NEWS: Hiroshima group plans peoples tribunal over US atomic bombings

Japanese anti-war campaigners said they planned a "people's tribunal" over the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki that could symbolically hold the United States responsible for war crimes.

If this group were truly "anti-war" and not just anti-U.S., they would presumably see fit to condemn the shockingly methodical and widespread war crimes committed by Japan in just about every country in the west Pacific.

Strangely, I am unable to find any evidence that they have done this. Perhaps someone has a link I couldn't find? Maybe they did it very quietly, or maybe they simply don't have a problem with unprovoked attacks, invasions, genocide and mass rapes committed by their countrymen -- just nuclear weapons.

Certainly, Japan's neighbors have not forgotten the heinous crimes committed against them by a nation that sometimes seems to conveniently forget about the warfare and atrocities it inflicted against millions of innocent civilians. I can only imagine their thoughts as they bear witness to this shameful display of unjustified chest-beating.

As it is, they are presenting themselves as nothing more than sanctimonious chauvinists promoting revisionism and ignorance, and defaming a loyal ally of Japan -- who not-so-coincidentally delivered them from servitude to a murderous imperial regime -- in the process.

The activists said the failure to pursue criminal charges over the bombings in the final days of World War II led to the expansion of nuclear weapons and further wars, such as those seen in Afghanistan and Iraq.

They have exactly zero moral authority to make the claims they are making, and insultingly ridiculous statements like this one prove it. They are, however, making it eminently clear by their actions and fallacious, foregone conclusions like these that they do not intend to impartially examine the circumstances surrounding the bombings.

"Anti-war"? It is precisely this sort of bogus, self-serving propaganda that will more likely than not lead Japan into its next war. Whitewashing the truth about the Pacific War will aid only to pave the way for the next one.

"But our aim is to spur movement towards abolishing nuclear weapons," [Toshiyuki Tanaka] said.

Self-discrediting stunts like these will do nothing to affect the ongoing worldwide nuclear arms race, and these "campaigners" know it. This has nothing to do with nuclear disarmament, but everything to do with seeking to undermine the security of the United States and defaming the actions of people that charlatans like Toshiyuki Tanaka are unfit to kiss the feet of.

These people are not moral crusaders seeking justice, they are merely self-inflated, dishonest posers holding a pathetic mock trial to serve as a memorial to their ignorance and false piety.

I have nothing but the most profound and unvarnished contempt for their fiendish slander and the dishonor they bring to the memories of the victims of the Pacific War -- especially to those who died at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I might as well post this link again...

www.thenausea.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Japan, as a Constitutional Monarchy, could only enter into a peace agreement with the unanimous support of the Japanese cabinet, and this cabinet was dominated by militarists from the Japanese Imperial Army and the Japanese Imperial Navy, all of whom were initially opposed to any peace deal.

Nearly 200,000 Japanese and 12,000 American troops were killed in the most bloody battle of the Pacific theater, just 8 weeks before Japan�s final surrender.

the Japanese Imperial Army ordered its ill supplied and weakened forces in Manchuria to fight to the last man, an order which it carried out.

as a result of the war, noncombatants were dying throughout Asia at a rate of ~200,000 per month

[on the topic of an order given]The order dealt with the disposal and execution of all Allied POW's, numbering over 100,000, if an invasion of the Japanese mainland took place.

i beg to differ.

To be fair the Japanese were put on trial for their warcrimes just like the germans were in Nuremberg. Not only were they put on trial many head honchos were executed for their crimes. The only ones that were spared were the ones that were useful to us like Gen. Ishii the man behind Japans Bioweapon program who was given immunity and transported to America to continue his research.

Originally posted by curme
Apparently, some of this board feel they have a better grasp on the subject than General Eisenhower.
[edit on 6-12-2004 by curme]

Perhaps, but you also realize that Eisenhower had a personal beef with MacArthur and felt he had been shut out of the Pacific Theatre by Mac's politicking against him. He also had issues with being left out of the Manhattan Project research so of course he will bag on any use that makes others look bad. Politics goes both ways and both sides have thier reasons for what they say.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I might as well post this link again...
www.thenausea.com...

Bandit,

While the web site does a good job of deamonizing the decison to drop the bomb, it does leave out quite a bit IMHO. BTW, no one on this thread had trivialized the deaths at both cities, however, looking at the big picture of the war to that point really put it into context.

Some points:
1) It speaks of attacking military targets versus civilian. It uses Pearl Harbor as its main point: However, City busting was a accepted wr tactic of the time. Not only did they lack the ability to strike point targets with any sort of presicion, destroying an enemys ability to make war was how wars were faught to that point in history. Warfare has evolved since then but that was how it was fought. Look at London during the Blitz, no really a military target, Dresden, Tokyo etc etc

2) It seems to me that the fundemental opposition to the bombing is nopt that the cities were destroyed. But the method used to do them It is well known that both cities had been on LeMays short list for his strategic bombing campaign. The advent of the B-29 coupled with the close proximity of airfields on Saipan and Iwo Jima guarranteed full bomb loads and we all saw what multiple B-29 loaded with incedriary bombs did to Tokyo.

