Ebola in the ER

originally posted by: kruphix
In both scenarios, absolutely nothing is scary unless the others in the waiting room were touching the guy and while he was bleeding, crapping, or vomiting all over the place.

You can't get Ebola by looking at someone, by being in the same room as someone, or being next to someone who died from Ebola.

That may be true if the guy was bleeding, crapping/vomiting in the waiting room. People would stay away from him whether he had ebola or not.

The real concern would be his chair and the bathroom facilities if he used them. If he sat in the chair/crapped his pants the chair could be contaminated by leakage.

Personally I'd get up go to the bathroom if I crapped my pants in the waiting room. In a busy ER waiting room if you leave to use the facilities, there's a good chance someone will take your seat.

Seems infected medical staff in Africa exposed co-workers before they were at the vomiting/crapping their pants stage. They couldn't have continued working if they were vomiting all over the place. I imagine fever was their only symptom at that stage.

Maybe you're careful when using public restrooms but small children often hold onto the seat/don't wash their hands.

I provided non-emergency medical transport, I routinely used hospital bathrooms until I caught a horrible bug. I always wash my hands but I touched many door handles on the way out. After that I didn't go into medical facilities unless I had to assist clients. I'd head straight for the door, use hand sanitizer before getting in my car.

It's the people you don't see vomiting/crapping their pants who will get you. They leave their mark and you won't always see it. Lots of people use taxi service to provide transport to ERs. People won't always admit they've just crapped their pants in your taxi. I had one client vomit in the backseat and I never heard her do it. Luckily it was in the floor mat and I found it before someone else did.

a reply to: soficrow

So many things I want to say after reading just one of your links. From the second link:

A doctor in Port Harcourt died last week after treating a contact of the Liberian-American man who was the first recorded case of the virus in Africa's most populous country. That raised alarm that Ebola, which looked on the verge of being contained in the commercial capital, Lagos, may flare up elsewhere.

So another doc died. This one from treating a person who came into contact with Patrick Sawyer. Any doctor who decides to go help the cause must be prepared to join the list of dead doctors. And not a sudden death. A painful, gruesome, hideous death. How many doctors worldwide are just itching to fly to Africa to fight the good fight? Less and less, I imagine.

Also from your second link, and it may have been mentioned in this thread already, but it was new to me. Another country in Africa... a 'transport hub' and 'centre for aid agencies.' Great. Just Great.

Senegal, a transport hub and centre for aid agencies, became the fifth African nation to confirm a case of Ebola on Friday, a 21-year-old Guinean student who had evaded surveillance in his homeland and arrived in Dakar.

a reply to: soficrow

Sophicrow,
Just happened to read the first comment on your second link from this morning. Geez, what do you make of this? The person has made this claim and has provided his name AND the name of his client. This does not seem like anonymous spam:

I am Mr. Donald Ickpower, a Lawyer by profession. I am the personal attorney to Dr. H Amburger, a national of your country living in Canada, who used to work with Skydome Drugs who herein after that shall be referred to as my client.

On the 21st of April 2014, my client became the owner of 15 million doses of the Ebola antriviral. Since then I have made several enquiries to your government to locate anyone to whom my client could ship this to. This has proved unsuccessful. I came to know about you through an enquiry I was making in the internet which is why I have decided to contact you, in order to assist in bringing his valuable drug to the Sick and Injured Residents of your country. I seek your consent to present you as the the representative of the Nigerian government to direct the Procees in the number of 7.5 million doses ( valued at US$15.5 Million Dollars) into your hands for you to use as needed

I have all necessary legal documents that can be used to track the shipment and I require is your honest co-operation to enable us see this business through. I guarantee that this will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that will protect you from any breach of the law.

Please get in touch with me by email and send to me you

Name
Address
Bank ifo icluding transit num
Age
Occupation
Home phone
Office phone

so as that it will enable us discuss further about the details of this transaction.

