How can you be Pro-Life and support the death penalty and the war?

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posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:09 PM
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What I want to know is how pro-life christians can support the death penalty and the war in Iraq. And why is a fetus' life is worth more than any other life? Why don't you organize to stop other kinds of killing of innocents?




posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:10 PM
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Good point , maybe they want to kill them later rather than sooner?

But they are different ethical issues not necessarily related to each other.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:15 PM
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True they are different circumstances. But, I think the holier than thou preaching about the sanctity of life in general begs the question... Is it ever ok to kill? And if so, who decides?



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:43 PM
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You can't see these are completely different situations? Both of those situations come down one statement: A society has the right to protect the innocent from the harm of predators. If a society deems that fetuses inside the mothers womb are alive in some form then aborting these fetuses would be the same as the killing of an innocent soul. A society also has the right to protect its citizens from vicious predators that seek to purposely cause harm. See the difference yet? One is a innocent baby and the other is a harmful predator not that hard to follow I dont think.

Now of course I will say this before I get flamed, there are always areas of gray in life where everything is not clear and simple. I dont think a woman should be forced to have a baby when the health of the mother is at risk. But I dont think its great for Mothers to have 4, 5 or 6 abortions using the abortion clinics as a form of birth control. Abortion is a hard decision and the mother will live with the pain of making it for the rest of her life. Im also against the death penalty because I believe that if there is even the slightest chance that a person could be wrongfully placed on death row then a society should always air on the side of caution to protect the innocent. However, in very horrific crimes where there is no doubt of the guilty party then why bother keeping these people alive with even the chance that they could hurt someone else?

Again, it all boils down to protecting innocent lives.


[edit on 5-12-2004 by zerotime]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:45 PM
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Why does it have to be pro-life Christians? Do Christians have a monopoly on feelings or morals? Is it necessary to not want to allow babies to be murdered?


I think there is a difference between murder and killing, and a difference between killing and volunteering your life. When a soldier enlists, we know there is a distinct possibility of being killed, and we accept that risk. Likewise, when the enemy picks up his weapon to fight you for something he believes in, he understands that he will probably die, and you are absolved of the crime of taking that life assuming of course you felt that your actions were for a greater good. When you and your enemy take up arms against each other willingly, this is mutual combat. Of course, this does not excuse the death of innocents caught in the middle, but you didn't ask about that, now did you?

So far as the death penalty, once again that life was given, not taken. It is well understood that certain crimes are so against the morals our society holds to that if you commit them and get caught, you may be killed. One of the requirements to getting the death penalty is that you be of sound enough mind at the time the crime was committed to understand this. If one cannot abide by these rules, there are many countries that do not allow the killing of those who commit heinous crimes and all are welcome to denounce American citizenship and relocate to one of those countries. When someone does commit a capitol offence knowing all of this, they volunteer their life; it is implied in the committing of the crime.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:00 PM
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Originally posted by TTHGriff
How can you be Pro-Life and support the death penalty and the war?


Prolife to me is that every life is here for a reason, they deserve the same chance as you or me. Supporting the death penalty doesn't conflict with prolife if one considers that those who recieve the "penalty" blew their chance, big time (I won't go into detains, just use your imagination). As for the war, when all of this got started over a decade ago all were in favor, and today when it went "mainstream" again (come on, it never really ended, don't be so nieve, because in truth it dates back farther), a huge majority were still in favor of the removal of Saddam, his regime and sons.



Originally posted by TTHGriff
Why don't you organize to stop other kinds of killing of innocents?


Who says I didn't, why havn't you?



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:06 PM
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Isn't hypocracy grand?
It would be nice to find out how many of the pro-lifers voted for a war president. I smell a poll coming on!

And I beg to differ. They are one and the same. A life is a life. You can't have it both ways. If you vote for a war president, then you advocate the death of innocents for a greater "good". Abortion is no different as it relates to the "war" in the bedroom. An innocent "casualty". As uncouth as that sounds it is no different. War and abortion are for children that don't know how to play well together. If you think killing under any circumstances is OK....then you are pro-choice, not pro-life. Pretty cut and dry.


