What would happen if Putin.......

a reply to: pavil

Just for the fact, that you asked this question and put forward the premesis that Russia has an empirical expansionist policies. I must conclude, or ask you, if you're retarded.

Not knowing history, is one thing ... but to blatantly believe movies and rhetoric around, that are proposed as history by charlatans, and in the face of everything you can see with your own eyes. 70 years ago, Russia won WWII. Of course, to you ... the US won, because it's a feature film made by Hollywood, and the leader role by John Wayne. No, that's the movies ... reality is, Russia won. And the only reason, US/GB and other had presence in Germany, is because Germany surrendered, when the Russians entered. If Russia, had ever had an "expansionist" policy, it would have taken Germany and not even listened to US about the issue. But when Germany surrendered, Russians stopped their march. Russians even AGREED to share Germany with the Allies.

That's HISTORIC ... because US and British troops, certainly didn't stop THEIR MARCH, when Germany surrendered.

Russia, trusted the west, only to be faced with demonization by the west. Because in reality, the west was afraid of Russians because of WWII. This is what created the Soviet Union ... it really was never anything. The fear of Russia, has always been the fear against Communism. Which is the fear of "feudal" society, that the Rich will no longer be rich, but their riches taken away from them and given to the poor.

The nazis hated Communists, because Communists represented the MOB. The MOB, that took power from the Szar and beheaded him and his ilk

Are you a king, sir? Are you a descendant of leaches, rober barons, that robbed the poor so they could live their miserable lives, inside their little incest castles, sir? No? Then what is your problem with the Rule of the People ... you love to be a slave, who lives in a country whose senators may talk to you once a year, when they want your vote, but after that tell you to go skru yourself ... like Rome, Hellas, Europe and the United States? You think the ruling class is going to let you marry into the family? Do you think, that YOUR LIFE, is a Hollywood feature film, good sir?

You have no reason, to hate communism ... in fact, as a common man, you have all the reasons to love it. Or is your brain capacity too small, to understand the parameters.

Now, what about Russias expansionism? If Russia really had the "intent" of expanding and taking over other countries ... don't you think they'd need at least ONE aircraft carrier to support troops on foreign soil? Oh my goodness, they don't even have a single one ... oh good sir, you just gotta tell Putin ... he's probably too stupid to realize, that for his EXPANSION POLICIES, he really needs, at least ONE aircraft carrier. Oh my, this won't do.

But hey, they've invaded Ukraine ... right? really?! Where were the Russians during the Soviet Union ... in China? maybe they were on a field trip to the moon, and never were in Ukraine then.

But, good sir, didn't Russia defeat Ukraine back in the 16th century, after which Ukraine was a part of Russia ... oh good sir, certainly you must have read history and know of these evil Russians, called Evil Ivan, and Peter the Great.

So, reality is ... Russians are leaving Ukraine ... not invading it. They're leaving the Balkans. They're leaving the Baltics .... the RUSSIANS ARE LEAVING!

Wait a minute ... did I say LEAVING ... no no, I meant COMING ... they've been COMING for the past 70 years. What's wrong with Putin, didn't he get the MEMO!?!?!

The military stragedy, played by Russia in the Ukraine ... is a bad tactic. And certainly not a tactic played by a Nuclear Superpower, capable of inhialiting the entire world.

Do you think, a Nuclear Super Power like the Russian Federation ... with heart and mind of expanding all over the world, and take it over ... a mighty empire. Do you, good sir, think they have to consult YOU. Do you perhaps think YOU could stop them from taking over Ukraine. Maybe Putin is SCARED of YOU. Or, maybe ... maybe he's scared of ME? hmmm, I sure am an ugly piece of crap ... that I know.

No, hardly ... the fact is, Russia is backing off. But hundreds of thousands of refugees, and tens of thousands of Russian casualties, would in fact enrage any nation to the point of war. So, Russia has INVADED Ukraine, with massive vehicles with food supplies... and left. With 10 or maybe even 20 paratroopers ... oh, those MIGHTY RUSSIANS. They're gonna take over Ukraine ... no, they're going to take OVER THE WORLD, with 20 paratroopers ... and an AID CONVOY. That Russian AID convoy ... it's DEADLY.

