Breaking: Michael Brown Allegedly Involved in Second Degree Murder Case

This is ridiculous and I feel like they are saying this to cover the officers asses. A guy can't defend himself if he's dead, right? The fact that the officer didn't know who he was when he stopped him, makes it so if this is true, it doesn't matter. He didn't know that Brown killed someone, if this is true.

And if it's not... People will still believe it. It's a shame.

There many problems with going by a juvenile record. The protections under the law dont always apply to juveniles . Some states a juvenile do NOT get the luxury of a jury trial the judge makes the decision in family court.

If 3 guys are arrested for murder and only 1 did it and is convicted the other 2 did not know any thing and are released . Even if totally innocent the arrest for murder can hang on a record for decades or till death. Some jurisdictions you can get record sealed for $150 and the bogus arrest expunged via lawyer $1500. Used 10 yo fees.

The sealed record can be reopened for fbi back ground check but expunging wipes the slate.

Wrongly arrested ? Need a clear back ground check 1 option pay a lawyer to fix it.

Just saying he was arrested for murder being a juvenile don't mean squat a LEO might have tried to scare a kid or just mess with a kid. The protections offered adults don't apply to juveniles . It all depends on how big of a d#$k they want to be.

And being under investigation also dont mean squat all it takes to have you under investigation is hear say from almost any one and it dont have to be credible , a officer saw you in proximity to a criminal , gave someone a ride home from work who was a criminal know a criminal or have a relative who is one.

What matters is convictions the rest is gossip .

originally posted by: JuniorDisco
What has actually happened: Charles C Johnson has sued for Brown's arrest record because he claims a "source" has told him that Brown was arrested for "involvement" in a second degree murder case. We know nothing about the case, what his involvement was, or indeed if there is a shred of truth in the story at all.

What you say: Brown has been convicted of involvement in second degree murder.


Do you not see that you are being played? I guess you do, but you actually like it.

Precisely.

macman, et. al - do you not recall what happened only days ago?
The fictional account about some orbital blowout which was made-up?

That became "fact" even though it was only hearsay from anonymous sources.
This has become "fact" even though it is only hearsay from anonymous sources.

Stop choosing a political side based on your own opinions and beliefs if you care about the real, actual truth.

Speaking of the real, actual truth - we know that Wilson shot at Brown while he was running away because that's what law enforcement authorities working the case told the New York Times - he just didn't hit him directly in the back.

We can also infer some other things based on other information that we have a reason to believe is true:

Now that we have a fairly reliable audio of the shooting (after a 4s pause from the initial rapid fire volley he was shot at 4 or 5 times), and due to the autopsy by Dr. Baden (he was shot 6 or more times), simple math and the placement of entry wounds suggests that he may have been struck in the arm from behind.

Anonymous reports that are unverified should not be taken as fact until they are confirmed.

a reply to: Greven

I do believe that the coroner report stated entry wounds were on the front side of Mr. Brown. Exit wounds were to the rear.
As for political side??? And what would that be? I have stated time and time again that all of the facts are not out and that the investigation needs to be concluded before people protest, riot, loot and anything....

But, just as usual, gloss over that and banter on.

a reply to: Greven

In addition too....If Mr Brown did indeed attack the LEO, with his bare hands, and then went to flee, this is considered as a "Dangerous Fleeing Felon" and the use of deadly force is authorized.

a reply to: macman
Hint 1: Arms can turn.
Hint 2: One shot struck his thumb (palm side) while another struck his forearm (palm side).
Hint 3: He was shot 6+ times, but only 4-5 shots were rapidly fired after a 4s pause, matching up with statements that he turned.

Most shots definitely came from the front, but not all must have come from the front. It's possible that the bullet fired inside the vehicle struck or grazed him and none struck him while he was running. However, a bullet striking him in the arm as he ran matches a lot of witness statements and would likely prompt him to stop and turn around abruptly.

Remember, his body was over 30 feet away from the police SUV where the confrontation took place. Authorities told the NYT that Wilson got out of his vehicle and fired at Brown as he walked briskly towards Brown, but they didn't say how many times he shot. We now know that was at least 5 shots.

If you really care about facts, you would not so casually be asserting things that are not facts, like this:

originally posted by: macman
Deserve it??? Why, did I just commit a robbery and am being investigated for Second Degree Murder? Nope.

Or this:

originally posted by: macman
He was arrested for being involved with that.
SOOO much better then being investigated for it.
www.ijreview.com...