[edit on 5-12-2004 by antipigopolist]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:26 PM
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The whole issue is drenched in grey to me. I think the case that women use abortion as a form of birth control is WAY overstated. I personally believe that a human being has total dominion over their own body, including whatever is inside it/part of it. This war is crap and everyone else in the world and a good bit of the U.S. knows it. I respect every soldiers decision to serve, period. I don't agree with the way our men and women are used to perpetuate the agenda of the few powerful interests in this country.
People who have "blown their chance" are still humans. If you truly believe that life is precious they should be given a chance to try to balance the scales back by being a positive influence in the community. This doesn't mean they should go free, just that we can figure out more creative and humane wasy to deal withcriminals. I dont need the state to kill people. to protect me. (in all reality, if anything, i should be protected from the state)
Lock em up and try to rehabilitate them so they can serve a purpose.


[edit on 5-12-2004 by TTHGriff]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR

Originally posted by TTHGriff
How can you be Pro-Life and support the death penalty and the war?


Prolife to me is that every life is here for a reason, they deserve the same chance as you or me. Supporting the death penalty doesn't conflict with prolife if one considers that those who recieve the "penalty" blew their chance, big time (I won't go into detains, just use your imagination). As for the war, when all of this got started over a decade ago all were in favor, and today when it went "mainstream" again (come on, it never really ended, don't be so nieve, because in truth it dates back farther), a huge majority were still in favor of the removal of Saddam, his regime and sons.



Originally posted by TTHGriff
Why don't you organize to stop other kinds of killing of innocents?


Who says I didn't, why havn't you?



I don't claim to care. I don't care what other people do. I didn't give one sh** about Saddam and I still dont. If he attacked our country then I say we destroy him.. otherwise, we should be cleaning up our own back yard.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by antipigopolist
Isn't hypocracy grand?
It would be nice to find out how many of the pro-lifers voted for a war president. I smell a poll coming on!


Or how many anti-war liberals support abortion?

Says something about each sides ability to see shades of grey with respect to their own cause, but when it is something they are opposed to - it's all a matter of black and white.

Hypocracy knows no bounds.

B.

[edit on 12/5/04 by Bleys]


Odd

posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 08:44 AM
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We are America. The people we blow up are the political and moral enemies of America.

What confuses me is how you can come in here and tell us we're hypocrites, but you believe the opposite of what we do: you support abortion, and oppose the war and the death penalty.

To me, it seems that a fetus is a tad more innocent than a murderer or a person that is willing to take up arms against the nation in which I live.

And before you berate me for supporting America unquestioningly, I'll tell you this: I live here, and the better this nation does, the better I do. Root for the home team if doing differently is going to get you shot.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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Originally posted by Bleys

Or how many anti-war liberals support abortion?

Hypocracy knows no bounds.

B.

[edit on 12/5/04 by Bleys]


How very true. And just to be clear here...I belong to no party. I will not vote for any lying, backroom dealing, profiteering, wannabe CEO of America. I love it when partisan people attack assuming I belong to either one of the antiquated silly parties. I was replying to his question. Woulda saw that had you slowed the hate abit, ODD.


As far as I'm concerned....

Kill the two party system!
Power to the people!


[edit on 6-12-2004 by antipigopolist]



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Odd
We are America. The people we blow up are the political and moral enemies of America.

What confuses me is how you can come in here and tell us we're hypocrites, but you believe the opposite of what we do: you support abortion, and oppose the war and the death penalty.

To me, it seems that a fetus is a tad more innocent than a murderer or a person that is willing to take up arms against the nation in which I live.

And before you berate me for supporting America unquestioningly, I'll tell you this: I live here, and the better this nation does, the better I do. Root for the home team if doing differently is going to get you shot.


Breath Odd Breath....you read too much into my post!



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 02:33 PM
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What seems to be forgotten in the consideration of the death penalty, is what it makes us as a society...

It's like when you say please and thank you, you don't say them because you nessicarily respect the person your talking to, you say it because you respect yourself. People who get around the place acting like arrogant SOB's demonstrate their own low self asteem first and foremost.

When we as a society resort to killing as a means of justice, it means we quit, we've failed and we've lost control of our society through civilised means.

I for one beleive we are better than that...

That regardless of provocation we will not resort to killing our own, that our society always protect us according to the rule of law.The cost of this desicion is that many who obviously deserve to die for what they have done, will live in permanent incarceration.

It is the cost of considering ourselves to be civilised.





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