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Weaponizing the IRS: The blackmail of 77,000 international banks

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posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 02:14 AM
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It never ceases to amaze me really; the depths to which my country will sink in order to manipulate the world.

In the course of research concerning our soon-to-be first child, and whether U.S. citizenship could actually be more of a burden than it's worth.. ( see thread here: www.abovetopsecret.com... ) I was introduced to some lovely new legislation known as FATCA.

As usual, it was something slipped into an unrelated bill under the auspices of helping Americans...

americansabroad.org...


FATCA was initially introduced to target those who evade paying U.S. taxes by hiding assets in undisclosed foreign bank accounts. With such a noble goal, and with the strong backing of the Administration, Congress quickly drafted the FATCA legislation and quietly slipped it into the HIRE (Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment) bill signed into law by President Obama in March 2010. Most members of Congress are unaware of the unintended negative consequences this legislation will have when fully implemented in 2014.


americansabroad.org...


Many Americans residing overseas are reporting banking lock-out. Many foreign financial institutions have simply chosen to eliminate their US citizens and US person client basis in order to minimize their exposure to FATCA reporting requirements, withholding fees and potential penalties.


That's right, many foreign banks, brokers, insurers etc are simply DENYING SERVICE to American customers rather than let the IRS run amok in their records. I can't say I blame them, but now living, working and especially running a business for expat Americans has become more than a little difficult and tedious. They really seem to think they OWN American citizens (oh and Greencard holders too!)

I think it's clear now the IRS has been weaponized, both domestically and internationally.

I had serious plans to move overseas and raise our child outside the US (for his/her own good in my opinion) and this could make that seriously difficult, if not impossible.

Furthermore, I think the broader scope of this is to use American citizens abroad as sort of Trojan Horses to get access to banking records for thousands of banks:

77,000 foreign banks share details on U.S. account holders in IRS crackdown:

www.pbs.org...
www.forbes.com...

The cliffnotes: If a Foreign Financial institution refuses to do exactly as the IRS demands, the IRS can blackmail them by holding/withholding 30% of any assets/transactions that institution has in the U.S.

As it sits right now, my future financial weapon.. oops, I mean CHILD will be in violation of the IRS if he/she doesn't file US income tax forms WHETHER or NOT they EVER set foot on US soil in their life. EVEN IF BORN IN UK! And if they ever decide to visit or immigrate here, could be subject to $10,000+ fines, arrest and who knows what else.....

I loved this country growing up, but it feels like the US doesn't love its people much these days... Actually it feels like the walls are closing in and I need to get out before it's too late...
edit on 27-8-2014 by 8675309jenny because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 02:34 AM
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I hear that international banks want to do business with America because of steep IRS and policy from adminstrative actions from DC. I haven't had time to explore your post completely but I will but if it means anything to you bro thanks for your insight and time posting bro.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 02:46 AM
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a reply to: 8675309jenny

I don't see why you are so surprised at these tactics, the central banks are all ultimately run by rothschild so the ordinary banks will follow whatever he decrees - the unelected emporer of the world.

It does seem thoughto be the death throes of desperation by whomever engineered this through and, as you say many in the administration may decide at a later date that this needs to be repealed or doctored into something acceptable.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 03:14 AM
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originally posted by: 8675309jenny

As it sits right now, my future financial weapon.. oops, I mean CHILD will be in violation of the IRS if he/she doesn't file US income tax forms WHETHER or NOT they EVER set foot on US soil in their life. EVEN IF BORN IN UK! And if they ever decide to visit or immigrate here, could be subject to $10,000+ fines, arrest and who knows what else.....

I loved this country growing up, but it feels like the US doesn't love its people much these days... Actually it feels like the walls are closing in and I need to get out before it's too late...


this is something that has many Canadians worried. there are many Canadians that have an American parent, some don't even know about it. yet even though they were born, and raised in Canada, as CANADIAN citizens, the US still considers them citizens. apparently just having ONE American grandparent may be enough to be considered by the American Government to be an American citizen (though it seems you must act to do it, but then again when has a little inconvenient thing like that stopped the government), and thus responsible for paying US taxes. on top of their other country's tax? talk about unfair taxation, without representation, isn't that what the rebellion that formed the US was about?


Birth abroad to one United States citizen[edit]
A person born on or after November 14, 1986, is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[9]

The person's parents were married at time of birth
One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person in question was born
The citizen parent lived at least five years in the United States before the child's birth
A minimum of two of these five years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
INA 301(g) makes additional provisions to satisfy the physical-presence requirements for periods citizens spent abroad in "honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization." Additionally citizens, who spent time living abroad as the "dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person" in any of the previously mentioned organizations can also be counted.