Because, you know... not facts at this point. It's supposedly info from a biased individual trusting two anonymous sources.

a reply to: macman
As I've said in the past, this all hinges on what happened between Brown and Wilson at his SUV, though I'm not sure why you replied twice to a single post.

originally posted by: Greven

Hint 1: Arms can turn.
Hint 2: One shot struck his thumb (palm side) while another struck his forearm (palm side).
Hint 3: He was shot 6+ times, but only 4-5 shots were rapidly fired after a 4s pause, matching up with statements that he turned.

I am well aware of how to read a coroners report.
I am also aware and well versed in FBI based interviewing and interrogation techniques. Knowing this, people's stories of accounts, bystanders and people directly involved are not always accurate.
The tiny revolver becomes a giant hand cannon.
And, knowing and being involved with investigating shootings, striking a body in motion can produce odd results.
Like, appearing that the person was shot from behind.
But, yet again, I will wait until ALL of the evidence comes out.

originally posted by: Greven

Most shots definitely came from the front, but not all must have come from the front. It's possible that the bullet fired inside the vehicle struck or grazed him and none struck him while he was running. However, a bullet striking him in the arm as he ran matches a lot of witness statements and would likely prompt him to stop and turn around abruptly.[/quote
Again, I will wait for the trial.

originally posted by: Greven
Remember, his body was over 30 feet away from the police SUV where the confrontation took place. Authorities told the NYT that Wilson got out of his vehicle and fired at Brown as he walked briskly towards Brown, but they didn't say how many times he shot. We now know that was at least 5 shots.[/quote
Yes, thanks for pointing that out.

originally posted by: Greven
If you really care about facts, you would not so casually be asserting things that are not facts, like this:

Would you like to provide the entire context of that statement, or is cherry picking okay with you.

originally posted by: Greven
Because, you know... not facts at this point. It's supposedly info from a biased individual trusting two anonymous sources.

In my statement about that, directly...I stated that IF he did attack the LEO, he deserved being shot.
I also stated that not one ounce of caring would be given over his death, as he is shown to have little concern with others, like store owners, and also appearing to have a juvenile conviction related to 2nd murder.
Mother Theresa did not live in him.

originally posted by: Greven
As I've said in the past, this all hinges on what happened between Brown and Wilson at his SUV, though I'm not sure why you replied twice to a single post.

Ahhh..never mind.

a reply to: macman

Knowing this, you should acknowledge that this report, from an individual claiming this information came from anonymous sources, is not evidence nor fact.

One should not use an unsubstantiated claim as a basis for opinion - at best, it is merely something to keep in mind. One should also not instantly begin using this claim as if it were fact.

Don't you agree?

Perhaps one should gauge the worth of the individual based on his own writings. While the incidents are not related, the individual claiming this information has written some questionable things:

Kind of hard to like James Foley when he blames U.S. government for his killing. Just saying. #ISIS
— Charles C. Johnson (@ChuckCJohnson) August 20, 2014

While we cannot yet dismiss the allegation, an individual of his character does not deserve the benefit of the doubt in this matter:

Charles C. Johnson has made more than a few enemies in Mississippi following the state's tense Republican U.S. Senate runoff earlier this month. So many, in fact, that the conservative journalist and all-around agitator is now openly wondering if he will become the victim of a deadly conspiracy.
...
Johnson thrust himself into the middle of Mississippi's tense political dispute earlier this month when he reported on Stevie Fielder, a self-proclaimed minister who claimed that Sen. Thad Cochran's (R-MS) campaign bribed black voters in the Republican runoff against tea party challenger Chris McDaniel.
...
Fielder, who's already changed his story previously, "admitted he got paid $2,000 to lie," according to Hood.
...
Fittingly, Hood's comments were reported by Clarion-Ledger reporter Sam R. Hall, who's become Johnson's biggest journalistic adversary during the fallout over the runoff.

On Tuesday, in fact, Johnson vowed to sue Hall for defamation over an article on Johnson's purportedly improper use of photographs from other news outlets.

www.stltoday.com...

Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no serious felony convictions, did not face felony charges

originally posted by: Dolby_X
www.stltoday.com...

Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no serious felony convictions, did not face felony charges

How sweet of them.....so no class a or b felonies yet they still won't release his records.....wonder what they are hiding in there....well they are admitting he had a record and implying there is more than one incident in it I guess.....

Poor Saint Michael.....

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Dolby_X
www.stltoday.com...

Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no serious felony convictions, did not face felony charges

How sweet of them.....so no class a or b felonies yet they still won't release his records.....wonder what they are hiding in there....well they are admitting he had a record and implying there is more than one incident in it I guess.....

Poor Saint Michael.....

Why in the hell does it matter?

If he did have a record...does that make his death acceptable?

originally posted by: kruphix

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Dolby_X
www.stltoday.com...

Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no serious felony convictions, did not face felony charges

How sweet of them.....so no class a or b felonies yet they still won't release his records.....wonder what they are hiding in there....well they are admitting he had a record and implying there is more than one incident in it I guess.....

Poor Saint Michael.....

Why in the hell does it matter?

If he did have a record...does that make his death acceptable?

Nope...his death was acceptable already. The kid was a "contribute nothing to society thug" that decided he could rough up a police officer and found out the hard/dead way that he couldn't.

I am tired of these thugs being portrayed as some great young kid, just about to get his life going and bound for amazing things. Having a record goes towards the mindset and actions of this thug, just as the video of him strong armed robbing a convenience store 5 minutes before being shot. I get sick of all these people saying how sweet he was and he was going to start college the very next Monday and blah blah blah.....this idiot was a POS....world is better without him.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

Nope...his death was acceptable already. The kid was a "contribute nothing to society thug" that decided he could rough up a police officer and found out the hard/dead way that he couldn't.

What?

You think a police officer has the right to be judge, jury, and executioner?

We still don't have all the facts, but even if the account of Officer Wilson is correct and Brown was coming back at him, unarmed, I don't think that justifies him shooting him...once let alone multiple times.

But it seems like you honestly don't care...you just seem like you are actually glad that there is one more dead black kid. How very nice of you.

originally posted by: Dolby_X
www.stltoday.com...

Juvenile court: Michael Brown had no serious felony convictions, did not face felony charges

I, for one, am completely shocked that Charles C. Johnson is making stuff up - or at the very least trusting sources that he shouldn't - again.

Thank you for the find.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Having a record goes towards the mindset and actions of this thug, just as the video of him strong armed robbing a convenience store 5 minutes before being shot.

Except he... didn't have a record, it seems?
At the very least, not major offenses.

Perhaps you should pay heed to the words in your signature.

a reply to: Greven

All should come out during the investigation and trial.

We shall all see.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Nope...his death was acceptable already. The kid was a "contribute nothing to society thug" that decided he could rough up a police officer and found out the hard/dead way that he couldn't.

What?

You think a police officer has the right to be judge, jury, and executioner?

We still don't have all the facts, but even if the account of Officer Wilson is correct and Brown was coming back at him, unarmed, I don't think that justifies him shooting him...once let alone multiple times.

But it seems like you honestly don't care...you just seem like you are actually glad that there is one more dead black kid. How very nice of you.

Yeah....because I said specifically a dead black kid. :rollseyes:

See this is where racism breaks down....everyone assumes. No....what I said is a dead thug that has contributed nothing to society and had just committed a felony.....I know I won't lose any sleep over it, and have not as of yet. I could care less what color he was....a thug is a thug.

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Having a record goes towards the mindset and actions of this thug, just as the video of him strong armed robbing a convenience store 5 minutes before being shot.

Except he... didn't have a record, it seems?
At the very least, not major offenses.

Perhaps you should pay heed to the words in your signature.

Nope...they simply said no class a or b felony convictions. Nothing about him not having a record. It is a tactic very commonly used in the court of public opinion...almost as good as the 10 year old pictures they use if the innocent kids being gunned down, such as those in their middle school graduation outfits and what not.

If you read the actual statement released by the attorneys, it is very obvious that they are skirting the issue of him having an arrest record. I am looking forward to this coming out simply to show that Brown was a no good life long thug that was just building to the next higher level of crime with each successive incident.

Sorry, but people can complain about this line of thinking to me until they are blue in the face....simple fact of the matter is that I don't know anyone nor did I grow up knowing anyone that acted like this piece of trash acted, and if I had, they certainly would not be called a good kid by the community.

Uh-huh. Quite frankly, it seems to me that you will believe what you want to believe, regardless of facts in the matter.

Speaking of which, there was a a new witness account. Here's the summary.

Almost all of the witnesses who shared these accounts with media either knew Brown; lived at or near the Canfield Green apartments, where the shooting occurred; or were visiting friends or relatives there.

