U.K. raises terror threat level to 'severe'

a reply to: Briles1207

you just made me laugh so much i am crying. Your reply is soooooo #ing funny... star and flag to you and a bottle of wine for making me crease up so much im crying. I aint laught like that for ages...

a reply to: crostkev

As i mentioned the upcoming NATO Summit next week justifies the heightened state without a direct threat - it's a move in stance given just who is comming to visit.

Its maybe convenient to hang this on the back of something up front in the public eye as well - rather than referencing the event itself.

I do recall that during the Bilderberg Conference a couple of years ago the stance was raised as well? I know for a fact that no fly zones were declared - this was also the case during London 2012. Certainly we haven't had Typhoons moved in this time but I would guess RAF Valley has a couple of Noisy Neighbours parked on the apron by now. Fairford has tightened up and apparently the plane spotting community at Brize Norton have been told in no uncertain terms not to get in the way.

a reply to: Lipton

That is exactly why I asked the simple question, why can these people not be arrested directly off the flights which bring them home? That IS the way these people generally come and go from here when off about their nefarious business.

Furthermore, M.I.5 is an organisation whose entire task is to protect the country from espionage and terrorism. They employ tactical teams and have a place in the military heirarchy already and have done for years, as evidenced by the fact that the M.I. in its name stands for Military Intelligence. Also, our nations laws allow for deployment of Military Intelligence assets on our own soil, when a threat to it is identified as being present in our midst, so it is these people, and indeed Counter Terrorism Command (formerly Special Branch) who would ordinarily be deployed to deal with capturing these people.

I am against ESCALATION of police and security service powers, but M.I.5 and the CTC (Special Branch) have had powers of arrest, and the right to carry arms on our soil since God was a boy, and I have no problem with that at all. It is necessary, and members of both organisations have been responsible for preventing the destruction of this nation by various means over DECADES AND DECADES of sterling service.

That does not represent a change in the way things are done. Its entirely in keeping with the way of things.

The NCA (National Crime Agency) however, that is a crock of Americanised crap that I do not agree with the creation of, and is an entirely different issue altogether. These are basically coppers, with access to some of the same gear and weapons that SCO19, the firearms unit of the London Metropolitan police do. This includes sidearms, MP5A2SF carbines, remmington entry shotguns, and the like. We already have armed response units, and in my opinion, what with the law being what it is on gun ownership, the NCA being armed as they are able to be, is somewhat unnecessary.

a reply to: Silk
I posted this on another thread but since you bring it up

1)The special forces groups are the most effective force multiplier on the planet.
2)They have the biggest disruptor capability that can be inflicted of any organization in the world.
3)They are the most highly trained individuals you will ever have the privilege to meet, bar none.

22

a reply to: TrueBrit

I agree 100%. It's completely logical. The question is however how do you know someone was just away on a war-holiday fighting some kind of "holy war"? All the shiny medals inside their bags the received for their heroic deeds? The souvenirs and trinkets they brought from the battlefield? The minister's speech gave (me) the impression that the decision could be left in the hands of airport security...? So, as a British citizen, you go to a Middle-Eastern country to say your goodbyes to your ailing mother. On your return they confiscate your passport and send you back because you may or may not be a terrorist - just to be safe?

I get it. Something definitely needs to be in place to stop extremists from hurting people. But statements like "emergency legislation" should make the hairs on the backs of our necks rise. Think about what that means...
"Here sign these laws to 'protect' our citizens... But do it quickly before anyone really have time to think about it or do anything about it... I present to you exhibit A: The US Patriot Act. Tell Susan Lindauer, Adam McGaughey, Steve Kurtz, Brandon Mayfield and so many others that this worked out just fine for them. Yes, that's perhaps making mountain out of a molehill, i.e. an over-exaggeration, still those words I quoted earlier made me kinda nervous. And I don't even have a dog in the fight.

a reply to: TrueBrit

MI5 is not military it is a civilian intelligence agency as such you are also wrong in saying they have the power of arrest or that they can carry guns like the police do. Their powers lie in investigating not arresting and they rely heavily on working with the police, particularly CTC.

the MI5 you saw on Spooks is very far from the real deal.

Secondly, as I explained to you before with over 270,000 individuals form the UK travelling to Pakistan every year its quite difficult to work out who is staying with family for 3 months and who has snuck of to a terrorist training camp to learn how to make a bomb and blow up a London bus.

a reply to: crostkev

You get a star for that !