Good sir, Russia is not expanding it's declining ... and anyone who really listens to this endless "THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING" rhetoric, is at least half-retarded. 70 years, of this rhetoric has elapsed ... and not even a single question of it's legitimacy. PHEW.

The truth is, that western media isn't even reporting about casualites in Ukraine, because those casualties to this minute have been mostly Russians, and Russian friendly rebels. You think its ok, to murder Russian civilians ... and then deliverately downgrade those casualties as "collateral damage".

Why? Because they're Russians ... do Russians have any LESS right to live, than you or I? Even to the point, where Holland sends a whole plane full of civilians into a war zone, and Hollands Shell just happens to have gas deal with the Ukranians, where those very same gas mines are in rebel territory?

Coincidence? there is no such thing.

a reply to: Nikola014

Do you wish to live under Russian rule?

It's a fair question given your political leanings and your location.

originally posted by: Whereismypassword
Last 14 years the west with Anglo American help has killed a vast amount of civilians in wars
Care to tell me how many Russia has killed in its wars?

Russia is not squeaky clean and people who think so are victims of a blinkered worldview and/or too much RT.com.

For example, the South Ossetia War (Georgia) was an act of Russian aggression. The War of Transnistria is often forgotten, but was also a Russian power play. There was Russian interference in the civil war in Tajikistan. The First and Second Chechnya wars which were particularly brutal, noting the first war in Chechnya killed off 100,000 Chechens. Oh, ah and there's Ukraine - the annexation of Crimea and the alleged direct support for the separatists. I am sure I could go on, but you get the point.

To the OP. Putin's elimination would add complications and be detrimental. For all Putin's flaws, he's a known operator.

Regards

a reply to: Nikola014

If people here have a problem with Putin for leading a country the way he does, then, when are people on the west going to overthrow the people that rule them, the people that had killed millions of innocent people? When are the western people going to stop what they have been doing since the end of the WW2?

So in your world letting Russia destroy a sovereign nation on false pretenses is just fine?

So now if Russia would quit trying to rekindle the old Soviet Union by invading it's former members that might actually happen, but I doubt Russia will ever stop.

So then how many casualties have come from the Russians invasion of Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia, and now Ukraine?

But yet nobody on the pro Russian side will discuss these and the casualties left behind because of these conflicts...why?

Why are you worried what's going on Russia, when I can guarantee you, people on the west have much bigger problems. Why don't you worry about your country and "humanitarian" actions that it takes everytime they dislike some leader?

Because Russia doesn't have the right to do as they please, and if they aren't stopped from taking over sovereign nations who is next...maybe your country is next and that would be okay?

And what has Russia done in the last half century...that's right they invade other countries under false pretenses.

Czechoslovakia
Afghanistan
Chechnya
Georgia
Ukraine

But hey the US is the only bad guys in the world...Amazing mindset you have.

a reply to: victor7

Russian involvement in Ukraine is based on STRATEGIC REACTION TO A VITAL ISSUE.

When did a lie become a vital Issue?

Wait haven't you said that Russia is not involved in Ukraine, but now you are saying they are...so which is it are they or aren't they?

And their reason for going into Ukraine was because they were protecting the Russian speaking people, yet there was nothing for them to be protected from, as it was all a lie to invade.

If the Russian military or Kremlin core had difference in opinions with Putin on such issues, it would have already shown via public statements and media interviews etc.

And yet RUssia thought it better to invade, and yet you don't condemn Putin for these actions...astonishing.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Do you see how hypocrite you are?

So in your world letting Russia destroy a sovereign nation on false pretenses is just fine?

So now if Russia would quit trying to rekindle the old Soviet Union by invading it's former members that might actually happen, but I doubt Russia will ever stop

Such lies. Russia isn't doing anything to destroy Ukraine, Kiev is doing that. Russia is not trying to rebuild Soviet Union, do I have to say it every single time?
Stop pushing false information as facts.

So then how many casualties have come from the Russians invasion of Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia, and now Ukraine?

But yet nobody on the pro Russian side will discuss these and the casualties left behind because of these conflicts...why?

What are you talking about?
When Russia took Crimea, not ONE single person died. Why don't you say that Russia attacked Georgia because they had been doing attacks on Russian citizens there? You don't feel that's an important information?

