only had "one" anti-aircraft battery. They don't have tanks, or artillery. Nor do they have missiles.


Really...





So then how did the separatists bring down those planes without artillery, you really do make yourself look sad when you make a comment such as that.







Care to rephrase that comment?



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:45 AM
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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Hm? What hate man? What are you talking about? Did I show hate on something, anything? If anything it was on your ignorance... stop with that "hate" crap! What hate! lol... are you high or something?

You're the one hating on Russia and spreading propaganda that Russia is lending their best tanks to the rebels in ukraine LOL... as if that makes ANY SENSE AT ALL! And btw you cant even tell a T72BM from a T72M1 or T72B with K1 or K5 or any of those with relikt, you dont know their engines if their V12s diesel 1000 hps or not, laser guided missiles what kind of other goodies they have... REALLY? Russia would send their top tech to the rebels? Does that make any sense to you?

If Russia wanted they would go over ukraine as if it was nothing. They wouldnt even need the rebels.

What hate... I'm trying to bring you down to reality and you insist on living in that fantasy world... and in that world you hate russia so you accuse everyone else that doesnt agree with you of hate. But know... you're the one who hates. Russia, and everyone else that doesnt agree with you because for you they align with Russia.

Just a heads up... Europe will never let them in before that issue with Russia is settled.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 06:47 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well its easy... if Russia was arming them so hardcore as you say, one S400 and there wouldnt be ONE SINGLE PLANE in the sky. They're still flying there right? There you go...

EDIT: oh the transport plane lol... you can take that out with slow AA guns come on. Give them some WW2 Flaks and they'll do their job just fine for transport planes. You serious? "taking out all those planes" lol...
edit on 1-9-2014 by FraternitasSaturni because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-9-2014 by FraternitasSaturni because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 07:15 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukrainian army has been encircled lots of times at different places the last few months, even large groups (confirmed by Kiev themselves). They have abandoned/surrendered lots of heavy military equipment and those have been picked up the Separatists.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 07:37 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukrainian army has been encircled lots of times at different places the last few months, even large groups (confirmed by Kiev themselves). They have abandoned/surrendered lots of heavy military equipment and those have been picked up the Separatists.


Let them be... with some luck, they'll find Ukrainian rebels with T-90s... since Russia sends them their best tech. Or the T-90 SM... lol

But they will see T-80s... thing is... Ukraine already had T-80s since the 90s... and take a look at that picture.

With luck they'll see the rebels with T-95s...



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 07:46 AM
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originally posted by: FraternitasSaturni

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukrainian army has been encircled lots of times at different places the last few months, even large groups (confirmed by Kiev themselves). They have abandoned/surrendered lots of heavy military equipment and those have been picked up the Separatists.


Let them be... with some luck, they'll find Ukrainian rebels with T-90s... since Russia sends them their best tech. Or the T-90 SM... lol

But they will see T-80s... thing is... Ukraine already had T-80s since the 90s... and take a look at that picture.

With luck they'll see the rebels with T-95s...


Just wait till the US starts to send in weapons, after a few months the Separatist have a change to take control of the whole of Ukraine with those NATO goons giving tactical advice in Kiev.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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a reply to: buntalanlucu
The UN Security council wants to condemn Russia but the question is, what is up with the great U.N. not being able to independently verify whether or not the Russians have in fact sent troops into Ukraine?

But on another note, how much do we all know about Ukraine or it's history, I have to post the Wikipedia entry, it is very interesting.
Ukranian SSR



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 08:22 AM
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You may ass well do that also, Considering you Armed ISIS
and are promoting Warfare Worldwide in a desperate bid to
save the Bankers..
Your way 2 late!!!
The Brics Alliance will not be derailed by your Murderous Schemes..

Once this site was unique in its News NOW its just a troll machine..
Fox News may well be interested in shares for this Warmonger Forum..



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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If US/NATO arm Ukraine then Russia will be obligated to arm all the enemies of US/NATO around the world.

Not worth the multiple costs that would boomerang on the alliance.




posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ukrainian army has been encircled lots of times at different places the last few months, even large groups (confirmed by Kiev themselves). They have abandoned/surrendered lots of heavy military equipment and those have been picked up the Separatists.


Thank you for pointing out just "HOW" the rebels have armed themselves.

They don't need help from Russia...they are ding fine on their own...taking all the weapons they need from the Ukraine.

Though they should get more rifles...some I've seen in pics look nearly as old as me (67).



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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"Canada is interested in joining a NATO joint expeditionary force of at least 10000 troops that is being created to bolster the alliance's eastern flank

expeditionary force?

havent heard that phrase since ,,ohh ww one.

expeditionary force ,, what is this 1914 or 2014?



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: BobAthome
"Canada is interested in joining a NATO joint expeditionary force of at least 10000 troops that is being created to bolster the alliance's eastern flank

expeditionary force?

havent heard that phrase since ,,ohh ww one.

expeditionary force ,, what is this 1914 or 2014?


WWII, the British had one :

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

ya no kidding,,The most notable evacuation was from the Dunkirk

expeditionary force's always give a chill.



posted on Sep, 1 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: phinubian

For gods sake please learn what bricks is before trying to invoke it. Its economic ONLY. Not military.

Open your damn mind, learn, and stop believing everything Russia tells you to believe.

Bricks is 5 nations and won't be anywhere close to claiming anything in economics until 2050.


Being china once again sent troops across the border into India tells me bricks is not all its cracked up to be.


edit on 1-9-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



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