Unknown orange/red glow over Pacific Ocean

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Excellent information, theories.

Curious about exact description of original flash. Was it collimated like a laser beam, like a pencil beam? Was it instantaneous, and if so, what made you think it was directed upwards? Was it exactly straight? Lightning usually has a jagged path relating to the path of least resistance through the atmosphere. Lightning also oscillates between ground and clouds, any indication of that? All remembered details would be appreciated.

If there was a massive EM / lightning pulse from whatever source, it might be useful to check the antipodes of the event, which would put it in the area of southern Brazil or Uruguay.

I am leaning in the direction of a rare natural event given the area covered on the ocean surface. Possibly some rare piezoelectric phenomenon related to the subduction zone next to the trench.

Really appreciate all your information, photos and thoughts on this event, and I hope we will all learn something new about our fair planet.

guyx

a reply to: gguyx

First I think I have to underline that there is no proof that the flash and the red lights are connected. I mentioned it, just in case it could be related.
The flash/lightning we saw was very far away and extremely short, much shorter and brighter then any normal lightning that I have seen many times.
Since it was very far away (hundreds of km) I could not see it clearly, but it looked as a lightning bolt coming out of the top of a large cloud, not going up very high in the atmosphere. Shape etc were not visible because of the distance and the very short timespan.

I got a message from two independent lightning-detection companies and they both did not find any indication for lightning strikes in a radius of a few hundred miles in that entire region that night.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

the flash you saw may be a sprite goo.gl...

they can be see from realy far away

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thanks for answering our questions, for being a good photographer, and for having an open (but rational) mind!

Your descriptions have been so clear and thorough that I only have one question:

Most of the lights in the photos are red, orange, or white. In one of the photos, blue/purple lights can also be seen. Two of the photos show green, yellow, and red lights in a short curve.

Were all of these lights coming from below the aircraft, or are some reflected from inside the cockpit?

The green, yellow, and red lights in a curve look almost like LEDs next to a fuel guage.

I have clearly missed a few posts and questions, so here the answers for as far as I can answer them!

originally posted by: Fl078
Hi,
I have a few questions for jpcvanheijst.

1) About the red/orange glow phase, I was wondering, did you notice the green lights amongst the red and orange ones? as can be seen here:
www.pbase.com...

I'm asking because it could be artefacts/abberations from the long exposure/very high ISO.


2) Did you take a picture with no long exposure, because the less exposure I see is 3 secondes?
If not why? Would it be not enough noticeable?


3) did you check the exact location when you were flying exactly above the lights?
Because the picture of the red light far away ahead could maybe match with Shishaldin Volcano, which seems active actually. This was suggested by a member (Bob Rekin) of a french forum.

Thanks in advance for your answers!

1) Yes the lights were visible in all colors as on the photo by the naked eye. Even though it was a long exposure and high ISO, I (think, not sure anymore but can be looked up in the exif file) had the color temperature manually adjusted. After many years of night-photography from the cockpit I roughly feel what the right color temperature setting is for those shots, resulting in shots that nearly always match the lights you see with the naked eye.

2) I did not take any shots with a shorter shuttertime since there was not enough light. I already pushed the D800 (a really good camera by the way) already far to her limit by boosting the ISO that far up. I could have used a shorter shuttertime and they would probably still be easily visible, but you have to imagine that Im sitting in that cockpit to fly the plane, not to take pictures
Taking pictures can be done in between the normal work, and I did not have the time to change lenses and settings too much. Next to that, we were flying at roughly 1100km/h so you can imagine there was not an ocean of time (pun intended) to capture it in the first place.
If I had the chance I would have loved to take some with shorter shuttertimes as well, but well... our priority was to stay safe and avoid any possible ashclouds and at that moment the photos were a second priority.

