ISIS are not doing this for islam!

originally posted by: OpinionatedB
a reply to: grandmakdw

people use the crusaders, not as a condemnation, but as a comparison. When people begin to say that Islam is evil and all Muslims need to be killed, or the religion is evil etc, then the crusades come up. Why? To show you, that NOT all Christians or all Muslims can be lumped together, it's not to condemn every christian.

The actions of the few never represent the many, yet, it seems people want to believe that. So perhaps instead I should ask, do the actions of the 1% represent you? I mean, you allow them to do whatever they want right... you agree the 1% should enslave the world?

That is the only point, was to show this clearly, that they don't represent all Muslims.

You misunderstood my point, it was exactly the same as your final sentence.

I was using the comparisons that non-Christians make: using wacko (so called Christians) and then generalizing that all Christians are like the wackos, or all Christians believe as the extremists do. (Westboro B. Church, anti abortion people who do rude and dangerous things to people, anti gay people who also do rude and dangerous things)
This is exactly the same as comparing ISIS to all Muslims.

Maybe someday people will learn not to judge the entire Mickey Mouse Club
by the actions of Brittany Spears in her mentally ill phase.

Maybe someday people will learn there are evil people in every group, there are mentally ill people in every group, in every country, of every race, of every ideology, of every religion. We should not judge everyone in a group on the basis of the evil and/or mentally deranged that exist in each and every group on earth.

Even families if one looks around have theirs, I admit my grandfather was a pimp during the depression, not proud of it for sure. But his actions do not represent who I am or who my children are or even who my father was. Should we judge all Democrats for the actions of the one politician who said all climate deniers should be killed? Should we blame all police for the act of one, we just saw the results of that in Ferguson. I could go on and on.

Now to the consequences of the evil and mentally ill in each group; and the responsibility of the group who is besmirched:

If these people say I represent "the entire Micky Mouse Club" (etc.) and shout it to the rooftops and wave a flag with mouse ears. Then it is up to the Mousekateers to not only publicly denounce them, but to do their utmost to try and stop them. Because it is the Mousekateers whose name will be dragged through the mud, rather they like it or not. The Donald Duck club members will be summarily dismissed by the extremist Mousekateers as not knowing what they are talking about, but the extremists who are denounced/publicly shamed/privately shamed/etc by the Mousekateers can not say the Mousekateers have no right to stop us.

It is only those "within group" who have the legitimacy in the eyes of extremists to stop what they are doing.
Those "outside group" in the eyes of extremists are simply fuel for hatred when they try and stop what the extremists are doing.

Therefore, it is imperative that the "within group" be the ones to do their very best to stop the extremists within their group from destroying the name and reputation of that group forever.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Do you realize that the Crusades are brought up in nearly every about Islam for the past 2 years I have been on ATS?

Its been happening longer than 2 years,

However, do you know why?

If you read the threads to know that this is always brought up you must realize why?

A majority of the time its a stupid reply because someone got defensive over an aggressive post that bears no resemblance to the thread topic other than its connected to Islam and that being something like a post at how Mohammed is a pedophile, Muslims kill their daughters or similar aggressive statements whether there is any fact or not to the statement its simply to derail the thread.

The comparisons of atrocities are always brought up because an OP being full of hate or a post that shows posters hate or is simply a derailing tactic.

In this short thread it starts with a vague post here and there and after a few pages it comes to this.

Surely others can see what I am talking about if you cant

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: grandmakdw

And this is the crap I'm talking about which we must elevate ourselves above...

I find it difficult that a Muslim can be so blinded to the truth of his own religion. ISIS is more Muslim than you!. As a Muslim you must have read the biography of your Prophet and what he got up too. ISIS are just following the example set by your own Prophet and doing the exact same thing he did, and there is no skirting around this. I haven't seen ISIS do anything your Prophet hasn't done, be it beheadings, crucifixtion, rape, murder (including children), ransoming slaves and fight the people of the book and the disbeliever. Or maybe your a new Muslim and haven't got to those bits yet?. But you probably have and choose to ignore your Prophets crime against humanity.

A know all who has probably never seen a Qu'ran in their life.

Don't feed the trolls,


I didn't get to that post by fishwhisperer but its exactly what I said in another post just prior to this one.

Its either a person filled with hate or an ignorant troll looking for scraps.

a reply to: grandmakdw

Maybe someday people will learn not to judge the entire Mickey Mouse Club
by the actions of Brittany Spears in her mentally ill phase.

Best quote of the thread.

a reply to: grandmakdw



Maybe someday people will learn there are evil people in every group, there are mentally ill people in every group, in every country, of every race, of every ideology, of every religion. We should not judge everyone in a group on the basis of the evil and/or mentally deranged that exist in each and every group on earth.



The difference is that one of these individuals founded a religion called Islam and that hordes have been following his examples ever since then !!. ISIS are just the latest in a long line, Boko Haram are another, Hamas and this list is just endless

originally posted by: fishwhisperer
a reply to: DarknStormy

Sir I don't think you have ever researched Islam at all, How about the massacre of the Banu Qurayza where 600-900 males were beheaded. The young males were checked for any pubic hair first, if they had any they were beheaded. The women and children became slaves.

Yeah you better read again bro.. The Jews broke a truce and sided with the Pagans... Sort of similar to today.

Rape:
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Firstly the Surah you have quoted doesn't mention anything about Banu Qurayza and it certainly doesn't promote Rape.. The Surah you have quoted comes from a chapter that is called "The Women" or "An Nisa".. How about you read the entire chapter before you go making false claims... If you proclaim to have studied the Qu'ran your not very good at it.