Afghanistan, Chechnya okay, casualties are numbered in a couple thousands. Again, much worst things had been done by your precious innocent west.

Because Russia doesn't have the right to do as they please, and if they aren't stopped from taking over sovereign nations who is next...maybe your country is next and that would be okay?

Russia can't do what Russia wants, but west can? Double standards or hypocrisy, I can't tell for sure.

Plus, you are forgetting the fact that my country had been destroyed by the west...Same what you did with Libya.

I am not saying that the US is the only bad guys, but you can't deny the the west has done much worst things than Russia and North Korea will ever ever do. Facts.

I'ma reply to: bjarneorn

Thanks, bjarn......I needed a good laugh to start the morning. You do know the motto of this place right? Lay off the personalisation of your comments, it makes you look bad.

a reply to: Nikola014

Afghanistan, Chechnya okay, casualties are numbered in a couple thousands. Again, much worst things had been done by your precious innocent west.

A couple thousand? The wars in Chechniya alone resulted in 150,000 to 160,00 dead. And don't forget, Putin sacrificed 200 innocent Russian citizens in a single "anti-terror" operation in Moscow.

originally posted by: pavil

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: pavil

I cant believe this "don't mess with a nuclear Russia" comment. What is this 1958 or some sh*t. What a stupid and irresponsible to say this day and age. What he going to do? Fire some nukes off if anyone messes with him? Talk about a terrorist.

Huh? Where did I say ANYTHING like that? Stop trying to go personal and stick to debating points. I know honest debate and dissent are in short supply in Russia nowadays, but try please.

Are you proud of how Russia is acting towards it's neighbors? To me, they are being the bully of smaller kids. Tell me how Russia's actions make its neighbors feel?

If things progress down this path, it WILL lead to a new Cold War and arms race. Just what both sides need right?

Dude I was talking about Putin. You just misunderstood me.

As far as cold war and arms race, as long as Russia remained in possession of so many nukes, it was always a possibility and really a probability that they would use them as a threat.

Guys you anti Russian posters in small amounts on this site are just liars repeating the lies you have been spun by the media and disinformation trolls on this site who personally think their petty little anti Putin tirade is going to do anything

To the liars who keep mentioning Russia invaded Georgia,the BBC investigated this conflict and found Georgia was responsible for shelling Russian civilians and Russia could have steam rolled the whole country but their forces went in to repel the opposition back

The west has far more blood on its hands and has expanded it's influence far further than Russia has,how you can ignore reality and say Russia is doing the opposite of what it is?

Oh of course Putin slaughtered hundreds of his own civilians in that botched rescue attempt:-/ you guys are pathetic

Carry on,it is amusing

a reply to: Whereismypassword Does Putin do anything you disagree with? This is a serious question. Tell me something of importance that you disagree with him on.

a reply to: Nikola014

Your country was destroyed by the west huh? The russians also participated in strikes in serbia if i remember.your countries leadership brought that down on you and your country deserved it for ethnic cleansing.

a reply to: Whereismypassword

Oh of course Putin slaughtered hundreds of his own civilians in that botched rescue attempt:-/ you guys are pathetic

Carry on,it is amusing

You find slaughtering your own civilians amusing? No wonder you like Putin.

a reply to: Nikola014

Actually Putin IS a killer. It is my personal belief that he sanctioned the death of the spy in London who got radiation poisoning after having a meal in a trendy Japanese restaurant in London. The use of radioactive materials like that must have been given the go ahead by Putin. And what about the journalists over the years who have been bumped off. Ok he did not personally pull the trigger but he has their blood on his hands.

I am sure if enough people in Russia had access to a free press they would be horrified with what is really going on and there would be mass protests inside Russia right now. There are a few lone voices of dissent but those lone voices are quickly removed and locked away just like in the old Soviet Union days. However what Putin will be unable to hide is this. The more Russian troops are poured into Ukraine the more body bags will be sent back home to Russia. Then the families of those soldiers will see the truth of what is happening and that is when the real mass protests will start. This in turn will lead to the downfall of Putin as his lies and deceit will be clear for all to see. Putin stole the revolution and once people figure that one out, Putin will be forced to leave office at best. And at worst we will see some sort of coup possibly by the Armed Forces take place. In essence Russia is a tinderbox ready to explode.

a reply to: yuppa

That is another lie, but I'm not surprised, because many people here will make up things just to prove a point. No, Russia did not participated in illegal bombing of my former country. Notice how I used the word illegal, because that is exactly what that bombing was. Saying that a whole country deserved something based on actions of a few, is just beyond reasonable . What did little kids, older women, men, young people, do to deserve to die? You ever stopped for a minute and thought about that? Plus, you've got no idea what really happened in Yugoslavia, you just say things that CNN,BBC reported.
Go on mate, check your daily dose of fake news and come back with new fresh information.

