Democracy and the US government CANNOT work with an ignorant populace!!!!

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: xuenchen
Most (if not all) "definitions" seem to be coming from similar Progressive sources.

It's been happening for over 100 years.

That's a pretty convenient statement. Impossible to back up but convenient. That way ANY source that doesn't back up your point of view can be poopooed.

I think we are being assaulted by the slow boiling frog method....
Fabian Society


Barack Obama, Fabian Socialist

a reply to: xuenchen

Which again has nothing to do with the topic. No worries. I'll put my logic up against anyone's propaganda any day.

originally posted by: onequestion
Yes, I'm saying it,

Our democracy is a lost cause with an uninformed and politically inactive populace.

Unless good people inform themselves and start taking political action in their local communities and on a larger scale then democracy cant work.

The power brokers and political elite know this. Thats why they're kids are in privately funded school systems, thats why our education system is garbage and im talking across the board all the way to state colleges.

This is why our media is full of propaganda and lies. This is why we are kept in perpetual war.

This is why our economy is ALWAYS on the brink, its to keep us in a perpetual state of survival so we don have the drive to activate.

IT CANT WORK PEOPLE! Stay informed! Constantly inform everyone around you! Find common ground with people instead of pedantically debating individual points and looking for reasons to divide.

I share your sentiments somewhat and for the most part. However, I would forward two important points in contradiction to the above. One: attacking--or more benignly put--assigning blame to the citizenry in general for the failures of their government--particularly a government as labyrinthine as America's--is something of a straw man fallback vis-à-vis the immensely effective psychological conditioning that for centuries now has cleanly divided the population on all the most important social issues.

Two: I think most of us have arrived at (even if very personally and in private) the realization that the American political system from city hall to the White House is rigged; that no amount of grass roots rallying and pilgrimage to the polls will effectively introduce a "pure" third party candidate into actual actionable office; and that much of what occurs within and results from our nationwide election system is predetermined.

Essentially, attempting to fight with our votes for a better system within the constraints of said system whose primary defense mechanism is to prevent that, is futile. Thus blaming the individual to your left or right, judging them ignorant of a rigged process or variable issues, or otherwise transferring responsibility from the elected officials who annually wreck the American train, is in my opinion akin to shooting oneself in the foot and then asking the gun or the trigger finger for first aid.

Aa reply to: onequestion

Amen to that. What you said is the number one reason why so many "educated" Americans (but some of these 'educated' Americans are really educated but their in narrow fields, with blinders on to geopolitical realities. They are incredibly naïve & trusting of government, mass-media, certain trusted public figures. Yes, these overly trusting Americans may not like politicians, based on party, still stuck in the outdated two-party, left/right paradigm, vigorously promoted by the media. Some distrust virtually all politicians, they gripe about their incompetence, ambition, more or less minor crimes such as milking the system, hand in the public cookie-jar, but not as willing, evil co-conspirators in systematically destroying the constitution, propagation needless aggressive agitprop, black-ops & warfare for falsely-stated reasons. (even if any reasons, to launch war, genuine, it is usually never good to launch or incite war.

So, take my father, he earned a BA, social sciences, MA, education, before age 25. He taught (mostly FUSD, Fresno Unified...but also some intermittent part-time teaching at CSUF/Fresno State & FCC) PolySci/Government & Forensic Debate, among other high-school subjects, from 1959-1995. He always kept his FUSD-job, working his butt off, while serving on the Fresno Citycouncil from 1973-1989, that's being elected & re-elected 4 times to 4 consecutive 4-year terms; his last term, as mayor. Over those sixteen years he miss no more than five of the 832 meetings occurring in hi tenure. He learned the "in's & out's" of real-life big-city politics, dealing with the unions, especially the police & firefighters' unions, he learned out local governments work & interface with everything from hosting world-famous celebrities, traveling to Japan, SouthAmerica, Carribean & Europe as a diplomat to Fresno's many sistercities. How gov interfaces, politely on a public level and on grittier, meaner levels.
So here we have an academic who is extremely book-educated in the constitution, polyci, city-management, history but also had more thn 2 decades (he he had run for office prior to '73 & after '89) of real-life experience. He knows congressmen, senators, etc. Now, when I tell him about the topics discussed here, NWO, the USA becoming a dictatorship & the strong probability of a major nuclear war, his eyes glaze over & he shouts

I don't wanna talk about it! I think you're exaggerating, & even if you're right so what!? Your mother & I are too old & you'll just get thrown in jail & ruin your life!