Best regards,
Mr. D Ickpower

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: soficrow

a man was exposed to Ebola in Sierra Leone, got sick in Germany, went to the ER, told them he had been exposed to Ebola, requested the blood test, and was left in the public waiting room for hours before he was seen by a doctor. Helps us understand why West Africans don't trust hospitals. [HINT: It's not just superstition.] ...In a similar vein, a man died in an ER waiting room, in his wheelchair after waiting 34 hours for attention in a Winnipeg Hospital. ....What if he'd had Ebola?

In both scenarios, absolutely nothing is scary unless the others in the waiting room were touching the guy and while he was bleeding, crapping, or vomiting all over the place.

You can't get Ebola by looking at someone, by being in the same room as someone, or being next to someone who died from Ebola.

Again...this is just pure fear mongering...absolutely nothing was done wrong in that situation.

If he is symptomatic- if he has fever, his sweaty palm that gains entrance to the emergency room, that uses the pen he signs in with, even the chair he sits in (which harbors the virus up to 7 days) ... all of these 'deposits' lay wait for subsequent patients to make a 'withdrawal' from the Ebola account, compounded daily.

a reply to: Morningglory

Seems infected medical staff in Africa exposed co-workers before they were at the vomiting/crapping their pants stage. They couldn't have continued working if they were vomiting all over the place. I imagine fever was their only symptom at that stage.

This is an important point that everyone needs to understand.

I have a colloidal silver generator, and it is one of the best natural remedies for viruses and bacterial infections. Colloidal silver is also great as a preventative. I even use it to clean my sinuses, nothing else works! Combine that with high doses of ester-C (vitamin C in a form that is easy on the stomach) and a few other supplies you need to have on hand for this or any other outbreak or pandemic. Here is a list of ways to defeat the dreaded Ebola virus: What to Do for Ebola

a reply to: new_here

Can't take the time to track back and look for the link, bit off the top, it sounds like a nasty satirical spoof - modeled after the email scams often sourced from Nigeria.

a reply to: new_here

I am absolutely horrified by the shortsighted mistaken assumptions inherent in this statement, "Any doctor who decides to go help the cause must be prepared to join the list of dead doctors. "

Doctors Without Borders (MSF) has been fighting Ebola for decades and NOT ONE of their people has become infected. Probably because they're fully trained, take appropriate measures and don't try to cut corners - unlike other healthcare workers without adequate training.

fyi -

If we don't stop this epidemic in West Africa, it WILL go pandemic.

And the window is closing fast.

....Your campaign promoting non-support is forwarding a pandemic depopulation strategy. Interesting.

CDC: 'Window Is Closing' on Containing Ebola

At a press conference Tuesday, CDC director Tom Frieden warned that time is running out to contain West Africa’s Ebola outbreak.

Days after returning from West Africa, Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Thomas Frieden opened a press conference with a sobering admonition about the effort to contain the Ebola epidemic to West Africa: “the window is closing.”

In an impassioned call to action, he urged American doctors, nurses, and health care professionals to join Africa in its fight. “This isn’t just the countries’ problem,” he said. “It’s a global problem.” With vivid detail, Frieden painted a gruesome picture of overcrowded isolation centers in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Guinea, where health care workers are struggling to keep up with “basic care.” He mentioned deficiencies not only in the number of doctors, nurses, and health managers available, but the protective gear needed to keep them safe. Without an immediate change in the current landscape, he said, the worst is yet to come. “The level of outbreak is beyond anything we’ve seen—or even imagined,” Frieden said.

At one particular 35-bed facility, Frieden described the chilling sight of more than three-dozen Ebola patients without beds, left with no other place to fight their infections but the floor. The health care workers, too, face “distressing” conditions. “Roasting hot” personal protective gear including robes, masks, boots, and goggles, make simply drawing an IV a near impossible task. “It is very difficult to move…sweats pours into goggles, [the health workers] see the enormous need but the great risk, too,” he said.

