Arizona-9 Year old girl kills gun instructer

This instructor used poor judgment and paid the ultimate price.

I agree that we should all feel very sorry for the little girl who was lead into this situation.

You know what happens more often than accidents with firearms? Someone has a few drinks, gets behind the wheel of a car, and ends up severely injuring or killing themselves and others. Should we call for a ban on vehicles because some people are idiots? Don't even tell me that I'm "comparing apples to oranges" because more children die in auto related accidents every year than from gun related accidents or crimes..

So if you people are all concerned with saving lives, and not just exploiting every tragic incident you can to promote and further your own irrational fears, why aren't you asking for cars to be banned? Surely more idiots misuse vehicles than firearms..

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Biigs
i dont think any teens should have a large weapon

a .22 and nothing larger till your 16+

I was 6ft and 200 lbs when I was 14. I could handle any firearm just fine.

thats why said that not all young people are included but most? most are too small.

how can anyone possibly justify an uzi in the hands of a child, gun safely obviously but you dont use a sub machine gun for that

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: NavyDoc
I was 6ft and 200 lbs when I was 14.

Was your house next to Three Mile Island?

Good peasant genes. Helped me buy beer in highschool too.

originally posted by: roadgravel

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before

Not buying that one. There are some screwed up people out there that see firearms as toys, status symbols. etc.

How can you speak for all gun owners. Just look at youtube, etc and see what some people do.

And for every idiot that posts youtube videos of themselves doing wheelies down the highway on their motorcycles there are thousands who just quietly use them to do to work and back. You cannot judge a whole community based on some youtube attention whores.

originally posted by: vonclod
a reply to: NavyDoc
Thats a ridiculous analogy..swimming vs guns..ya makes sense, millions of children swim probably daily on a statistical basis..how many handle weapons on a daily basis? I understand what your saying but useing analogies like that do nothing for your cause.
furthermore to compare a swimming pool whos only purpose is physical exercise/entertainment to something that is designed to punch holes into things with great velocity causing death or injury specificaly is not a credible comparison. Im more or less pro gun.
If you want to make comparisons do it with other weapons.
Just saying.

It is not a "stupid" analogy but a very logical one. Nothing in life is absent risk and nothing is 100% safe. However, when viewing something as unsafe to the point of demanding laws about it, one has to use logic, not emotion. We see people demanding a law that keeps a child out of a gun range due to one death in decades but thousands of children die in swimming pools. Where is the inherent risk vs benefit?

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: roadgravel

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before

Not buying that one. There are some screwed up people out there that see firearms as toys, status symbols. etc.

How can you speak for all gun owners. Just look at youtube, etc and see what some people do.

And for every idiot that posts youtube videos of themselves doing wheelies down the highway on their motorcycles there are thousands who just quietly use them to do to work and back. You cannot judge a whole community based on some youtube attention whores.

I didn't, you did. There are safe and not so safe gun owners. You claimed they were all good. Reread my post. I didn't claim all as anything.

Try again.

Well, after visiting here and other sites, I see now. This gun issue is one that has not been high on my list. But, I will get involved in it now with letters to my congressman, friends and families. It is because of people like NavyDoc that laws have to be made. No compromise from the like. No, it is not acceptable for children in the United States to have automatic weapons. I will back legislation that will fix that.

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: roadgravel

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before

Not buying that one. There are some screwed up people out there that see firearms as toys, status symbols. etc.

How can you speak for all gun owners. Just look at youtube, etc and see what some people do.

And for every idiot that posts youtube videos of themselves doing wheelies down the highway on their motorcycles there are thousands who just quietly use them to do to work and back. You cannot judge a whole community based on some youtube attention whores.

I didn't, you did. There are safe and not so safe gun owners. You claimed they were all good. Reread my post. I didn't claim all as anything.

Try again.

I said the majority were safe and the statistics prove that out. There are idiots in every group and every walk of life and every gun owner here has pointed out that the instructor and the parents were idiots for what they did, so I don't know what more you want.

Her brother can no longer boast about his killstreak on call of duty...

on a serious note though it's tragic and at least two families have been turned upside down. A military weapon does not belong in the hands of a child.

originally posted by: MOMof3
Well, after visiting here and other sites, I see now. This gun issue is one that has not been high on my list. But, I will get involved in it now with letters to my congressman, friends and families. It is because of people like NavyDoc that laws have to be made. No compromise from the like. No, it is not acceptable for children in the United States to have automatic weapons. I will back legislation that will fix that.

Pretty stupid call out of you. I and every gun owner here has said that what happened was stupid and irresponsible. Nobody has justified this incident at all, so put your over emotional hysteria in your back pocket and take a spin. What we have pointed out, logically and correctly, that this incident is so incredibly rare that it is an extreme anomaly and no new legislation will do anything at all. Since you called me out by name, what evil thing do I do or recommend that I need laws made against my evil self? Be specific.

LOL. It is already illegal for children to own automatic weapons and it is very hard for adults to own them to the point where they are pretty much illegal in most of the country. What are you going to do? Make something more illegal?

originally posted by: Biigs

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: Biigs
i dont think any teens should have a large weapon

a .22 and nothing larger till your 16+

I was 6ft and 200 lbs when I was 14. I could handle any firearm just fine.

thats why said that not all young people are included but most? most are too small.

With proper and gradual instruction in a safe environment that is tailored to the individual, young people can safely be taught to use firearms and hunt and shoot skeet and compete in sport. Start with an unloaded BB gun. When they master that safely, then give him some BBs. When he masters that safely, graduate him to a single shot .22 rifle. WHen he masters that safely, go to a .410 shotgun if he wants to duck hunt or a .30-30 if he wants to take a deer, and when he masters that safely go on to the next, etc. you get my drift.

