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ATS and other sites with it's online Debunkers

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posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 05:15 AM
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You've seen them, you've read their lies, you may have also laughed hard at some of their lies.
One thing is for sure though, they're real, and they work like an establishment media on forums debunking the day away.
Some do it because they sincerely believe they have the knowledge of fact beside them, always. Others may well be getting paid for it, and the rest are try-hard apprentices.

Now let's not get mixed up with skeptics here, because they always produce a healthy reaction. Debunkers do not.

What theses professional debunkers/wannabes use, is four primary tactics to accomplish their propaganda feats:

1) They refuse to mention, much less attempt to disprove, the most irrefutable and damaging evidence.

2) They take great delight in debunking only those conspiracy theories that are the weakest or that are planted by other government sympathizers to help discredit the more credible conspiracy facts. This is what is referred to as a "straw man" argument, where a weak or false argument is set up so that it can easily be knocked down.

3) They only select "experts" who agree with the official conclusion.

4) They snicker at or mock anyone who believes that government engages in criminal behavior or covers up crimes in collusion with judges, investigators, prosecutors, media heads, and hand-picked commissions. Worse, they label dissenters as unpatriotic or mentally imbalanced.

The notion that 'It is rational to only believe what's been proven' somehow got twisted into, ‘It is irrational to believe in anything that hasn't been proven’.”




Are you one of these that I speak of?











edit on 31-07-2014 by skyblueworld because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 05:28 AM
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originally posted by: skyblueworld
You've seen them, you've read their lies, you may have also laughed hard at some of their lies.
One thing is for sure though, they're real, and they work like an establishment media on forums debunking the day away.
Some do it because they sincerely believe they have the knowledge of fact beside them, always. Others may well be getting paid for it, and the rest are try-hard apprentices.

Now let's not get mixed up with skeptics here, because they always produce a healthy reaction. Debunkers do not.

What theses professional debunkers/wannabes use, is four primary tactics to accomplish their propaganda feats:

1) They refuse to mention, much less attempt to disprove, the most irrefutable and damaging evidence.

2) They take great delight in debunking only those conspiracy theories that are the weakest or that are planted by other government sympathizers to help discredit the more credible conspiracy facts. This is what is referred to as a "straw man" argument, where a weak or false argument is set up so that it can easily be knocked down.

3) They only select "experts" who agree with the official conclusion.

4) They snicker at or mock anyone who believes that government engages in criminal behavior or covers up crimes in collusion with judges, investigators, prosecutors, media heads, and hand-picked commissions. Worse, they label dissenters as unpatriotic or mentally imbalanced.

The notion that 'It is rational to only believe what's been proven' somehow got twisted into, ‘It is irrational to believe in anything that hasn't been proven’.”

First of all, just because something hasn't been proven and established in mainstream science doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't true. If it did, then nothing would exist until proven or discovered. Bacteria and germs would never have caused illnesses until they were proven and discovered, smoking would not cause cancer until it was proven, the planet Pluto would not have existed until it was discovered, etc. Anyone knows that this simply is not so. For instance, when Acupuncture was first introduced in the West, skeptics and certain scientists claimed that it had no basis and only worked due to the placebo effect because they couldn't understand how it worked. This reflected the typical false thinking of skeptics that anything they don’t understand must be due to superstition or chance.



Are you one of these that I speak of?













Thread derailment is another,causing the people reading the thread into going on off on nonsensical tangents totally unrelated to the message originally posted.
Seen it many times.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 05:34 AM
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a reply to: southbeach

Just like your post!

Ironic.

I was editing at the time, but cheers anyway.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 05:40 AM
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There will always be debunkers.
It's only because they themselves can't think outside the box, or, they are being paid to debunk.

The worst debunkers are those who debunk other people's experiences.
I am not saying there aren't any liars out there or people who just tell stories to get attention.
But for people who have real experiences and is searching out to find people they can share and talk to, these debunker are really emotionally hurting these people.

Like bullies.

It's good to see things through different perspectives, but to just plainly tell someone, you are wrong is not helpfull.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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Its like the Bible thumpers in your family. Even though the reason is always Satan is fooling you, if it wasn't for being being curious about all things and not just one narrow view you'd be one of them.

Good thing that terrible example was set for us so that we can do better!



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 06:28 AM
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a reply to: skyblueworld




Thread derailment is another,causing the people reading the thread into going on off on nonsensical tangents totally unrelated to the message originally posted.
Seen it many times.



How on earth does this have nothing to do with your thread?
There is no irony here, the person was adding a valid 5th point to your 4 points posted.

I've seen debunkers derailing threads many times in the past, especially when they can't prove they are right,then they start writing about off topic things,and claim how those are right though.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 07:53 AM
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a reply to: skyblueworld

After a while they become painfully obvious and the only thing they debunk is themselves. I must admit that the obvious shills (yeah they exist) do make me laugh at times. Their accounts don't last very long since they are usually quickly exposed. Some manage to stick around for a while even though they constantly breach terms and conditions, this makes me very suspicious as to why site management allow them to stay?



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 08:12 AM
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Try this...

Post a thread about the dangers of Fracking and watch the oil company shills come out of the woodwork.
They will often agree with you initially but when their curious brand of logic kicks in....the fun really starts.

Almost any controversial subject will bring out the derailment posse; especially religion and politics.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: skyblueworld

Their accounts don't last very long since they are usually quickly exposed.


