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If Religious Teachings On Hell Are True, God Is A Failure

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posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

er...ah..what?!?

If the person is willing to commit suicide I believe.....nevermind this is ridiculous.....almost as ridiculous as a "god".




posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

So, you think it's unfair for God to set rules for His creation?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm


Unless free will is God's little inside joke, it's not "murder" to voluntarily take ones own life. Murder is the act of killing someone else.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: TheJourney
I originally had this thought a number of years ago. But the thought popped up in my head during a conversation earlier today. If over half of the population goes to hell, God failed. His creating the world caused a greater amount of suffering than it did joy. So, in that case, God failed. He shouldn't have created the world. He messed up, big time. No matter WHAT religious belief is true, well under half of the population believes it. And if the doctrine is that non-believers go to hell, well over half of the population will go to hell. Thus, God failed.

I'm guessing you are a Christian believer. Having said that, let me tell you something. God does not failed. The Bible tell the story of 2 end of the world events. 1 the great flood and 2 the events in the book of revelations. In both a lot of people die, but that's does not mean that God failed. If you really open your eyes and see what Hell means, then you will understand. Like Dante said "to go up you have to go down". Hell is a place of purification, cleansing by fire.

In order for things to work out, there has to be balance. Ying/Yang, Black/White, Positive/Negative, Man/Woman, Good/Evil, etc...



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

I think there are several misunderstandings here.


If over half of the population goes to hell, God failed.


What do you think His goal is? If it was to get everybody into heaven, He didn't even need to create an Earth, He could have just created several billion people directly in Heaven.

The Army wants Green Berets. Fewer than half of the soldiers make it, did the Army fail? The Earth, and Ft. Benning, has a purpose. You're assuming God created the Earth (I agree), and He knew that the humans in it could only know true love if they were able to reject it. Love is something that every part of you wants to do, not that you are robotically programmed to do. (OK, I understand that for most guys it seems that it's robotically programmed, but that's lust, not love.)

God knows that love, freely given love, is as good as it ever gets. So He made me, and you, and asks us "Well? What about it? You can love Me, and I will show you to greater and greater love, or you can love yourselves, and tell Me to hit the road."'

Whether it's 1%, 49%, or 99% that tell God to get lost, that's not God's failure, it's ours. We grew up, told God that we didn't want anything to do with Him ever again, grabbed the car keys, and drove off. That's our choice. He respects the choice we made, and doesn't make us stick around if we don't want to. Of course, we miss out on all the family events at home, but that's our choice.


His creating the world caused a greater amount of suffering than it did joy. So, in that case, God failed.


Only if God's goal was to make people happy all of the time. He could have done that by rewiring our brains. Heck, WE can probably do that by rewiring our brains. Do you think His goal was to make happy robots? No, we can tell the world, "I'm going to dedicate my life to (say) recreating musical instruments in use 2,000 years ago." That may make you broke and a laughingstock, it may make you rich, and acknowledged as a genius, but it is YOUR choice of what YOU want to do, and that is more valuable than anything else I can think of at the moment.



No matter WHAT religious belief is true, well under half of the population believes it. And if the doctrine is that non-believers go to hell, well over half of the population will go to hell.


The largest denomination in the world (Catholicism. Sunni is a bit smaller.) says specifically that "non-believers" aren't automatically on their way to Hell. She recognizes that many will never even hear of Jesus, or will die from various causes before they are old enough to have a mature judgment on the question. There are also other reasons for not becoming a Christian, and she explores those, relying on God's Justice and Mercy.

There's nothing in the teachings of the Catholic Church which says over half the people will go to hell. If you want it in the most simplified (and therefore most easily misunderstood) form: God loves us, He has planted in our very being a desire to return Love by following our inner spirit back to Him, it's source.

We may reject that spirit, refuse to learn more about God when we have the chance, or we learn about Him and declare "Nuts, I'm doing this on my own." That's easy enough to do, just snatch up the car keys and drive away, further and further, and further from Home.

That's not God's failure.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:01 PM
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a reply to: Abednego

Thus the fallacy in the idea of hell being punishment forever and ever with no redemption or escape.

What's the point of that? It's a sadist/masochist's paradise.

If THIS world we are in is a sort of hell... and it surely is for all of us at times... and some of us ALL the time... and we move on in energy form to new lands and lessons, that makes a bit more sense (in the sense of spit-balling reality models, that is).



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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a reply to: TheJourney

Well, if there is a Creator of the universe (a.k.a. God), then judging by his creation he is a lot more complex than we are able to fathom.

Statements like "If there is a hell, then God failed" really over-simplify this complexity, and attempt to humanize an entity that is infinitely more complex than humans.

In essence, the thesis in the OP puts God in a box in which he does not fit in order to sustain what is purported.

In truth, if there is a "hell", then only God knows what it really is, and only God knows what his true intentions were for creation.

I think it makes people feel better if they can wrap their heads around something by putting it in their own box, instead of just saying "we can't know" and just... knowing thy place.

edit on 8/28/2014 by InTheFlesh1980 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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originally posted by: minusinfinity
a reply to: TzarChasm



Well if you classify suicide as murder you could say masturbation is rape.




No Sir !
Masturbation is sex with someone you really Love!



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: InTheFlesh1980




In truth, if there is a "hell", then only God knows what it really is, and only God knows what his true intentions were for creation.



Why assume that there is "hell" in the first place? Why, if there IS a God, does that mean there has to be a "hell"?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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originally posted by: DogMeat

originally posted by: minusinfinity
a reply to: TzarChasm



Well if you classify suicide as murder you could say masturbation is rape.




No Sir !
Masturbation is sex with someone you really Love!


LOL. (i smiled.)