Giving a little kid a UZI, especially one that has never held any firearm before, for a novelty, the first time out, is stupid and irresponsible with an obvious consequence.

Does that mean that young people should never handle a firearm until they are 21? No. Does this mean that more laws need to be made? For a once in a lifetime incident? That's inane.

What it does illustrate the importance of safety, vigilance, and common sense.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: roadgravel

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before

Not buying that one. There are some screwed up people out there that see firearms as toys, status symbols. etc.

How can you speak for all gun owners. Just look at youtube, etc and see what some people do.

And for every idiot that posts youtube videos of themselves doing wheelies down the highway on their motorcycles there are thousands who just quietly use them to do to work and back. You cannot judge a whole community based on some youtube attention whores.

I didn't, you did. There are safe and not so safe gun owners. You claimed they were all good. Reread my post. I didn't claim all as anything.

Try again.

I said the majority were safe and the statistics prove that out. There are idiots in every group and every walk of life and every gun owner here has pointed out that the instructor and the parents were idiots for what they did, so I don't know what more you want.

You said...

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before. ... We feel the same as we did now.

No majority in that statement...

I am leaving there...take care.

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
This instructor used poor judgment and paid the ultimate price.

I agree that we should all feel very sorry for the little girl who was lead into this situation.

You know what happens more often than accidents with firearms? Someone has a few drinks, gets behind the wheel of a car, and ends up severely injuring or killing themselves and others. Should we call for a ban on vehicles because some people are idiots? Don't even tell me that I'm "comparing apples to oranges" because more children die in auto related accidents every year than from gun related accidents or crimes..

So if you people are all concerned with saving lives, and not just exploiting every tragic incident you can to promote and further your own irrational fears, why aren't you asking for cars to be banned? Surely more idiots misuse vehicles than firearms..

I would agree. Except you wouldn't put a child behind the wheel of a car so why give them a weapon designed to kill?

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: roadgravel

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before

Not buying that one. There are some screwed up people out there that see firearms as toys, status symbols. etc.

How can you speak for all gun owners. Just look at youtube, etc and see what some people do.

And for every idiot that posts youtube videos of themselves doing wheelies down the highway on their motorcycles there are thousands who just quietly use them to do to work and back. You cannot judge a whole community based on some youtube attention whores.

I didn't, you did. There are safe and not so safe gun owners. You claimed they were all good. Reread my post. I didn't claim all as anything.

Try again.

I said the majority were safe and the statistics prove that out. There are idiots in every group and every walk of life and every gun owner here has pointed out that the instructor and the parents were idiots for what they did, so I don't know what more you want.

You said...

No, there isn't "worship" of guns. Gun owners feel the same thing about guns now as before. ... We feel the same as we did now.

No majority in that statement...

I am leaving there...take care.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Firing ranges should not be offering automatic weapons to anyone under 16. If it takes legislation to get it done, I will back that. I have son in laws who have no problem getting any weapon they want. No, it is not 'easy', like buying a toy, but I don't want it to be easy to get automatics. The "guns don't kill, people do" has proven to be a lie. That child did not kill, the gun did in this case. But it will take years of therapy to convince of her of that.

originally posted by: sg1642

originally posted by: TinkerHaus
This instructor used poor judgment and paid the ultimate price.

I agree that we should all feel very sorry for the little girl who was lead into this situation.

You know what happens more often than accidents with firearms? Someone has a few drinks, gets behind the wheel of a car, and ends up severely injuring or killing themselves and others. Should we call for a ban on vehicles because some people are idiots? Don't even tell me that I'm "comparing apples to oranges" because more children die in auto related accidents every year than from gun related accidents or crimes..

So if you people are all concerned with saving lives, and not just exploiting every tragic incident you can to promote and further your own irrational fears, why aren't you asking for cars to be banned? Surely more idiots misuse vehicles than firearms..

I would agree. Except you wouldn't put a child behind the wheel of a car so why give them a weapon designed to kill?

My daughter got behind the wheel of the car and I let her drive it two feet down the driveway to get it off the hose. It tickled her pink and not a single injury occurred. Of course I was beside her and holding the wheel with one foot on the brake.

I agree that giving the UZI to the kid for the novelty of it was the wrong thing to do. OTOH, thousands of kids her age plink with .22s with their parents supervision in a controlled condition every day without a single injury.

a reply to: NavyDoc

OK, one last thing. I actually agree with most of your position. But there are careless gun owners, even if they are the minority. They are the one getting the anti-gun crowd up in arms and giving regular owners grief. It's obvious to most open minded folks, like yourself.

I think the police are doing more to help gun ownership then tighter gun control. Who would have thought.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Well well. Another child with a Uzi

www.nbcnews.com...

Kids killing kids with guns

www.nydailynews.com...

Other kids killed with guns

www.theguardian.com...

Kids in The U.S. are 17 times more likely to be killed by guns than in any other developed country. And the U.S. accounts for 75% of children murdered in the developed world.

www.slate.com...

What a hell of a place to live.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: NavyDoc

OK, one last thing. I actually agree with most of your position. But there are careless gun owners, even if they are the minority. They are the one getting the anti-gun crowd up in arms and giving regular owners grief. It's obvious to most open minded folks, like yourself.

Okay, I can agree with that. There are some idiots out there and we do good to call them out on it because they make us look bad. There is an old saying in Naval Aviation: one "awe #" cancels a thousand "attaboys." People don't focus on the hundreds of thousands of lawful and safe gun owners, they dwell on the one idiot.

As a second amendment advocate, I get very angry when I see youtube videos of morons actin irresponsibly. They give our crowd a bad name and the anti-gunners more ammo. We do need to police our own and that is a fact.