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: JimTSpock
a reply to: xuenchen
Nazis are ultra right wing communists are ultra left wing. That's what I got in school. And right and left meet and become virtually the same at the extremes. Totalitarian states.

True Conservatism has limited government, therefore authority is limited.

And maybe onequestion's assessment of the school system is correct.

Many people are confused with the definitions of "Left / Right".

Naziism and Communism both use very similar programs to achieve "Socialistic" goals.

Even many big corporations use "Left Wing" style programs.

Perhaps it's time to re-assess the spectrum.

Most (if not all) "definitions" seem to be coming from similar Progressive sources.

It's been happening for over 100 years.

Actually the best way to look at it and how I have been taught is 3D with left/right economics on one axis and freedom/totalitarian on the other.

Gives a lot more flexibility.

Only narrow set simple minded people stuck in partasian politics insist on just left/right .

a reply to: NonsensicalUserName

Indeed, there is the position that Nazi Germany was helped to power for this very reason. The revolution in Russia had many industrialists frightened for their control on wealth. At the time, these industrialists knew that Marx held that the true revolution would come about in an industrialized country which Russia was not at the time. Germany however was industrialized with many people leaning heavily towards this philosophy. From an industrialist position this could not be allowed to happen.

Enter the money to fund a bulwark against this revolutionary spirit and the advent of Hitler. Interesting that his party was called National Socialist German Workers' Party. Socialist? No way. Workers Party? Uh uh. But sounds good to those with those leanings.

Hitler was mad and foist upon the European scene to stymie the spread of communism. It got out of hand and took a war to kill his mad dream. And who benefited? Mostly American industrialists.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

keep in mind Germany had seen an attempted communist revolution in 1919, with the spartacist uprising.

The Spartacist uprising was really more of a general strike, but was crushed violently by a paramilitary group known as the freikorps(free-corps. a citizens militia made up mostly of rural ww1 veterans), under hire by what would later be known as the weimar republic.

the leaders of the uprising Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg, were arrested and informally murdered without trial by the freikorps.

Ironically the friekorps had and would attempt to fight against the weimar government, in order to return the kaiser to his throne.

Interesting. Considering the Constitution, We are a Republic...Not a democracy. The constitution does not even mention 'Democracy' once in the document.

Unless I am wrong, I will wait for a rebuttal.

a reply to: onequestion

Ironic this thread is. Op you might want to understand the difference between a republic and a democracy........You mentioned something about not being informed........LOL.




The US is not a democracy it is a republic. Why would they want to push into all the people's minds over all these years this lie..........Find the facts it will open up the real truth.



Democracies = the rights of the masses over the individual.

Republic = Individual rights over the rights of the masses.

originally posted by: LeoStarchild
Interesting. Considering the Constitution, We are a Republic...Not a democracy. The constitution does not even mention 'Democracy' once in the document.

Unless I am wrong, I will wait for a rebuttal.

You beat me to it...ARGH. But you are 100% correct. It is so funny to see a thread calling people ignorant and ranting on about something they themselves have no idea about.


Actually it is not funny it is sad that people do not even understand this simple fact. It is also why people blindly give up liberty in the name of security. Individual rights are all but gone thanks to simple minded blind people following the herd.

I've heard George W. Bush refer to America as a democracy and I was just watching the US meet the press show and Chuck Todd the long time political analyst said 'our democracy' and so did the other presenter. I don't think it is incorrect to refer to the USA as a democracy or democratic in modern times.

If you want the most technical term, our country is a constitutionally limited representative democratic republic.

so from the founding or in the mid 1780s until the mid 1830s we referred to America as a Republic. From the 1830s until the modern era we referred to it as a democracy, but then when Joe McArthur came along he started, he and some of his advisors, and Karl Rove really got on this big time, said, "wait a minute, calling this a democracy sounds too much like the Democratic Party. We should call it a Republic because that sounds more like the Republican Party." And so the talking point on right wing radio has been, and Limbaugh's been pushing this for 20 years now, has been that we don't live in a democracy, we live in a republic, and that you shouldn't call it a democracy, it's a republic. And the reason why is because they like the word republic because it sounds like republican and they hate the word democracy because it sounds like democratic. And ... that's the bottom line, we live in a democratic republic.

www.thomhartmann.com...

