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Hippos likely evolved from a group of anthracotheres about 15 million years ago, the first whales evolved over 50 million years ago, and the ancestor of both these groups was terrestrial.
The Principle of Parsimony is employed when using homologies to make a phylogeny. This principle favors the hypothesis that requires the fewest or simplest assumptions to explain an observation. In phylogenetics, the principle of parsimony invokes the minimal number of evolutionary changes to infer phylogenetic relationships. For example, it is more parsimonious to infer that a vertebral column evolved only once in a common ancestor of all living vertebrates than to infer that it evolved multiple times, once for fish, once for amphibians, etc. The first option requires fewer evolutionary changes.
Systematics, then, is the study of the pattern of relationships among taxa; it is no less than understanding the history of all life. But history is not something we can see. It has happened once and leaves only clues as to the actual events. Biologists in general and systematists in particular use these clues to build hypotheses or models of the history. We hope to convince you that only with a hypothesis of history can we truly discuss evolution.
But, before we begin this journey, hear this warning in the everlasting words of Father Jacobus (from Hesse's Magister Ludi):
To study history one must know in advance that one is attempting something fundamentally impossible, yet necessary and highly important. To study history means submitting to chaos and nevertheless retaining faith in order and meaning. It is a very serious task, young man, and possibly a tragic one.
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: hydeman11
This is a longer version of what I said on page 11 about atheism and atheistic world views. Well said
originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: WarminIndy
Of course I have a world view. I never denied I did. My world view is more agnostic. I also never implied that any world view is negative, so I'm not sure what you are getting at. If "someone" chose to imply that about Christian world view, then speak to them about it. I certainly didn't do it. I think it's hogwash, but I certainly won't look down on you for believing it.
originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: WarminIndy
Because its a big family over many generations. With enough generations there is enough mutation that they at some point become less related so its not exactly inbreeding.
You are also selectively cherry picking species where their ancestor is not known and ignoring ones that are.
If you really want answers you should ask a biologist, not people on a forum.
When people don't question authority when it comes to evolution, then that's the same as not questioning the religious authorities. You simply have to question everything.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: TzarChasm
I'd like to take a moment to point out that evolution is not the answer to everything, its the best current answer to how life developed to be what it is today. I sensed possible confusion from the wording, so I felt I sshould set the record straight on that.
There are some people who think it does and believe it so militaristically that that will demand you believe or else.
That's kind of like the Middle Ages, I think. Believe or else.
I do think selective breeding does occur, because we do it all the time. We do it to horses, dogs, cats, slaves...you name it. People even do it in bars, on the beach, at home, in no-tell motels...
Selective breeding is intentional in humans and by humans. So they kind of prove that point.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: WarminIndy
When people don't question authority when it comes to evolution, then that's the same as not questioning the religious authorities. You simply have to question everything.
i agree. science only works when you are willing to question everything. my question is whether you are questioning what science tells us about evolution, or just flat out refusing to accept it no matter what we discover through science.
originally posted by: Xaphan
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: TzarChasm
I'd like to take a moment to point out that evolution is not the answer to everything, its the best current answer to how life developed to be what it is today. I sensed possible confusion from the wording, so I felt I sshould set the record straight on that.
There are some people who think it does and believe it so militaristically that that will demand you believe or else.
That's kind of like the Middle Ages, I think. Believe or else.
I do think selective breeding does occur, because we do it all the time. We do it to horses, dogs, cats, slaves...you name it. People even do it in bars, on the beach, at home, in no-tell motels...
Selective breeding is intentional in humans and by humans. So they kind of prove that point.
Animals do it too, and they don't even realize it. There are alpha males in the animal kingdom, if you didn't know. Even they have a sexual hierarchy.
Also, did you know that women are more likely to cheat when they are ovulating? Not only that, but they are more likely to cheat with a male who has higher testosterone than their current partner. This is proof that even humans have a subconscious selective breeding pattern and have an urge to mix only with those who have superior DNA. We exhibit animal behavior, because we are essentially just animals with more advanced brains.
I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. There is no 'good/bad' dichotomy when it comes to evolution. It's just that whatever happens to benefit the species is what survives. It is something to be thankful for in some ways I guess. If we didn't have selective breeding wired into our brains we would all be disgusting troglodytes with more health problems than you can shake a stick at. Same goes for animals.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: WarminIndy
When people don't question authority when it comes to evolution, then that's the same as not questioning the religious authorities. You simply have to question everything.
i agree. science only works when you are willing to question everything. my question is whether you are questioning what science tells us about evolution, or just flat out refusing to accept it no matter what we discover through science.