3) The exact location was checked on the airplanes navigation systems and I took a photo of those coordinates a few minutes after. www.pbase.com...
As you can see on any map (like google maps), there is no undersea terrain that could explain these lights.

originally posted by: OpenMindedRealist
a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thanks for answering our questions, for being a good photographer, and for having an open (but rational) mind!

Your descriptions have been so clear and thorough that I only have one question:

Most of the lights in the photos are red, orange, or white. In one of the photos, blue/purple lights can also be seen. Two of the photos show green, yellow, and red lights in a short curve.

Were all of these lights coming from below the aircraft, or are some reflected from inside the cockpit?

The green, yellow, and red lights in a curve look almost like LEDs next to a fuel guage.

You're welcome. Glad to answer any honest questions that might come after seeing these images.
I think you're talking about this image; so I've explained with some rude lines and texts what lights are actually observed and which ones are reflections from the cockpit.
The strange small green one to the right is also one of the lights we saw.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thanks for the clarification. You answered my question and then some.

Quite intriguing...I don't know what to think at this point. Volcanic activity might explain the 'hot' red-orange lights, but not green/blue/purple.

ATS members have short attention-spans, but I assure you many of us remain highly interested in your sighting. Please let us know of any developments!

a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Thanks! I can imagine and it sure became an unexpected 'hype', and all the attention quite shocked me in all honesty.
Hopefully the very negative comments will disappear quickly and the genuinely interested folks stay tuned.

We'll just see if we ever get an answer, though the fact that most of the official institutions and organizations keep quiet means to me that its either not taken serious, or that its stuff (read; military) that they dont want to confirm or give more attention then it already got.

originally posted by: jpcvanheijst
a reply to: OpenMindedRealist

Thanks! I can imagine and it sure became an unexpected 'hype', and all the attention quite shocked me in all honesty.
Hopefully the very negative comments will disappear quickly and the genuinely interested folks stay tuned.

We'll just see if we ever get an answer, though the fact that most of the official institutions and organizations keep quiet means to me that its either not taken serious, or that its stuff (read; military) that they dont want to confirm or give more attention then it already got.

Thanks for keeping up with this JPC! I agree (mentioned it many pages back also) that if it was military, it will never be addressed.

a reply to: gguyx

I am sure I have seen that weird globular light look before - could it be a fission event just above or below the ocean surface??
Also might explain the initial flash too.





Just a thought and thanks for bringing this to the site

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Greetings and thank you for all your contributions to the discussion and sharing information on various theories.

I was interested to know if flight crews have access to the flight data recording or monitoring systems corresponding to this position in the flight? It seems that several countries (from my cursory reading) require various measurements be recorded. Of particular interest in my reading ramblings was if radiation levels are monitored with these systems. In a sales brochure for an "industry leader" I noted this information on the left of the page that outlines the protections for flight crews with required monitoring of at least some radiation levels.



Other readings from the flight data recorders and monitors at that point in the flight may offer some insights as well.

The page is from a brochure by Teledyne Controls and also outlined laws in various countries for data monitoring and reporting.

ETA:

The reason I ask is, this is a photo of tritium luminescence.



The description on this pic reads:

In order to provide a visual demonstration of the light output of tritium light sources I have had a rummage around and taken some photographs of tritium vials of various size and colours along with my watch which uses standard luminous paint on the hands for comparison.

And there are similarities to the anomaly you captured here



As I mentioned on the last page...

We know Tritium is being released in groundwater and storage leaks from Fukushima and could be carried along the currents where opposing currents could concentrate and whirlpool it. 

The related thought is, could this radiation be creating spheres of Tritiated Water aka Super Heavy Water where currents converge, that becomes ordered in a liquid crystalline structure? Could these spheres of super heavy water then have the ordered geometry necessary to sustain chain reactions? 

Stay safe up there and thank you again.



photo source

a reply to: korkythecat

quote from korkythecat:

"a reply to: gguyx

I am sure I have seen that weird globular light look before - could it be a fission event just above or below the ocean surface??
Also might explain the initial flash too."