But even more alarming than the disturbing images, was the lack of outside support. “The most upsetting thing I saw was what I didn’t see,” he said. “No data from countries where it’s spreading, no rapid response teams, no trucks, a lack of efficient management,” he said. “I could not possibly overstate the need for an urgent response.”

a reply to: soficrow

I am absolutely horrified by the shortsighted mistaken assumptions inherent in this statement, "Any doctor who decides to go help the cause must be prepared to join the list of dead doctors. "

Doctors Without Borders (MSF) has been fighting Ebola for decades and NOT ONE of their people has become infected. Probably because they're fully trained, take appropriate measures and don't try to cut corners - unlike other healthcare workers without adequate training.

fyi -
If we don't stop this epidemic in West Africa, it WILL go pandemic.


And the window is closing fast.



....Your campaign promoting non-support is forwarding a pandemic depopulation strategy. Interesting.

Take a chill pill. No where did I come close to campaigning for non-support!
There is an unprecidented number of doctors/health care workers infected or dead from Ebola. It is a fact. Doctors who sign up to go will face the same conditions-- short on protective gear, overworked, overwhelmed with cases. Everybody knows this by now, which is the very reason I made the statement I did. My statement horrifies you? Ok. It horrifies me as well that other doctors WILL be reluctant to risk contracting this, knowing the lack of gear and support.

My statement was horrifying for that reason, but hardly shortsighted or mistaken. Because doctors ARE on the list of casualties. And other doctors who COULD help, know this.

I was just pointing out the dire nature of that! Are we clear now?

a reply to: new_here

Take a chill pill.

Back atcha.

Those who react emotionally - and do not stop, think and critically evaluate - are subject to manipulation, and being used to promote agendas not their own.

Ebola: "Don't Help" Campaign Promotes Pandemic Depopulation Strategy

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: new_here

Take a chill pill.

Back atcha.

Those who react emotionally - and do not stop, think and critically evaluate - are subject to manipulation, and being used to promote agendas not their own.

Ebola: "Don't Help" Campaign Promotes Pandemic Depopulation Strategy

I clicked on your source, thinking it was an article. But it was another Ebola thread you just created. You sourced yourself? I have participated in your Ebola threads respectfully, and put a lot of time and thought in doing so. I want you to understand I do not appreciate the implication in your reply to me (quoted above) targeting my critical thinking among other things.

a reply to: new_here

The situation is dire. Urgent. Desperate - and incredibly dangerous to the rest of the world. If we don't stop the Ebola epidemic in West Africa, it WILL go pandemic. It WILL muate and evolve to become truly airborne, and incredibly easy to transmit. But it's not really airborne now, and it's not yet fully transmissible.

Much about Ebola -and this epidemic- is scary as hell and truly horrifying. BUT - if we do not put the scary and horrifying facts into the real context, we risk turning ourselves into fear-mongerers, and supporting more scary and horrifying agendas. Two very real agendas come to mind: The first says it's possible and desirable to quarantine West Africa, then go in after the dust settles to rape and pillage (it's neither desirable nor possible); the second wants an Ebola Pandemic to drastically reduce the world's population.

Meanwhile, West Africa NEEDS help - manpower, equipment, medical supplies, food, water. Proper infection control practices prevent Ebola infection - scaring the poop out of everyone able to help serves no one except those into genocide and global population reduction.

....Point being: We all need to take responsibility for the effects of our actions. Which means we also need to consider the possible effects before we take action.





ETA PS. Your contributions are GREAT - and I most always star your posts. My crit isn't personal - just focused on the issue (to help or not to help).

PPS. This is a lecture I keep giving myself too: "We all need to take responsibility for the effects of our actions. Which means we also need to consider the possible effects before we take action."

originally posted by: new_here

Name
Address
Bank ifo icluding transit num
Age
Occupation
Home phone
Office phone

so as that it will enable us discuss further about the details of this transaction.

Best regards,
Mr. D Ickpower

I'm going to have to say this is a joke and/or scam. :/

originally posted by: MDpvc

originally posted by: new_here

Name
Address
Bank ifo icluding transit num
Age
Occupation
Home phone
Office phone

so as that it will enable us discuss further about the details of this transaction.