I will agree that apples fall because of gravity. But I also am amazed at how helium balloons float. I know why they do, but it still amazes me.
I have flown many times and know that aerodynamics makes the plane fly, but it amazes me so much that when I am in that airplane I always look at the clouds and say "God, this is amazing what you have done". Is there anything wrong with acknowledging to the Creator that I appreciate His handiwork?
When I look on nature, I see God's work in it. Is there anything wrong with that?
I know God didn't make the airplane, man did. But man didn't make the aerodynamic principles.
originally posted by: TzarChasm
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: WarminIndy
When people don't question authority when it comes to evolution, then that's the same as not questioning the religious authorities. You simply have to question everything.
i agree. science only works when you are willing to question everything. my question is whether you are questioning what science tells us about evolution, or just flat out refusing to accept it no matter what we discover through science.
Well now, back to the faith and religious question.
I will agree that apples fall because of gravity. But I also am amazed at how helium balloons float. I know why they do, but it still amazes me.
I have flown many times and know that aerodynamics makes the plane fly, but it amazes me so much that when I am in that airplane I always look at the clouds and say "God, this is amazing what you have done". Is there anything wrong with acknowledging to the Creator that I appreciate His handiwork?
When I look on nature, I see God's work in it. Is there anything wrong with that?
I know God didn't make the airplane, man did. But man didn't make the aerodynamic principles.
you can thank the fundamental forces for those principles. but i wasnt aware that the fundamental forces of the universe could be considered intelligent, or had been determined to be the product of an intelligence.
originally posted by: Xaphan
originally posted by: WarminIndy
originally posted by: TzarChasm
I'd like to take a moment to point out that evolution is not the answer to everything, its the best current answer to how life developed to be what it is today. I sensed possible confusion from the wording, so I felt I sshould set the record straight on that.
There are some people who think it does and believe it so militaristically that that will demand you believe or else.
That's kind of like the Middle Ages, I think. Believe or else.
I do think selective breeding does occur, because we do it all the time. We do it to horses, dogs, cats, slaves...you name it. People even do it in bars, on the beach, at home, in no-tell motels...
Selective breeding is intentional in humans and by humans. So they kind of prove that point.
Animals do it too, and they don't even realize it. There are alpha males in the animal kingdom, if you didn't know. Even they have a sexual hierarchy.
Also, did you know that women are more likely to cheat when they are ovulating? Not only that, but they are more likely to cheat with a male who has higher testosterone than their current partner. This is proof that even humans have a subconscious selective breeding pattern and have an urge to mix only with those who have superior DNA. We exhibit animal behavior, because we are essentially just animals with more advanced brains.
I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing. There is no 'good/bad' dichotomy when it comes to evolution. It's just that whatever happens to benefit the species is what survives. It is something to be thankful for in some ways I guess. If we didn't have selective breeding wired into our brains we would all be disgusting troglodytes with more health problems than you can shake a stick at. Same goes for animals.
originally posted by: Cogito, Ergo Sum
It seems all of your original questions have been answered. Though unlikely to your satisfaction unless they mention god and some are seemingly ridiculous enough to only require a one word answer (such as wondering if there are 6-7 billion different species of hominid on the planet at the moment).
The genetic mutation waffle is also answered, random or not, they are considered random with respect to evolution at this stage.
It also shows that, despite claims to the contrary, science realises there is a lot yet to learn and is open to whatever it finds on this subject and is looking.
The rest is simply hot air.
There is nothing inherently wrong in believing in a higher power in a personal sense (who knows?), but when it conflicts with observable reality to the extent it argues that a specific belief is a fact...then is backed up only with ignorance/pseudo science, waffle and more belief....then it's a delusion.
originally posted by: Aural
a reply to: WarminIndy
I never gave a specific number and im just reciting something i vaguely remember hearing about.
Im just saying you can get better answers from someone who actually works as a biologist who specializes in evolution. They will be the best at explaining things. Not everyone here has all the answers.
originally posted by: WarminIndy
OK, you are agnostic, which means in your worldview it has room for such a possibility. Evolution is a worldview because it make accommodation for no such possibility. Therefore it is a worldview according to the definition.
Atheism simply means that one does not believe in God, therefore no room for such a possibility.