A person's record of birth abroad, if registered with a U.S. consulate or embassy, is proof of citizenship. Such a person may also apply for a passport or a Certificate of Citizenship to have a record of citizenship. Such documentation is often useful to prove citizenship in lieu of the availability of an American birth certificate.

Different rules apply for persons born abroad to one U.S. citizen before November 14, 1986. United States law on this subject changed multiple times throughout the twentieth century, and the law is applicable as it existed at the time of the individual's birth.

For persons born between December 24, 1952 and November 14, 1986, a person is a U.S. citizen if all of the following are true:[9]

The person's parents were married at the time of birth
One of the person's parents was a U.S. citizen when the person was born
The citizen parent lived at least ten years in the United States before the child's birth;
A minimum of 5 of these 10 years in the United States were after the citizen parent's 14th birthday.
For persons born out of wedlock, the person is a U.S. citizen if all the following apply:

the mother was a U.S. citizen at the time of the person's birth and
the mother was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the person's birth.[10] (See link for those born to a U.S. father out of wedlock)[9]

Expeditious naturalization of children[edit]
Effective April 1, 1995, a child born outside the U.S. to a U.S. citizen parent, if not already a citizen by birth because the parent does not meet the residency requirement (see above), may qualify for expeditious naturalization based on the physical presence of the child's grandparent in the U.S. In general the grandparent should have spent five years in the U.S., at least two of which were after the age of 14.

The process of naturalization, including the oath of allegiance, must be completed before the child's 18th birthday. It is not necessary for the child to be admitted to the U.S. as a lawful permanent resident.
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 03:22 AM
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Yeah you guys get it pretty bad, I still live as an Expat in Asia and Americans are the only people I know of who their government taxes even while working OS.

Its actually disgusting in my opinion, I know quite a few people who have given up their citizenship to avoid this



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 03:30 AM
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One guy had an account and was fined 150+% over the total worth of the account. There is a thread on ATS about it. I live overseas and for a US citizen to open an account it is just not worth the hassle to me or the bank. You can use ATM cards and get charged almost $2 for every transaction... In other words get a chunk of change when you do the transaction. Even shipping money form the states to overseas cost around $25 for the sending bank to overseas transfer bank which is another $20.. So it cost about $45 total.. I would have pulled everything long ago if it were not for the tax penalty I would incur from the withdrawal of the stateside retirement accounts.. ... What gets me are the sovereign nations putting up with the US B.S. which many are not they just refuse to service a US citizen's banking needs.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 04:19 AM
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people in Canada have pretty much overwhelmed the US consulate in Toronto to rid themselves of American citizenship. creating a major backlog. not only is this unfair taxation, it is also expensive to have even a simple tax return filed for the US, $1,000-1,500, just for a simple return, something that many people can not afford, forget the actual extra tax. and getting rid of your citizenship is not cheap either, you could be looking at $15,000-$20,000 for an ordinary person, by the time you are done something only the rich can really afford. yet there are only 300,000 that identified themselves as American citizens according to the 2006 survey, yet the U.S. State Department estimates that about a million people considered American under U.S. law (who may also be Canadian citizens) live there.

i suspect the same can be said by people around the world. since there are a heck of alot of American ex-pats running around having families all over the world.


A controversial tax deal with the United States, under which Canadian banks agree to try to find U.S. citizen clients and report them to the IRS, using the CRA as an intermediary, took effect July 1.

But many dual citizens in southern Ontario aren’t waiting to be found – they’ve decided to shed U.S. citizenship. In the process, they’ve created a backlog at the U.S. consulate in Toronto that stretches into the third week of January 2015.

Nightingale says he charges $1,000-$1,500 for “very simple” U.S. returns.

“Filing U.S. tax returns is complex, and the reason is that everything that happens to a U.S. citizen in Canada is foreign. People who are able to do their Canadian tax returns easily and relatively cheaply, once you add the foreign layer on to it, ordinary people have problems that need to be dealt with sophisticated tax people.”

he U.S. State Department estimates that about a million people considered American under U.S. law (who may also be Canadian citizens) live here. In theory, all of them, unless their income falls under minimum levels, are supposed to file tax returns with the IRS, and report their bank accounts to an arm of the U.S. Treasury Department called the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, on pain of heavy fines.