No, some of them have VERY old accounts! They have become very respected members, just laughing and joking along with the rest of us, but when something of importance gets posted they swing into action. Just take a look through some of the Ferguson threads and you'll see them pushing the os.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 08:35 AM
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That is so true .I think that is what surprised me the most as they seem to have a almost cult following .They do make very good posts and have a real good knowledge of what they are talking about . After the Snowden document I started making a list and checking it twice . NO stars for you bad boys and girls anymore :>) peace a reply to: VoidHawk



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: VoidHawk

originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: skyblueworld

Their accounts don't last very long since they are usually quickly exposed.


No, some of them have VERY old accounts! They have become very respected members, just laughing and joking along with the rest of us, but when something of importance gets posted they swing into action. Just take a look through some of the Ferguson threads and you'll see them pushing the os.


You should have read the rest of my post as I clearly explained this as well...



Some manage to stick around for a while even though they constantly breach terms and conditions, this makes me very suspicious as to why site management allow them to stay?


You must have missed that part



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 09:23 AM
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a reply to: VoidHawk



No, some of them have VERY old accounts! They have become very respected members, just laughing and joking along with the rest of us, but when something of importance gets posted they swing into action.


You're right about that. Try discussing Ukraine issues and they swoop in like a well oiled fighter squadron. But only if you don't speak the party line. Sad and pathetic really.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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A "side effect" of too many random people on the internet...



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 09:45 AM
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I used to get angry and felt I had to call out the obvious debunkers, sock puppets, trolls, etc.

I really began to notice it in the fall of 2009. The tenor of the conversations changed markedly from healthy, rational skepticism, to irrational personal attacks and completely subjective assertions.

I spent an inordinate amount of time railing against such provocateurs. So much so that I wrote off this site for years and forgot my log on.

Today I am pleased to see most people recognize trolls for what they are. Most intelligent people have become hip to the devices used by debunkers.

Its beginning to backfire. There was a story on local public radio where an Israeli sympatizer posed as a rabid antisemite in order to discourage others to dissociate from a site that would allow such vile, racist comments.

At first it worked but the owners of the site started digging and found thousands of posts from "Michael K Ultra" and "Bacon Ham and Eggs," were all coming from the same ISP.

He was a Harvard grad working at a university. They didn't unmask his identity fearing neo Nazis might kill him for tricking them.

Debunkers days are numbered. Too many people have woken up. The tide of truth is growing into an unstoppable wave rushing over the entire planet.

Forgiveness is our strongest weapon. They have no defense against love and understanding. Like spoiled children, there are natural consequences that are taken care of by a power greater than me.


a reply to: skyblueworld



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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Maybe they are just people like you and I whom have a different view on the world.
I used to believe many conspiracies before I became a member of ATS now not so much.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 10:50 AM
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I like giving my opinion as to what something really is or how it should be viewed based on consensus of the time. I like to investigate the ways that government controls us and the initial reasons for the rules they made and the policies they adopt.

Now, I debunk things a lot, trying to supply an explanation of why these perceptions have been adopted by governments and society. I try to explain what the real reasons of some things are, as I see them. I'm not always right though, sometimes there are a variety of reasons for things we see, often there is a more important or relevant one than I give. There are a lot of things kept from us, sometimes the original reasons for practices have even been forgotten in society. People have been tricking people into doing things that are viewed as right for a very long time using traditions and conditioning in societies.

Without rules and regulations and some conditioning, the societies would be a lot more chaotic. Not all of the things thought of as conspiracies are bad, some hidden things are good for society. Not fluoride added to water or fracking though. I am looking at things from the side, examining the whole picture as much as I possibly can. This means I will sometimes be a debunker and won't always disclose the real reason I see for what others are discussing.

Remember, government and truth should never be in the same sentence. Also the words society and truth should never be used together. Consensus of the time is reality for us, many things form this everchanging consensus. Reality has not been truth for all of recorded history, Occams Razor adjusts thruth to reality.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 11:20 AM
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originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: skyblueworld

After a while they become painfully obvious and the only thing they debunk is themselves. I must admit that the obvious shills (yeah they exist) do make me laugh at times. Their accounts don't last very long since they are usually quickly exposed. Some manage to stick around for a while even though they constantly breach terms and conditions, this makes me very suspicious as to why site management allow them to stay?




Yeah and worst thing that happens sometimes is that they become mods, that right there says something about ats.


Peace.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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originally posted by: skyblueworld
You've seen them, you've read their lies, you may have also laughed hard at some of their lies.
One thing is for sure though, they're real, and they work like an establishment media on forums debunking the day away.

What is ripe for being debunked, should aggressively be debunked. And most importantly, we should accept and embrace that.



Let's not forget the fanboy true-believer who holds tight to completely debunked theories/topics.

1) They refuse to mention, much less attempt to accept, the most irrefutable and damaging evidence.

2) They take great delight in embracing those conspiracy theories that are the most outrageous and require the involvement of hundreds, even thousands of people.

3) They only select "experts" who agree with their conclusion, or the conclusions of the conspiracy proponents/originators.

4) They snicker at or mock anyone who believes that government would not engage in criminal behavior, coverups, or conspiracies.







There are two sides to this coin.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 11:25 AM
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a reply to: mcChoodles

There is a member here with a name similar to Michael k ultra.
Its like Mike K Ultra or something like that. Hmmmm, I wonder.


Peace.



posted on Aug, 25 2014 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: real_one
a reply to: skyblueworld

After a while they become painfully obvious and the only thing they debunk is themselves. I must admit that the obvious shills (yeah they exist) do make me laugh at times. Their accounts don't last very long since they are usually quickly exposed. Some manage to stick around for a while even though they constantly breach terms and conditions, this makes me very suspicious as to why site management allow them to stay?



Do you use the alert button to notify staff of these breaches of T&C?





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