Best regards,
Mr. D Ickpower

I'm going to have to say this is a joke and/or scam. :/

Haha (well, sad haha) I missed that. Nice catch. Too bad, was hoping the post was genuine. oh well.

a reply to: new_here

Looks like the military-industrial complex won this round - and there probably won't be another one. The epidemic will spread unhindered now, and go pandemic. Liberia just reported another huge jump in cases and deaths, but the WHO isn't posting figures any more. .....West Africa needs (but isn't getting): several thousand medical personnel; motorcycles, ambulances and other vehicles available to transport patients to medical facilities; more protective equipment, gloves and gowns; hazard pay and other incentives for local workers; and help to protect local economies from collapse.

A senior U.S. official rebutted a call from global aid organization Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) for wealthy nations to deploy specialized biological disaster response teams to the region. ….

"I don't think at this point deploying biological incident response teams is exactly what's needed," said Gayle Smith, Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Development and Democracy on the National Security Council.

She said the U.S. government was focusing on rapidly increasing the number of Ebola treatment centers in affected countries, providing protective equipment, and training local staff. "We will see a considerable ramp-up in the coming days and weeks. If we find it is still moving out of control, we will look at other options," Smith told a conference call.

Fear hampers recruitment of volunteers in Ebola battle: WHO

a reply to: soficrow

She said the U.S. government was focusing on rapidly increasing the number of Ebola treatment centers in affected countries, providing protective equipment, and training local staff. "We will see a considerable ramp-up in the coming days and weeks. If we find it is still moving out of control, we will look at other options," Smith told a conference call.

This (in bold) is the essential #1 must-have before all others, in order to begin to quell the spread of this. Sending people to help without adequate protection will only spread this thing further, since their direct contact with infected patients makes them the most susceptible to contracting, incubating, and spreading this disease.

I cannot for the life of me understand how this planet can have a shortage of gloves, suits, masks, etc. Ramp up production already. Do you not find this whole idea of a shortage a little hard to swallow, even if they ARE disposable? They speak of the low number of personnel to deal with this, so why, in this industrial age, can we not crank out enough to clothe them properly?

In any case... unprotected doctors and nurses will only compound the problem. Must have protective gear... pronto! Step #2: Doctors & nurses.

The epidemic will spread unhindered now, and go pandemic.

This is something you have said before, and it is the great unknown (unless you are God.) This statement would go over better with "probably" added in. Just trying to be helpful, b/c I've seen members dismiss an entire post based on one un-provable statement. I do understand you firmly believe this pandemic will come to pass, but others will say the future has yet to be written. I hope you take that in the spirit it was intended!

a reply to: new_here

All true and thank you. S& ....Thing is though, if she had agreed to deploy specialized biological response teams, they WOULD come fully protected. If every nation sent their teams, they would ALL come with the right gear. ....The idea that "training local staff" will do the trick is laughable.

[Will get back to being careful not to overstate the case.]

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: new_here

All true and thank you. S&

....Thing is though, if she had agreed to deploy specialized biological response teams, they WOULD come fully protected. If every nation sent their teams, they would ALL come with the right gear.

Indeed, and were she-- and other world leaders-- truly serious about this, they would have responded in kind the moment the WHO said 'uh-oh' the first time. But no, they leave it up to volunteer organizations to carry the burden of a response.

We really do have worthless world leaders.

I understand you're upset about the U.S. not sending units to help over in Africa, sofi, but I keep reading that it "will go pandemic" and "will mutate to be true airborne". How can you be so certain about this? Perhaps I am missing something here, do you know exactly how it plans on mutating, how fast, and where it will spread next?

I don't mean to come off as attacking you with this question, I would just like to know where this certainty comes from.

originally posted by: clenz
I understand you're upset about the U.S. not sending units to help over in Africa, sofi,

You misunderstand. I am extremely concerned that the US "rebutted" the need for specialized biological response teams (saying it wasn't valid). In doing so, and doing it immediately, the US set a global precedent, ensuring that other wealthy nations would follow suit and echo their response.

I keep reading that it "will go pandemic" and "will mutate to be true airborne". How can you be so certain about this?