3) Maybe some elements wanted to surrender, but the military ones did not and by historical account they alone had the ear and access to the Emperor who went with what he was told information wise. Little is known about how and what was relayed to the Emperor.

4) The resistance seen on Iwo Jima and Saipan was fanatical. It was resonable to expect that the mainland would be no different.

I think the atomic bombs were the best option. I would rather that the Japanese suffered collateral damage then have had high allied casualties if the allies had made landings on the home Islands. The Japanese have forgotten about there treatment of civilians & POWs .
As for the trial what a pointless waste of time there is only one defendant still alive. Why should Paul Tibbets have put up with a show trial?

Originally posted by TheBandit795
I might as well post this link again...

www.thenausea.com...

Then I suppose it's appropriate to post a few links that show the context of what happened, because the U.S. didn't just wake up one morning and decide out of the blue to bomb two Japanese cities for the hell of it. Turns out there was some background to the story.

In fact, America had a lot to deal with at the time, what with having been fighting a war in almost every nation on the face of the earth for the past four years and all. Lest we forget, the policies of our enemies in WWII were �battle to the death� in the case of both Germany and Japan, both of whom also engaged in genocide on top of countless other crimes committed against tens of millions of people.

Hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians were killed instantly and many more of them died painfully over many years. The horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki are undeniable.

So what could possibly justify such a brutal action? Of course, there are many legitimate moral, political and philosophical questions that can be asked. But after four years of intense warfare, and facing an entrenched enemy that had repeatedly demonstrated a desire to die before surrendering -- by fighting to the death and taking tens of thousands of U.S. soldiers, sailors and Marines with them, options were limited and none of them were pleasant.

At the time of the bombings, the U.S. had lost about half a million people to WWII. Who here wishes to argue that not enough Americans died in that war? How many more should have died? Another half a million? How many Americans must die to satisfy our critics? Please, tell us how many of us must die.

How can anyone here have the audacity to question the judgment of a nation that had just fought for its survival against overwhelming odds in a world war? I cannot be the only one who sees the shocking error of doing this and is disgusted by it. Such sophistry is only possible under the false protection of ignorance of what actually happened. In light of that, some education is in order.

Do we want to talk about war crimes? Okay, fine. Here's the kind of people America's leaders were up against:

WARNING: Most of these sites feature brutally graphic photographs, many taken proudly by Japanese soldiers. Don�t look if you can�t handle the ugly truth:

Japanese War Crimes

Japan's Crimes Against Humanity

Japan War Crimes

ChinaSite.com: Japanese War Crimes

WWW Memorial Hall of the Victims in the Nanjing Massacre

These are only the tip of the iceberg, and there�s a lot more out there. For example, this Google Search for �Japanese war crimes� returns over 600,000 results.

I am not claiming that Japanese war crimes necessarily justified the U.S. use of nuclear weapons. There were a lot of factors that went into that decision, most of them related to the war between the U.S. and Japan and unrelated to the war crimes

But to see my country slandered like this by the descendents of those who committed such vile acts against humanity is intolerable.


Author�s Note: I wrote this yesterday and decided not to post it, because I felt there was no point in driving the discussion in this direction. But as the saying goes, I didn�t fire the first shot, and today of all days, on the 63rd anniversary of the craven and cowardly attack by the Japanese on U.S. forces in Pearl Harbor, I find it impossible not to respond.

To promote the memories of the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki over the victims of the Japanese aggression which directly resulted in their deaths is, in my opinion, criminally immoral. Remaining silent in the face of it would be only slightly less immoral.

If you want to knock the U.S., fine. At least have the decency to admit that we are not the source of all evil. To do otherwise is to do evil.

Please, on this if on nothing else, I urge everyone following this discussion to Deny Ignorance!



[edit on 12/7/2004 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
...on the 63rd anniversary of the craven and cowardly attack by the Japanese on U.S. forces in Pearl Harbor, I find it impossible not to respond.

To promote the memories of the victims of Hiroshima and Nagasaki over the victims of the Japanese aggression which directly resulted in their deaths is, in my opinion, criminally immoral. Remaining silent in the face of it would be only slightly less immoral.

If you want to knock the U.S., fine. At least have the decency to admit that we are not the source of all evil. To do otherwise is to do evil.

Please, on this if on nothing else, I urge everyone following this discussion to Deny Ignorance!

and thats why you have that nice medal beautifully said, majic.

Originally posted by DrHoracid
The Germany were bad, the Jap's were worse.

I don't want to join this debate but I want to tell you, Dr. Horacid, that you shouldn't be calling the Japanese people "Japs". It's like calling African-Americans the n word.

[edit on 7-12-2004 by iceofspades]