I found this article interesting.

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: JimTSpock
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
Section 4 of the constitution...
"The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence."

The author of the Pledge of Allegiance was a socialist, Francis Bellamy. The Pledge happened during the Progressive Era

Francis began his career as a preacher, but after several years of service, he was ousted by a congregation that disliked his tendency to describe Jesus as a socialist.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Progressive Era was the beginning of mass brainwashing, the imparting of the idea that intentions matter more than results.

Schools didn't have Stars and Stripes until the 1890's.

Bellamy's account[edit]

In Francis Bellamy's recollection of the creation of the Pledge, he recalled "At the beginning of the nineties patriotism and national feeling was at a low ebb. The patriotic ardor of the Civil War was an old story ... The time was ripe for a reawakening of simple Americanism and the leaders in the new movement rightly felt that patriotic education should begin in the public schools."[12] James Upham "felt that a flag should be on every schoolhouse",[12] so the publication "fostered a plan of selling flags to schools through the children themselves at cost, which was so successful that 25,000 schools acquired flags in first year."[12]
en.wikipedia.org...

The western world almost went the way of individualism in the late 1800's. The collectivists started promising security and social utopia and thus were able to make the Federal Reserve, and World War I.

The Progressive Era made the United States a democracy.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: xuenchen

If you check the VAST majority, fascism is considered right wing. Has been since forever. Obfuscation will not change that. You DO know that saying something doesn't make it true, right?

Truth accords with reality.

Fascism and Communism are both totalitarian, they both claim control over anything and everything in society.

On a dimension with freedom, individualism, and limited government on one side;
and control, collectivism, and unlimited rulership on the other,
Fascism and Communism are almost identical.

The vast majority who claim fascism as being on the right are collectivists obfuscating big government.

a reply to: paraphi

Well the general populace is woefully misinformed, at least in my experience.. I don't know where you live

a reply to: Semicollegiate
Francis Bellamy's political leaning doesn't change the fact, that our form of government is explained and spelled out by the founding fathers, and the constitution. If we were living in a democracy, you and I wouldn't be having this exchange, and this thread would not exist, because the 51% would have already voted away our right to any form of free speech.

Until the constitution is officially shredded. We are not a democracy. Though I won't argue that we have become something other than what was intended. But that's for another thread.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Here is an old newspaper listing for the communist rules for revolution.

Sound familiar?

These 'rules' looked like garbage to me so I checked and found out it's a hoax - political propaganda from the McCarthy years. Given the language, someone with a high-end education must have written them. It's the same tactic as the assholes used to create the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion.'

Tap into what people want to believe and give it right back to them as something 'official,' 'discovered' or 'leaked.' It still works if those 20 stars mean anything

When The New York Times ran an article on this piece back in 1970, it had already been circulating for about twenty-five years. The Times reported that neither the National Archives, the Library of Congress, nor university libraries had a copy of any such document. When Montana senator Lee Metcalf looked into the issue back then, he checked with the FBI, CIA, and the Senate Internal Security Subcommittee; he found that "exhaustive research" had proved the rules to be "completely spurious," and he declared that "the extreme right also follows rules, one of which is to make maximum use of false, misleading and fear-inspiring quotations."

Nonetheless, numerous members of congress have received copies of the Communist "rules" list from alarmed constituents over the years and, believing that nobody else was yet aware of them, have inserted them into the Congressional Record. This list has also been reproduced in many newspaper columns and letters to the editor. Read more at www.snopes.com...

originally posted by: onequestion
Yes, I'm saying it,

Our democracy is a lost cause with an uninformed and politically inactive populace.

Unless good people inform themselves and start taking political action in their local communities and on a larger scale then democracy cant work.

The power brokers and political elite know this. Thats why they're kids are in privately funded school systems, thats why our education system is garbage and im talking across the board all the way to state colleges.

This is why our media is full of propaganda and lies. This is why we are kept in perpetual war.