True but suicide is killing the person you hate.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: minusinfinity

originally posted by: DogMeat

originally posted by: minusinfinity
a reply to: TzarChasm



Well if you classify suicide as murder you could say masturbation is rape.




No Sir !
Masturbation is sex with someone you really Love!


LOL. (i smiled.)

True but suicide is killing the person you hate.


Have you ever been suicidal? That is a sweeping generalization that isn't necessarily true.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: TzarChasm


Unless free will is God's little inside joke, it's not "murder" to voluntarily take ones own life. Murder is the act of killing someone else.




That is a false premise. God set the standards, the Law. If the Law is that He determines when your life should end instead of you, then it is absolutely wrong to take your own life (murder yourself) even with free will. Yes, you do have the free will to go against God's standard and break His Law, but then, it is a sin, and because it is a very final sin, it becomes, by definition, mortal. You can't repent of it because you are dead.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:24 PM
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originally posted by: windword
a reply to: InTheFlesh1980
Why assume that there is "hell" in the first place? Why, if there IS a God, does that mean there has to be a "hell"?

I agree, the existence (or non-existence) of a creator (God) does not have implications regarding the existence of "hell".

My belief is that "hell" in the spiritual sense is not a place of fire and brimstone, but rather a practical metaphor for being apart from / away from / not with the creator for eternity. This separation, outside of time and space, is the existence of the soul "apart" from God... a torment because of a spiritual yearning, knowing that the creator exists but not existing in unity or harmony with him, termed "hell".



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:32 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko




That is a false premise.


According to who, you?


God set the standards, the Law. If the Law is that He determines when your life should end instead of you, then it is absolutely wrong to take your own life (murder yourself) even with free will.


Who said that only God determines when a person should die? If that were true, how could someone be guilty of murder? It HAD to have been God's will and that person's time, right? Every car accident, every act of war, every time someone was in the wrong place at the wrong time as result of not heeding God's voice, at some other time, (cause and effect) would be a death caused by someone exercising their free will over God's will? Because God's will is perfect.

What about free will? Is using your own free will a sin or not?


Yes, you do have the free will to go against God's standard and break His Law, but then, it is a sin, and because it is a very final sin, it becomes, by definition, mortal. You can't repent of it because you are dead.


Then there is no free will, according to you.

If using one's own free will to end the life that belongs to only themselves' is not a sin, then there is no need to repent.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: minusinfinity

originally posted by: DogMeat

originally posted by: minusinfinity
a reply to: TzarChasm



Well if you classify suicide as murder you could say masturbation is rape.




No Sir !
Masturbation is sex with someone you really Love!


LOL. (i smiled.)

True but suicide is killing the person you hate.


Have you ever been suicidal? That is a sweeping generalization that isn't necessarily true.


Have i thought about killing myself? Sure. Maybe. I'm past that. I won't. I have too much fun.

I don't want to die. I've thought about death and what happens when you die, who hasn't?

To tell the truth I'm afraid of death.

Most people are afraid of dying.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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a reply to: InTheFlesh1980

I don't believe in a place where "god" isn't. But, then again, I don't believe in a god that is a person, or a deity that is confined by time or space, to be here or there and not here or there.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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originally posted by: minusinfinity

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: minusinfinity

originally posted by: DogMeat

originally posted by: minusinfinity
a reply to: TzarChasm



Well if you classify suicide as murder you could say masturbation is rape.




No Sir !
Masturbation is sex with someone you really Love!


LOL. (i smiled.)

True but suicide is killing the person you hate.


Have you ever been suicidal? That is a sweeping generalization that isn't necessarily true.


Have i thought about killing myself? Sure. Maybe. I'm past that. I won't. I have too much fun.

I don't want to die. I've thought about death and what happens when you die, who hasn't?

To tell the truth I'm afraid of death.

Most people are afraid of dying.




Addressing suicide as killing the person you hate.....

When Jesus was being tempted by Satan, while on his vision quest in the desert, Jesus must have felt like giving up, because Satan offered him a way out, tell him to leap off the cliff, that, surely the angels would catch him.

I have no doubt that angels would have caught him, or anyone else leaping into their arms, and into the arms of the god that they believe in.

Some people are more afraid to live than die.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:55 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
If we are created in his image then I believe we all go to heaven, the only hell we should worry about is our own personal hell that some of us struggle with.


Really? So everyone that ever existed is going to heaven? That sounds brutal. I mean, most people are totally annoying, and they are all going to be around all the time (including all those dolts from history that I never met)… forever? As much as I hate the idea of dying (and don't believe in any of this stunted dungeons and dragons mumbo jumbo), that actually sounds like hell. Especially because my personal life now is pretty alright.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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originally posted by: TheJourney
I originally had this thought a number of years ago. But the thought popped up in my head during a conversation earlier today. If over half of the population goes to hell, God failed. His creating the world caused a greater amount of suffering than it did joy. So, in that case, God failed. He shouldn't have created the world. He messed up, big time. No matter WHAT religious belief is true, well under half of the population believes it. And if the doctrine is that non-believers go to hell, well over half of the population will go to hell. Thus, God failed.


No where in the bible does it say, man will burn in hell. It only states the beast and the false prophet.

Rev. 19:20-21


But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.





posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 04:08 PM
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a reply to: windword

No I said there is free will. There is always free will. I told you - you can choose to go against God's Law, His wish which is to let your life ends as He wills.

When you were a child with parents, didn't they make the rules? How many times did those rules stop you from actually breaking them? If you still were able to break your parents rules, then those rules did not take away your free will. They simply imposed consequences on certain choices you made.

This is the same. God lets you choose, but He can still impose consequences on you for making certain choices. It's no different than what your parents do ... or what the government does. Despite the rules or the laws governing us, we are still free to act as we choose although the consequences imposed for making a choice and taking an action may be something we are not willing to risk.




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