They are indeed - and also some of the most intelligent and motivated individuals I have had the pleasure to come across.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I rather think that if things were as black and white as you suggest, with regard to M.I.5, and their apparent lack of power of arrest and all that malarkey, then this country would have been screwed. I am sure that what you say is true on a technicality, but I believe that things rarely work as they are supposed to, but often work as they must.

a reply to: Gemwolf
I watch as our home secretary told a select committee that data retention legislation would only need one day of scrutiny in parliament as there could be a effect on on-going investigations into pedophiles! How many cases you ask? Well our home secretary did have an answer for that one, but best just push this legislation through quick as we can.
UK gov are masters at this game and the public are so blind to it that they don't even care anymore.






wer much to young to deal with thesee problems but they keep thrusting them self's on us... untill finaly wer foced to think of the solution

a reply to: Gemwolf

The phrase emergency powers certainly does make my hackles rise. However, emergency powers do not HAVE to be broad, sweeping, and arbitrary. The fact that they often are is the fault of bad policy writing and ill intentions.

a reply to: Briles1207

Right, because there's no such thing as radical Muslims. :Rolleyes:

In an attempt to avoid the cynical comments.

The UK terror rating being raised to "severe" is pretty rare. This coupled with likelihood that the Islamic State is going to be systematically destroyed is likely to result in some of the British Jihadists returning home. When the going gets tough they'll come back to the safety of the UK. Only, some will be hell bent on continuing their sick little bender.

The intelligence services probably know more than they would admit.

Regards

originally posted by: redshoes
a reply to: TrueBrit

I see where you are coming from, really I do. But what about those guys that killed Lee Rigby?

The larger threat to the UK comes not only from those ISL fighters who are UK citizens fighting abroad, in my opinion an attack in the UK is far more likely to come from Jihadists that have been born and raised in the UK and who have never left in the first place.

I guess the 500 as there called, cough. cough. have the potential to be couriers with instructions on a coordinated attack. (beat's any tech spoofing software)
This then presents a real and present danger to, not just armed forces personnel, but citizens. I truly believe if ISIS are organizing anything in the UK it will attack the population at large.

a reply to: paraphi
So I thought I'd do a fact check on your "not very often" statement and you're total correct (tip of the hat)
But then I noticed were i got this info, well one of the site's anyway, it was RT and in the comments
the first one said
"It's eye-opening how much the Western fascist states rely on the complicity of the "mainstream&quo t; media to sell their lies. It is as if these mediocre fascists ignore the fact that there are other, non-neoliberal state-sponsored news is out there revealing all of their past false flags attacks."
rt.com...

WOW, he should get on ATS absolutely no one has made that point.

what I do not understand is this. In the UK there is still legislation known as the Treason Act. Not sure if that still carries the death penalty or not, I know it used to. Anyway I was watching the news Channel 4 and ITV news this week, and journalists were interviewing wannabe Islamic State Fighters. What they said was really treason against the UK. Should they not be detained and interned at the very least? Or indeed be arrested under the Treason Act. I agree that passports should be confiscated. But Camoron needs to put his money where his mouth is and employ more people in HM Customs and Exercise out on the front line in airports and seaports.

Funny isn't it how times have changed over the decades, as someone who's getting on a bit I can't help but wonder what the reaction of the government would have been back in 1940 if we would have had Nazi sympathisers living in the UK who derided our way of life, who publicly stated and encouraged fellow Germans and sympathisers to rise up and murder British citizens within Britain, or who travelled to the German front lines to fight allied forces then return to these shores to suckle the welfare teat........would we have allowed it then?




Why are we allowing it now?

a reply to: Teye22

Pretty rich actually isn't it? The fact that Britain has played a heavy role in destabilising both regions, and then has the audacity to label them threats. It's as cunning as it is clever and until the world wakes up and realises that the west is the real threat, we'll never have peace.

The U.S. will follow soon. The wars have slowed down, the money has started to dry up, and citizens have started to feel safe from the evil terrorists. Solution? Plaster every news outlet with threats of ISIS until the people support another war.

The U.S. will follow soon. The wars have slowed down, the money has started to dry up, and citizens have started to feel safe from the evil terrorists. Solution? Plaster every news outlet with threats of ISIS until the people support another war.

a reply to: Wirral Bagpuss

Indeed, it is one of the oldest Acts on the books and you're right, "imagining" (ie planning) to either work with the "Kings enemies" (ie the enemies of the UK) or to carry out attacks of any kind either in the UK or abroad is an Act of High Treason.

Unfortunately, the Human Rights Act prohibits any use of Capital punishment, so while it used to be the only offence in which you could be executed in the UK, it is now not the case.

As for the matter of revoking Citizenship, this is a sticky situation. Technically, people cannot be rendered stateless so UK citizens who only have UK citizenship and not a secondary one cannot legally have their's revoked. This is part of the UN Convention on Fundamental Human rights.

Personally, I think they should have their citizenship revoked, just in case anyone thinks I am arguing against it - I am just pointing out the legal hurdles. Sadly, if we are to try and maintain any "high ground" against ISIS, we have to be seen to follow the law.

EDIT: forgot to add - Customs and Excise no longer exists It was split in 2005 into the Border Force and HMRC.