Canada’s 2006 census found about 300,000 people in Canada self-identifying as U.S. citizens. (The difference may be accounted for by Canadians who were born in the United States, or who have an American parent, but don’t consider themselves American.)

In the meantime, Nightingale warns, the tax side of renouncing U.S. citizenship can be expensive:

“If somebody comes to us and says, ‘I’m a U.S. citizen, I’ve never filed tax returns, I’ve got a pretty ordinary life, but I’ve got an RRSP, an RESP, a TFSA and some mutual funds, and can you prepare all my returns and get me ready for expatriation?’, by the time we do all that, it’s not hard to spend $15,000 or $20,000 for a fairly ordinary person.”
globalnews.ca...

you know what really strikes me is that the people in the US aren't outright panicking between this scam they are pushing onto other countries and their people, as well as all the fuss about companies trying to move their tax Base out of the US. after all why such a fuss about these things from the government if they didn't feel they were in dire straights? seems to me like an act of desperation trying to grasp at any money they think they can steal. that does not bode well at all for a government if they need to resort to blackmailing people and countries trying to steal cash off those who have possibly never even set foot in the US, don't vote, don't have American passports, heck don't even have a US social security number or ever even thought about moving to the US. has the US ever looked for these people to try to insure they vote? or even ask them if they want to be a citizen? no? then why decide to steal their money now? the only reason is DESPERATION.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 04:41 AM
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One thing to be thankful for, American citizens are not sent to the collusium, yet! (that place in Rome where gladiators fought each other to the death)



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 04:51 AM
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originally posted by: pikestaff
One thing to be thankful for, American citizens are not sent to the collusium, yet! (that place in Rome where gladiators fought each other to the death)


don't need a Colosseum, we have reality TV, news, other TV shows, computers and video games to keep the masses entertained and occupied. that is what gladiatorial games were for.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 05:03 AM
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if you don't have it in your hand it isn't yours??
I understand the need for using banks I mean the bills have to be paid and such but I think that at t his point the bulk of your money (unless you are like most of us and barely make enough pay the bills ) is safer under your mattress!

they're desparate and searching high and low for every cent they can get their greedy little hands on! and not just in the US. if things get bad enough they will be raiding the IRAs and safe deposit boxes even. invest in food or solar panels or silver and gold things of value things that will be useful! because that money isn't gonna be worth the paper it's printed on soon!



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 05:04 AM
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IT GETS WORSE! My wife is now screwed too, simply because she married an American.....

Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA! Even if you are no longer a Green Card holder, they are still after you:

(From: www.irs.gov...)


"What if my green card has been taken by or given to someone in the U.S. government?

If you’ve surrendered your green card, this doesn’t necessarily mean that your status as a lawful permanent resident has changed. Your status will not change unless and unt il you get an offic ial not i ce from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS ) that there has been a final administrative or judicial determination that your green card has been revoked or abandoned. You can contact the USCIS to check the status of your card.

What if I have been absent from the U.S. for a long period of time?

Your tax responsibilities as a green card holder do not change if you are absent from the U.S. for any period of time. Your income tax filing requirement and possible obligation to pay U.S. taxes continue until you either surrender your green card or there has been a final administrative or judicial determination that your green card has been revoked or abandoned. Therefore, even if the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) no longer recognizes the validity of your green card because you have been absent from the United States for a certain period of time or the green card is more than ten years old, you must continue to file tax returns until there has been a final determination that is not subject to appeal that your green card has been revoked or abandoned."



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 05:05 AM
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a reply to: generik

I was thinking more in the line that our cities were the Colosseum and the cops were the hungry lions
and the spectators are home watching the evening talk shows



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 05:16 AM
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originally posted by: generik
people in Canada have pretty much overwhelmed the US consulate in Toronto to rid themselves of American citizenship. creating a major backlog. not only is this unfair taxation, it is also expensive to have even a simple tax return filed for the US, $1,000-1,500, just for a simple return, something that many people can not afford, forget the actual extra tax. and getting rid of your citizenship is not cheap either, you could be looking at $15,000-$20,000 for an ordinary person, by the time you are done something only the rich can really afford. yet there are only 300,000 that identified themselves as American citizens according to the 2006 survey, yet the U.S. State Department estimates that about a million people considered American under U.S. law (who may also be Canadian citizens) live there.

i suspect the same can be said by people around the world. since there are a heck of alot of American ex-pats running around having families all over the world.


A controversial tax deal with the United States, under which Canadian banks agree to try to find U.S. citizen clients and report them to the IRS, using the CRA as an intermediary, took effect July 1.