The clear and present dangers are that Ebola will go pandemic and mutate to become efficiently airborne. In addition, the mutations represent the danger that diagnostic tests, treatments and vaccines might be rendered obsolete before they even get to the production line. These dangers increase with accelerating spread and increased mutation rate. Currently, the epidemic is described by medical experts as follows:

* Accelerating.
* Spiraling out of control.
* Not under control anywhere.
* The window for getting it under control is closing.
* The longer the epidemic goes uncontained, the more likely the virus will mutate and evolve.
* Ebola already may be airborne in monkeys - if the virus mutates to be airborne in humans, it will ravage the globe.

Genomic surveillance elucidates Ebola virus origin and transmission during the 2014 outbreak

....We observed a rapid accumulation of interhost and intrahost genetic variation, allowing us to characterize patterns of viral transmission over the initial weeks of the epidemic. This West African variant likely diverged from Middle African lineages ~2004, crossed from Guinea to Sierra Leone in May 2014, and has exhibited sustained human-to-human transmission subsequently, with no evidence of additional zoonotic sources. Since many of the mutations alter protein sequences and other biologically meaningful targets, they should be monitored for impact on diagnostics, vaccines, and therapies critical to outbreak response.

CDC Director on Ebola Outbreak: “It’s going to get even worse”

(CNN) — The Ebola outbreak in West Africa is much worse than official figures show, and other countries are unintentionally making it harder to control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Tom Frieden told CNN Tuesday.

“We’ve seen outbreaks of Ebola before. This is the first epidemic spreading widely through many countries and it is spiraling out of control,” said Frieden, who recently returned from a trip to the region. “It’s bad now, much worse than the numbers show. It’s going to get even worse in the very near future.”

Global health officials warn that window for bringing Ebola under control is closing fast

Leading international health officials said Tuesday that the Ebola epidemic in West Africa is accelerating and the window for getting it under control is closing.

“Six months into the worst Ebola epidemic in history, the world is losing the battle to contain it,” Joanne Liu, international president of medical charity Doctors Without Borders, said in a briefing at the United Nations. She faulted world leaders for failing to recognize the severity of the crisis sooner and said charities and West African governments alone do not have the capacity to stem the outbreak.

….“There is a window of opportunity to tamp this down, but that window is closing,” Frieden said. “We need action now to scale up, and we need to scale up to massive levels . . . I cannot overstate the need for an urgent response,” he said.

…. “[Doctors Without Borders] has been ringing alarm bells for months, but the response has been too late, too little.”

….Health officials said the outbreak can be contained and order restored in West Africa — but only if the international community acts quickly and cooperatively.

“We have no other option but to act urgently,” said Margaret Chan, director general of WHO. She called for increased help from governments and aid groups. “The whole world is responsible and accountable to bring the Ebola threat under control.”

…….“Only by battling the epidemic at its roots can we stem it,” she said. “We cannot cut off the affected countries and hope this epidemic will simply burn out. To put out this fire, we must run into the burning building.”

World is ‘losing the battle’ against Ebola, warns aid group

Médecins Sans Frontières President Joanne Liu says her organization is completely overwhelmed.

MSF President Joanne Liu said her organization is completely overwhelmed as it treats Ebola patients in four West African countries. She called on countries with biological disaster response capacity to contribute civilian and military medical personnel.

“Six months into the worse Ebola epidemic in history, the world is losing the battle to contain it,” Liu said at a United Nations forum on the outbreak. “Ebola treatment centres are reduced to places where people go to die alone....”

Ebola response lethally inadequate, says MSF

A global military intervention is needed to curb the largest ever Ebola outbreak, according to the medical charity Medecins Sans Frontieres.

In a damning criticism of world leaders, it says the global response has so far been "lethally inadequate".

The charity said countries were turning their back on West Africa and merely reducing the risk of Ebola arriving on their shores.

In a speech to the United Nations, the international president of MSF, Dr Joanne Liu, said repeated calls for help had been ignored.

She said: "Six months into the worst Ebola epidemic in history, the world is losing the battle to contain it. ….

......Answer your questions?