@Wirral Bagpuss

Actually Putin IS a killer. It is my personal belief that he sanctioned the death of the spy in London who got radiation poisoning after having a meal in a trendy Japanese restaurant in London. The use of radioactive materials like that must have been given the go ahead by Putin. And what about the journalists over the years who have been bumped off. Ok he did not personally pull the trigger but he has their blood on his hands.

Just because it is your personal belief, does it make it correct?
Yes i agree he is a killer. But so is every president that ever went into a war. What happened to JFK man? My point is, much worst things has happened in the west. I am not saying in any way that some bad stuff didn't happened in Russia also and still does, but it's not as bad as some people are trying to present it to be. Much worst things had been done by the west. You've got no idea how much are you being fed up by your media's about Russia. I urge you all to go and visit it before making untrue assumptions.

That's my point.

I will ask one last time. Do you people have any proofs that Russian troops are currently in the Ukraine? And I don't mean you giving me the links of BBC,CNN because they are just reporting of what's Kiev saying. I mean actual proof. No? I thought so.

a reply to: Nikola014

What would constitute proof to you, since western media and Ukrainian reports are no good for you. Does Putin himself have to say it? Most of the region in question in Ukraine is of Russian ethnicity (look up the reason why that is), they aren't going to say much.

a reply to: pavil

A picture would do. Or a video. You don't find it strange that an army of a thousand soldiers + vehicles can pass unnoticed for this long since they first crossed the border? What about the Ukrainian border police? Don't you think at the times like this, they would sent reinforcement so something like this doesn't happen? All these things just makes me think, this is just a justification for any future potential move by NATO/Ukraine.

Because we have none, Kiev's claiming cannot be taken for facts, and I do not know why people use it as such.

a reply to: Nikola014

Do you see how hypocrite you are?

And exactly what was it that makes me a hypocrite, as I haven't change in what my feelings are on the conflict in Ukraine but feel free to show me...

When Russia took Crimea, not ONE single person died.

I didn't say anything about Crimea, and I was replying to the comment you posted...

Afghanistan, Chechnya okay, casualties are numbered in a couple thousands.

Really?

Soviet Forces:
14,453 Killed (total)
9,500 killed in combat[17]
4,000 died from wounds[17]
1,000 died from disease and accidents[17]
53,753 Wounded[17]
265 Missing[18]
Afghan Forces:
18,000 killed[19]
Mujahideen:
75,000–90,000 killed, 75,000+ wounded (tentative estimate)[20]
Pakistan: 300+ killed
1 F-16 fighter jet shot down[21]
Iran: 2 AH-1J helis shot down
unknown killed[22]

and civilians...

The decade-long war resulted in the death of 850,000–1.5 million civilians[23][24] as well as causing millions of Afghans to flee the country, mostly to Pakistan and Iran.

en.wikipedia.org...

Now Chechnya...

3,675 soldiers,[5][6][7][8]
2,364–2,572 Interior ministry troops,[9][10][11][12][13][14]
1,072 Chechen police officers[15][16]
and 106 FSB and GRU operatives killed[17]
Total killed: 7,217–7,425* 14,113 militants killed (1999–2002)[18]
2,186 militants killed (2003–2009)[19]
Total killed: 16,299

and civilians...

Estimate up to 25,000 killed and up to 5,000 "disappeared" in Chechnya (AI estimate),[20]
Estimate total number of casualties 80,000 killed in Chechnya (GfbV estimate),[21]
More in neighbouring regions,
More than 600 killed during attacks in Russia proper.

en.wikipedia.org...

You may want to revise those numbers a little bit.

Russia can't do what Russia wants, but west can? Double standards or hypocrisy, I can't tell for sure.

Have I ever stated that the US can do as they please, because I can guarantee I haven't.