But many dual citizens in southern Ontario aren’t waiting to be found – they’ve decided to shed U.S. citizenship. In the process, they’ve created a backlog at the U.S. consulate in Toronto that stretches into the third week of January 2015.

Nightingale says he charges $1,000-$1,500 for “very simple” U.S. returns.

“Filing U.S. tax returns is complex, and the reason is that everything that happens to a U.S. citizen in Canada is foreign. People who are able to do their Canadian tax returns easily and relatively cheaply, once you add the foreign layer on to it, ordinary people have problems that need to be dealt with sophisticated tax people.”

he U.S. State Department estimates that about a million people considered American under U.S. law (who may also be Canadian citizens) live here. In theory, all of them, unless their income falls under minimum levels, are supposed to file tax returns with the IRS, and report their bank accounts to an arm of the U.S. Treasury Department called the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, on pain of heavy fines.

Canada’s 2006 census found about 300,000 people in Canada self-identifying as U.S. citizens. (The difference may be accounted for by Canadians who were born in the United States, or who have an American parent, but don’t consider themselves American.)

In the meantime, Nightingale warns, the tax side of renouncing U.S. citizenship can be expensive:

“If somebody comes to us and says, ‘I’m a U.S. citizen, I’ve never filed tax returns, I’ve got a pretty ordinary life, but I’ve got an RRSP, an RESP, a TFSA and some mutual funds, and can you prepare all my returns and get me ready for expatriation?’, by the time we do all that, it’s not hard to spend $15,000 or $20,000 for a fairly ordinary person.”
globalnews.ca...

you know what really strikes me is that the people in the US aren't outright panicking between this scam they are pushing onto other countries and their people, as well as all the fuss about companies trying to move their tax Base out of the US. after all why such a fuss about these things from the government if they didn't feel they were in dire straights? seems to me like an act of desperation trying to grasp at any money they think they can steal. that does not bode well at all for a government if they need to resort to blackmailing people and countries trying to steal cash off those who have possibly never even set foot in the US, don't vote, don't have American passports, heck don't even have a US social security number or ever even thought about moving to the US. has the US ever looked for these people to try to insure they vote? or even ask them if they want to be a citizen? no? then why decide to steal their money now? the only reason is DESPERATION.



WHAT THE F?!?!?!?

UNREAL.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Yeah you guys get it pretty bad, I still live as an Expat in Asia and Americans are the only people I know of who their government taxes even while working OS.


That's certainly not true.

I know a lot of people from the UK, Australia and New Zealand who have worked in various places around ht world (Mid East, Far east, Eastern Europe, US, and reciprocally in each others countries) and sometimes been required to pay domestic taxation even if they are relatively lone term expats (5 years or more)

It is a complicated business and anyone thinking of doing it would be well advised to take professoinal advice on setting their affairs in order.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 05:41 AM
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originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
Yeah you guys get it pretty bad, I still live as an Expat in Asia and Americans are the only people I know of who their government taxes even while working OS.


That's certainly not true.

I know a lot of people from the UK, Australia and New Zealand who have worked in various places around ht world (Mid East, Far east, Eastern Europe, US, and reciprocally in each others countries) and sometimes been required to pay domestic taxation even if they are relatively lone term expats (5 years or more)

It is a complicated business and anyone thinking of doing it would be well advised to take professoinal advice on setting their affairs in order.


They will not be subject to UK, NZ, Aus. INCOME tax on their overseas occupation though, only subject to income derived in their country of citizenship, such as stocks/bonds, rental property, capital gains etc.


The only countries in the world to maintain a citizenship based tax scheme are Eritrea and the U.S.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 06:59 AM
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It seems to me this issue effects so many people because its the first step in something. That other thread said the US will tax you if you have anyome within 10 generations. Getting panicked and getting rid of your "citizenship " that you never wanted or didn't know you had seems like a waste of time.

Has anyone here heard of babies being born here and then living overseas? Just the birth of the baby is here and then mother and.child go home. It has a name, I forget what it is. I read an article that said its big business. This article also pointed out that these citizens aren't being raised with American values and yet have the same voting rights etc due to being born here.

I'm wondering if these tax laws are trying to find these hidden citizens.



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 07:38 AM
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An amazing story.

It's even more amazing when one steps backs and looks at the 'exceptions' to this. For example, Pro sports, movie production-actors and actresses that work in Canada but don't get double taxed!

Would anyone sign to play with the Blue Jays if they had to pay taxes in both nations? Nope! Same for the NHL, and NBA.