But there were two outsiders who happened to be working outside at the apartment complex on Aug. 9 — two men from a company in Jefferson County — who heard a single gunshot, looked up from their work and witnessed the shooting.
...
The worker, who has not previously spoken with reporters, said he did not see what happened at the officer’s car — where Wilson and Brown engaged in an initial struggle and a shot was fired from Wilson’s gun.

His account largely matches those who reported that Wilson chased Brown on foot away from the car after the initial gunshot and fired at least one more shot in the direction of Brown as he was fleeing; that Brown stopped, turned around and put his hands up; and that the officer killed Brown in a barrage of gunfire.
...
The worker said he saw Brown on Aug. 9 about 11 a.m. as Brown was walking west on Canfield Drive, toward West Florissant Avenue.

He said Brown struck up a rambling, half-hour conversation with his co-worker.

The co-worker could not be reached for comment through his employer. He previously told KTVI (Channel 2) that he had uttered a profanity in frustration after hitting a tree root while digging. Brown heard him and stopped to talk.

Brown “told me he was feeling some bad vibes,” the co-worker told KTVI in a video that aired Aug. 12. “That the Lord Jesus Christ would help me through that as long as I didn’t get all angry at what I was doing.”

The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch said he paid attention to little of the conversation. He said he heard Brown tell his co-worker that he had a picture of Jesus on his wall; and the co-worker joked that the devil had a picture of him on the wall.

The co-worker told KTVI that Brown promised to come back and resume their conversation; Brown walked away, and the workers returned to their job.

About a half-hour later, the worker heard a gunshot. Then he saw Brown running away from a police car. Wilson trailed about 10 to 15 feet behind, gun in hand. About 90 feet away from the car, the worker said, Wilson fired another shot at Brown, whose back was turned.

The worker said Brown stumbled and then stopped, put his hands up, turned around and said, “OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.” He said he told investigators from the St. Louis County police and the FBI that because of the stumble, it seemed to him that Brown had been wounded.
...
Wilson, gun drawn, also stopped about 10 feet in front of Brown, the worker said.

Then Brown moved, the worker said. “He’s kind of walking back toward the cop.” He said Brown’s hands were still up.

Wilson began backing up as he fired, the worker said.

After the third shot, Brown’s hands started going down, and he moved about 25 feet toward Wilson, who kept backing away and firing. The worker said he could not tell from where he watched — about 50 feet away — if Brown’s motion toward Wilson after the shots was “a stumble to the ground” or “OK, I’m going to get you, you’re already shooting me.”
...
He said the officer “didn’t say, ‘Get on the ground.’ He didn’t say anything. At first his gun was down and then he … got about 8 to 10 feet away from him … I heard six, seven shots … it seemed like seven. Then he put his gun down. That’s when Michael stumbled forward. I’d say about 25 feet or so and then fell right on his face.”

No witness has ever publicly claimed that Brown charged at Wilson. The worker interviewed by the Post-Dispatch disputed claims by Wilson’s defenders that Brown was running full speed at the officer.

“I don’t know if he was going after him or if he was falling down to die,” he said. “It wasn’t a bull rush.”

Remember how people kept latching on to the idea that Brown charged Wilson? Didn't happen and nobody credible ever said it did. We know from the police account to the NYT that Brown ran, Wilson got out and advanced towards him while firing. This is yet another account mostly corroborating what other witnesses already have said - that it looked like he jerked like he got hit.

Given the shots to the arm and thumb which could have come from either front or back, given that police investigating the case acknowledge Wilson shot at Brown while Brown was running away, and given the multiple accounts by witnesses thinking he was shot, it seems rather likely that he was indeed hit while running away. He just wasn't get struck in the back.

The facts are what matters. Witness statements can better contextualize those facts, but they can be rather inaccurate. On the other hand, the fact that so many witness statements align with one another is rather telling.

originally posted by: kruphix
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Nope...his death was acceptable already. The kid was a "contribute nothing to society thug" that decided he could rough up a police officer and found out the hard/dead way that he couldn't.

What?

You think a police officer has the right to be judge, jury, and executioner?

We still don't have all the facts, but even if the account of Officer Wilson is correct and Brown was coming back at him, unarmed, I don't think that justifies him shooting him...once let alone multiple times.

But it seems like you honestly don't care...you just seem like you are actually glad that there is one more dead black kid. How very nice of you.

They've faked pictures of the officer twice now. I really don't believe that the officer was harmed at all. He just wanted to deal a heavy dose of fear.
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