(In front of their husbands mind you)

4:24 says no such thing...

and the list just keeps going on and on and on, do you you really want me to continue because I could keep posting for a full week and still not finish the crimes commited and Quranic orders to fight the disbelievers.

Please keep going because I can tell straight away you cherry pick verses and have never really studied the Qu'ran.

I have studied the Quran & Hadith which I why I can say ISIS hasn't done anything that Mohammed hasn't done.

I have read the Qu'ran many times in it's Full Context for the past 5-6 years on a regular basis.. You can keep throwing up your vomit if you really want to but just remember I'm sitting on the other end of the keyboard rolling around on the floor for you. But since you like to cherry pick, I may as well also.

How about 4:19?

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will.

How about you read the entire Book. How about you do some real study. While your at it, check out the conditions for waging war in the name of Islam... You should know where it is.

At the end of the day, it does not matter what the religon is. It does not matter if its islam, christianity, buddhist etc at the end of the day, they are doing this because they like to do it. And i think that is what angers me the most.

Really, how can you justify beheading a child (if its true that isis are doing this) What kind of person must you be to actually do that. If they do believe that they are actually doing this for allah, and he approves, i would hate to see what their devil is like!

Yes, we could wipe them out, but that will not solve the problem, because there will always be another group. Another group of people hungry for violence and murder. Its a cycle that seems almost impossible to break.

The number one priority for the US should be alternate fuel. The Middle East needs to implode by itself. We are beholden to the Saudi oil sheiks. Imagine telling them they can keep their oil, we don't need it anymore. We wouldn't need to put our troops and news media in harms way, and the various religious sects could do whatever they want in the most violent place in the universe. We could simply stay out of there. No Americans would be used as terrorist bait. We need to be radical too, by eliminating our dependence on oil. Let the sheiks pay for private enterprise military support with their own money, and let paid contractors take the risks.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: fishwhisperer
a reply to: DarknStormy

Sir I don't think you have ever researched Islam at all, How about the massacre of the Banu Qurayza where 600-900 males were beheaded. The young males were checked for any pubic hair first, if they had any they were beheaded. The women and children became slaves.

Yeah you better read again bro.. The Jews broke a truce and sided with the Pagans... Sort of similar to today.

Rape:
Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Sura 4:24) "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess." (Abu Dawud 2150, also Muslim 3433)

Firstly the Surah you have quoted doesn't mention anything about Banu Qurayza and it certainly doesn't promote Rape.. The Surah you have quoted comes from a chapter that is called "The Women" or "An Nisa".. How about you read the entire chapter before you go making false claims... If you proclaim to have studied the Qu'ran your not very good at it.

(In front of their husbands mind you)

4:24 says no such thing...

and the list just keeps going on and on and on, do you you really want me to continue because I could keep posting for a full week and still not finish the crimes commited and Quranic orders to fight the disbelievers.

Please keep going because I can tell straight away you cherry pick verses and have never really studied the Qu'ran.

I have studied the Quran & Hadith which I why I can say ISIS hasn't done anything that Mohammed hasn't done.

I have read the Qu'ran many times in it's Full Context for the past 5-6 years on a regular basis.. You can keep throwing up your vomit if you really want to but just remember I'm sitting on the other end of the keyboard rolling around on the floor for you. But since you like to cherry pick, I may as well also.

How about 4:19?

O you who believe! You are forbidden to inherit women against their will.

How about you read the entire Book. How about you do some real study. While your at it, check out the conditions for waging war in the name of Islam... You should know where it is.

Sir you bring nothing nothing to the table and seem to think murder is ok. I've read a few of your other posts about how ISIS don't represent Islam but you have nothing to back it up !!.

verse 4:24 I showed the context of the verse (All Islamic sources of course). It also says the captured husbands were present and Mohammed's bandits wanted to have sex with them (whilst husnbands present). verse 4:24 gave them the permission. It's not hard to fathom what exactly is happening here but you seem unable to grasp it ?. Until you can bring something credible to your assertion that ISIS don't represent Islam the facts will speak for themselves.

a reply to: fishwhisperer

Everything around that verse is referring to Women and Women only. You cannot take that verse and apply it to something else because it is strictly speaking about Women. Nowhere does it mention the Husbands and nowhere does it mention people wanting to rape them. What part of this gives any kind of permission?

Also, prohibited are women already married, except those (women) who your right hand possess: thus has Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you: except for these, all others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with gifts of your property-desiring chastity, not lust. Seeing that you derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, you agree mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, all wise Surah 4:24

Where does this endorse raping the Husbands and to be exact where the Husbands are present? This is strictly speaking about Women and marriage.. Where are you getting your crap from? Seriously, you are speaking sh*t. How about we get to the bottom of this before I move on because I'm confused to where you have actually drawn your opinion from. You are not making sense to be honest.

originally posted by: eggman90
The number one priority for the US should be alternate fuel. The Middle East needs to implode by itself. We are beholden to the Saudi oil sheiks. Imagine telling them they can keep their oil, we don't need it anymore. We wouldn't need to put our troops and news media in harms way, and the various religious sects could do whatever they want in the most violent place in the universe. We could simply stay out of there. No Americans would be used as terrorist bait. We need to be radical too, by eliminating our dependence on oil. Let the sheiks pay for private enterprise military support with their own money, and let paid contractors take the risks.

the finance system, trade, the global GDP systems and Paradigm (oil/energy) will not change on Their own accord....

something like an extinction-level-event needs to happen for the whole global community to get on the right track of having sustainable systems in all areas of our lives...

That's the kind of Fundamental Change we as voters were hoodwinked into thinking was possible by electing the pretender in the WH





BTW, is that a bald & younger Vincent Price in your Avatar?