I think you meant to reply to someone else. I didn't post those a-bomb pics.

guyx

originally posted by: korkythecat
a reply to: gguyx

I am sure I have seen that weird globular light look before - could it be a fission event just above or below the ocean surface??
Also might explain the initial flash too.

Just a thought and thanks for bringing this to the site

The problem is those pictures were followed by a mushroom cloud

Hi,
thank you for your answer JPC van Heijst!

To me, tho I have no certainty, the boats hypothesis, and more particularly "military exercice" is the most convincing.


First, it seems important to me to note that the pictures doesn't reflect the real sighting but make the lights a lot more important and deformed than observed (because of long exposure and extremely high ISO), also by fish eye.

As said before, there is one of the largest Russian navy bases in Kamtchatka, around Vilioutchinsk / Pétropavlovsk (Vilioutchinsk is 595 km away from sighting location, Pétropavlovsk 630 km).




When checking and comparing carefully the pictures, I've noticed the lights are too homogeneous (maybe too much to be natural phenomenon?).

When zooming on the picture with less exposure time (3 sec), so the most accurate:
www.pbase.com...



Lights are almost identicals, despite fish eye deformation.



Let's check JPC van Heijst comments on the military exercise:

"...
4. Military fleet conducting;
Possible massive Russian navy exercise/weapon-test/salvage operation

Proof for:
– Close to Petropavlovsk, one of the largest Russian navy bases and home to the Pacific Nuclear submarine fleet at the Rybachy base, just South of Petropavlovsk naval base.
– Large US-navy exercises at the same day and time South of Japan and publicly announced (and failed) US weapon test with hypersonic missile out of Alaska that same day (24th of August)
– Political tension between the West and Russia could cause the Russian navy to test new weapons and organize large fleet exercises.
– Military fleets often use red lights to illuminate their ships at night
– Seize and scale of sighting is consistent with massive military operation like a weapon test or salvage operation
– Flash of light could indicate a possible weapon/rocket test
– Salvage operation could be possible because of large fleet of under-maintained nuclear submarines operating from base close by. Large scale salvage operation would be expected if a sub, armed with an array of valuable nuclear missiles, would go missing close to port.
– Location would be logical for a weapon/rocket test. Not in any fishing area or near commercial shipping lanes, deep sea, far from civilized world, close to large navy base, likely radiation from Fukushima would shield possible nuclear radiation/waste from a nuclear weapon-test in the deep sea current coming from Japan. Theories about Fukushima radiation being used/abused for hiding radiation-effects for military tests are widely spread

Problems with Military fleet conducting:
- Unannounced, large Russian exercise or weapon tests outside of Russian territory/waters are not likely
– Lights were far too bright for night illumination of military vessels, they would even blind their own personnel. Some lights were white and green, inconsistent with uniform red color for military fleet
– Airways were not closed for civilian/commercial aviation (as normal for military exercises and weapon tests)
– No NOTAMS (Notice To AirMen) in preflight briefing of airspace about possible military activities in this area, so an unannounced/secret operation would be logical if it is a military operation... but;
– if it was a secret operation, strong lights are not logical. They attract a lot of attention at night from commercial aviation

Verdict; Possible, but strange
Could be a covert military operation outside of Russian waters, but lights are too bright for ship illumination at night and are not logical to have been carried if it was secret; one would expect dimly illuminated ships to make sure personnel keep their 'night vision'. On the other hand; airspace was not closed, nor a warning was issued, so a large military exercise or test can almost certain be ruled out. Could explain the flash of light earlier. Unlikely to hear anything about anymore this if it really was a military operation."

The "against" arguments and conclusion that some kind of "reject" (despite says "possible") the hypothesis are not very convincing to me (with all respect du to JPC van Heijst!).

Airspace was not closed, but we don't know if they were going to do missile test? So maybe there was no need to close it, neither warning anybody.