I almost went to work for a Haliburton subsidiary as a driver during the gulf war in Kuwait as they were tax exempt in the U.S.up to $80,000 per year with all expenses paid during the employment!

This looks very selective and targeted to ex-pats first and foremost.

I have a relative who has lived in Canada almost all her life and was forced to relinquish her U.S. citizenship as a quick fix.

On the other end of this, I met a billionaire who fled the U.S.-with his assets- to Mexico to avoid taxes in the U.S.-Mexico, of course, welcoming the capital input from a new 'citizen'.

Stepping further back from all this. the IRS has been given 'carte blanche' by the Obama administration to enact every 'wish-list' item it desires-as has almost every gov't department in the U.S.- in a quid pro quo that allows the administration to proceed with their own agenda without restraint.

The IRS is used now for political motivations, targeting groups that aren't pro-administration as well as opposition party members and affiliates.

The same, if to a lesser degree, applies to education, EPA, DHS, so on.

All are getting their myopic 'wish-list' regulations in exchange for support to the executive branch.

I do not see any political party/ideology able to fix this.

Maybe the preppers are right, after all......



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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originally posted by: generik
people in Canada have pretty much overwhelmed the US consulate in Toronto to rid themselves of American citizenship. creating a major backlog. not only is this unfair taxation, it is also expensive to have even a simple tax return filed for the US, $1,000-1,500, just for a simple return, something that many people can not afford, forget the actual extra tax. and getting rid of your citizenship is not cheap either, you could be looking at $15,000-$20,000 for an ordinary person, by the time you are done something only the rich can really afford. yet there are only 300,000 that identified themselves as American citizens according to the 2006 survey, yet the U.S. State Department estimates that about a million people considered American under U.S. law (who may also be Canadian citizens) live there.

i suspect the same can be said by people around the world. since there are a heck of alot of American ex-pats running around having families all over the world.


A controversial tax deal with the United States, under which Canadian banks agree to try to find U.S. citizen clients and report them to the IRS, using the CRA as an intermediary, took effect July 1.

But many dual citizens in southern Ontario aren’t waiting to be found – they’ve decided to shed U.S. citizenship. In the process, they’ve created a backlog at the U.S. consulate in Toronto that stretches into the third week of January 2015.

Nightingale says he charges $1,000-$1,500 for “very simple” U.S. returns.

“Filing U.S. tax returns is complex, and the reason is that everything that happens to a U.S. citizen in Canada is foreign. People who are able to do their Canadian tax returns easily and relatively cheaply, once you add the foreign layer on to it, ordinary people have problems that need to be dealt with sophisticated tax people.”

he U.S. State Department estimates that about a million people considered American under U.S. law (who may also be Canadian citizens) live here. In theory, all of them, unless their income falls under minimum levels, are supposed to file tax returns with the IRS, and report their bank accounts to an arm of the U.S. Treasury Department called the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, on pain of heavy fines.

Canada’s 2006 census found about 300,000 people in Canada self-identifying as U.S. citizens. (The difference may be accounted for by Canadians who were born in the United States, or who have an American parent, but don’t consider themselves American.)

In the meantime, Nightingale warns, the tax side of renouncing U.S. citizenship can be expensive:

“If somebody comes to us and says, ‘I’m a U.S. citizen, I’ve never filed tax returns, I’ve got a pretty ordinary life, but I’ve got an RRSP, an RESP, a TFSA and some mutual funds, and can you prepare all my returns and get me ready for expatriation?’, by the time we do all that, it’s not hard to spend $15,000 or $20,000 for a fairly ordinary person.”
globalnews.ca...

you know what really strikes me is that the people in the US aren't outright panicking between this scam they are pushing onto other countries and their people, as well as all the fuss about companies trying to move their tax Base out of the US. after all why such a fuss about these things from the government if they didn't feel they were in dire straights? seems to me like an act of desperation trying to grasp at any money they think they can steal. that does not bode well at all for a government if they need to resort to blackmailing people and countries trying to steal cash off those who have possibly never even set foot in the US, don't vote, don't have American passports, heck don't even have a US social security number or ever even thought about moving to the US. has the US ever looked for these people to try to insure they vote? or even ask them if they want to be a citizen? no? then why decide to steal their money now? the only reason is DESPERATION.


It May be desperation, but the US government has been stealing and lying, and riping off foreign people far more than its own for a looong time!
I say just business as usual for the scum.....



posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 12:08 PM
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Perhaps hedging a currency collapse?






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