This is why our economy is ALWAYS on the brink, its to keep us in a perpetual state of survival so we don have the drive to activate.

IT CANT WORK PEOPLE! Stay informed! Constantly inform everyone around you! Find common ground with people instead of pedantically debating individual points and looking for reasons to divide.

nicely said.

Some people are so misinformed, uneducated that while its their right to vote, perhaps they shouldnt.

People should need a test when they vote to see if they actually know what they are voting about and for.

The people who actually run the countrys are rarely any better and will say anything as long as "some" people like it.

You gotta know all the facts before a vote, i think things like war should be put to a general vote, yes you vote a person to a position to take care of your affairs while you work and take care of your family, but a war needs to have the countrys approval, a president of anywhere should just be able to war dec on a whim.

“Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
- Isaac Asimov

a reply to: Kandinsky

Thank you K.
Paper that has turned a light brown= ancient truth. Oh yeah.
I had intended to question the use of this so called manuscript myself but had been to busy.
Indeed those rules sounded just too perfect for me to listen to. I might have gotten back to challanging the article but you have done so more completely and hopefully with a spike through its heart.
Thanks again

What Is a Democracy?

Nowhere is the word "democracy" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence or the U.S. Constitution. How could that be? Our government is a democracy!

a democratically-based government was seen as superior to the monarchies of Europe.

So of course DEMOCRACY is a form of government that gives power to the people. But how, when, and to which people? The answer to those questions changes through history.

The Greeks are famous for practicing DIRECT DEMOCRACY, a system in which citizens meet to discuss all policy, and then make decisions by majority rule.

But how could direct democracy work in a large, diverse population spread over a geographical distance? Generally, the answer has been that it can't. In its place, the AMERICAN FOUNDERS put "indirect" or "representative" democracy. In this system, REPRESENTATIVES are chosen by the people to make decisions for them.

The Founders preferred the term "REPUBLIC" to "democracy" because it described a system they generally preferred: the interests of the peopled were represented by more knowledgeable or wealthier citizens who were responsible to those that elected them. Today we tend to use the terms "republic" and "democracy" interchangeably.

Democracies have come in many shapes and sizes as reflected by the different answers to questions of how, when, and to which people power is given. And although it is not mentioned in the Declaration of Independence nor the Constitution, democracy clearly links to "rule of law" to form a basic principle that profoundly shapes American government.

www.ushistory.org...

It's true that the US is not a direct democracy like the ancient Greeks, it is a representative democracy like many other countries in the world such as Australia, Canada, NZ, UK, France etc etc etc. The modern term democracy just means you vote to elect your political leaders and America certainly does that. Many other countries do this and they are considered democracy, America is no different or particularly unique or special. The US constitution explains how to vote and elect political leaders, that is democracy. Direct democracy is the so called mob rule and the term democracy seems to have been politicized in America and perhaps that is where some of the confusion comes from.


Democratic Values — Liberty, Equality, Justice

www.ushistory.org...

The following countries or regions are categorised by the Democracy Index 2012 as Full democracy:[65]

Norway
Sweden
Iceland
Denmark
New Zealand
Australia
Switzerland
Canada
Finland
Netherlands
Luxembourg
Austria
Ireland
Germany
Malta
United Kingdom
Czech Republic
Uruguay
Mauritius
South Korea
United States of America
Costa Rica
Japan
Belgium
Spain

en.wikipedia.org...

The Democracy Index is an index compiled by the Economist Intelligence Unit, that measures the state of democracy in 167 countries, of which 166 are sovereign states and 165 are United Nations member states. The index is based on 60 indicators grouped in five different categories: electoral process and pluralism, civil liberties, functioning of government, political participation, and political culture. In addition to a numeric score and a ranking, the index categorizes countries as one of four regime types full democracies, flawed democracies, hybrid regimes and authoritarian regimes.

en.wikipedia.org...


ELECTION LAW: AN OVERVIEW

U.S. Constitution

Article I, Section 2 - House of Representatives
Article I, Section 4 - Elections of Senators and Representatives
Article II, Section 1 - Election, Installation and Removal of the President and Vice-President

www.law.cornell.edu...

Now don't forget to VOTE to ELECT your favourite or least despised REPRESENTATIVE politician. lol.