About the lights, military ships often use red (which is the case) but using other colors is very possible.


from: défence.gov

Exemple of use of green lights (US NAVY):



Some will say, "light intensity from military boats wouldn't be high enough to show like they do on pictures!"
I would answer pictures doesn't reflect the reality because of long exposure, extremely high ISO and fish eye.
The lights were very weak compared to the pictures with 8 seconds exposure, that's why I've asked (previous page) why the witness didn't take a picture without long exposure.

"I did not take any shots with a shorter shuttertime since there was not enough light. I already pushed the D800 (a really good camera by the way) already far to her limit by boosting the ISO that far up. I could have used a shorter shuttertime and they would probably still be easily visible, but you have to imagine that Im sitting in that cockpit to fly the plane, not to take pictures "

So although no certainty (since no confirmation from military), this is the best hypothesis to me.

Just my 0.02



PS: sorry for my english ,I'm french.

a reply to: Fl078

Very interesting post. The big problem I have with the military lights is that they were extremely bright, especially for the naked eye. That was what made us think twice about what we saw and what made us think what the h*ck was happening beneath us.
As you can see it was illuminating the entire sky around, lighting up the clouds at even our altitude.

If the lights were dim (as you would expect with a military vessel carrying night-vision-lights) i would not even have taken any notice or taken photos.

a reply to: Fl078

Well-constructed post. I cannot discount your theory, but I don't think it is the answer.

The whole reason the military uses red lights for illumination is because they are not easily seen from far away. Jpcvanheijst describes the lights as being very bright (from 35,000 ft). In order to appear that bright from altitude, they would have to be EXTREMELY bright at sea level -- to the point of blinding the sailors.

There's a scientific explanation for red light not being visible from far away. Diffusion in the atmosphere or something...sorry no time to provide a link now.

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Thanks again for keeping us updated.


I hear you, observing such lights in the middle of nowhere, from a plane and with that kind of context (volcanic/seismic activities), everybody would have felt anxious!


For sure I see it was illuminating the entire sky, but I've noticed not as brilliantly as on the 8 seconds exposure pictures, but I guess more like in the picture with less exposure (3 sec):
www.pbase.com...

This last picture was taken only 22 seconds after the following, but with 8 seconds exposure (it helps finding out how the long exposure exaggerate the lights size and intensity)
www.pbase.com...


On the next picture, the lights seem powerfull enough to be seen from a plane, and look similar as on the picture with 3 seconds exposure.
Considering even in the picture with 3 seconds exposure, long exposure makes the lights looks bigger end brighter, it doesn't seem impossible at all to me that a military operation could be the explanation.




I have no certainty, that's why your view is very important, but this hypothesis looks the more probable to me.

a reply to: Fl078

Thanks, though the problem is that with the photos you posted, the red lights look bright because of the long shutter time. With my pictures, the lights were very bright even for the naked eye. My shutter time used (30-8-3 seconds) is compensated for the huge distance from the light source and the fact that is was partially shielded off by a cloud layer.

I agree that it definitely makes sense to take this military-convoy/fleet serious, though there are a few major setbacks in this theory and it just doesn't add up.

cold fusion



"Cold fusion is a hypothetical type of nuclear reaction that would occur at, or near, room temperature, compared with temperatures in the millions of degrees"

a reply to: jpcvanheijst

Another approach to solving, or at least getting some direction to solving, this event is to determine the energy output of the field of lights. This should be possible knowing the camera, its settings, the plane's altitude, atmospheric conditions and approximate sizes of the colored patches.

We already know they were large, and we know that the photos are a close approximation of what you actually saw with your own eyes. Of course, this method wouldn't consider other frequencies of light that might also have been present, which the camera was unable to capture.

Given your recent photo of the city for comparison, we might deduce that the energy output of the phenomenon was roughly comparable to the energy output of the city lights. But I'd like to see your calculations or estimates since you were on site.

guyx