Good try though.

Plus, you are forgetting the fact that my country had been destroyed by the west...Same what you did with Libya.

What makes you think I agree with what NATO did in your country?

As for Libya...

However, for decades prior to the 2011 Libyan civil war, the countries were enemies and engaged each other in several military skirmishes. The Libyan government of Muammar Gaddafi funded terror operations against the United States, most notably the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing, to which the United States retaliated by bombing Libya, and the 1988 Lockerbie bombing.

en.wikipedia.org...

When you fund terrorism against the US you will pay the price...That's a fact.

I am not saying that the US is the only bad guys, but you can't deny the the west has done much worst things than Russia and North Korea will ever ever do. Facts.

Fact...

North Korea.

North Koreans sent to prison camps and detention centers are often subjected to torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. Many prisoners fall ill and die in custody or soon after release.
Tens of thousands of North Koreans, as well as nationals from other countries, have been abducted by the North Korean government.
North Korean family members of suspected dissidents have disappeared or been punished under the principle of "guilt by association."
Millions of people have experienced the worst hunger in a decade with women, children and the elderly being the most vulnerable. Many have been forced to scavenge for wild foods or accept food substitutes. The government has failed to seek adequate international assistance. In March of 2009, North Korea refused to accept any further food aid from the U.S.
Public executions, even for offenses not subject to the death penalty under domestic law. Death offenses include, "treason against the Fatherland," and "treason against the people".

www.amnestyusa.org...

Russia...

According to international human rights organizations as well as domestic press, violations of human rights in Russia[10] include widespread and systematic torture of persons in custody by police,[11][12] dedovshchina in Russian Army, neglect and cruelty in Russian orphanages,[13] violations of children's rights.[14] According to Amnesty International there is discrimination, racism, and murders of members of ethnic minorities.[15][16] Since 1992 at least 50 journalists have been killed across the country.[17]

en.wikipedia.org...

Well it looks as though you may be right, but in this case you aren't...Sorry.

a reply to: Nikola014

I will ask one last time. Do you people have any proofs that Russian troops are currently in the Ukraine?

Again what is this...

It was an "accident."

That was Moscow's official response to how a group of Russian paratroopers ended up in Ukraine. The soldiers -- apparently from a division based in Kostroma, a city on the Volga River north of Moscow -- were captured by Ukrainian forces, who posted videos of some of their interrogations online.

www.rferl.org...

Ten Russian paratroopers who were captured in Ukraine on Monday crossed the border “accidentally” during a routine frontier patrol, Russia’s ministry of defence claimed.

www.theprovince.com...

What more do you need to show that Russian troops are in fact in Ukraine?

When Russia admits to them being there that pretty much shows they are.

I thought so...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And exactly what was it that makes me a hypocrite, as I haven't change in what my feelings are on the conflict in Ukraine but feel free to show me..

You've double standards for the same things. That is what makes you hypocrite.

Saying that the war in Afghanistan was only Russian's fault and therefore trying to present like they alone are guilty of the death of so many people, is simply not true. A lot of countries contributed to the war to have that many casualties, including the US...what a shock right?

As for Chechnya, why don't you say how many of those people that got killed were Russian civilians and soldiers? DJW posted a link to it.

Have I ever stated that the US can do as they please, because I can guarantee I haven't.

Good try though.

It's not weather or not you stated something, it's your lack of reaction that makes me believe you approve of what the west has been doing and still does. Why don't you seek for justice for all those innocent people killed by the west in so many countries?

What makes you think I agree with what NATO did in your country?

Again, your lack of reaction towards that illegal bombing. The thing is you people say you allegedly don't approve the things done by the west, but yet you do no nothing to stop it.

When you fund terrorism against the US you will pay the price...That's a fact.

Those are just the claims from wikipedia. And even if Gaddafi did something like that alto i can't see a reason for him to do something like that, why did the US waited for 30 years? It makes zero sense, and you can't justify what has happened in Libya with something that might or might not be true 30 years ago.

Give us more "proof" from wikipedia...

What more do you need to show that Russian troops are in fact in Ukraine?

Picture of the army or a video. Till then, they are all just an empty claims from the Kiev trying to justify setting up a base in Eastern Ukraine by NATO. Remember my words when that happens.