The Battle For The Boy Scouts

Well lets see what ATS members think about this one, do you agree that the boy scouts should be free to have limits on their membership or not? Is it an assault on an American icon? Who's agenda is this anyway?



The Battle For The Boy Scouts
The Battle For The Boy Scouts
By Hans Zeiger (bio)

Nearly a century has passed since Lord Robert Baden-Powell founded the Boy Scouts in Great Britain. It has been a century filled with radical ideologies that recruited young men into Hitler Youth and the Communist Party, that populated the American youth cult with hippies and druggies, and that replaced fathers with fanaticisms and mores with MTV. Young men might have annihilated this world had it not been for the Boy Scouts.

The Boy Scouts have always been a great threat to the utopian dreams of the ideologues. In the 1920s, the national secretary of the Young Communist League warned Lord Baden-Powell that he should expect a fight to the finish. Baden-Powell replied, "You can't fight without two. Our aim is to help to poorer boy, independent of all political questions, to get his fair chance of happiness and success in life."

Today, the Boy Scouts - at least in America where the Scouts haven't succumbed to political correctness - remain above the trap of radicalism and ideology. While truth has been supplanted by relativism in most American institutions, the Boy Scouts still study and practice principles.

source

Ed for what it�s worth I was a Boy Scout along time ago here in Canada, I learned a lot from the Scouts from winter camping, boiling water in a paper bag comes to mind but also so many other things that I have used in life.I meet many Americans Scouts and others from around the world at jamborees. But to answer your question I think they should have the same rights as other organizations have, including the right to put limits on membership. As for who�s agenda I haven�t a clue.

[edit on 5/12/2004 by Sauron]

I think southpark put it perfectly: it is for us to try and convince them to change their opinion, not extort them to. The Boy Scouts is a private club, and as such, has the right to refuse entry to homosexuals if it wants to.

Originally posted by General Zapata
I think south park put it perfectly: it is for us to try and convince them to change their opinion, not extort them to. The Boy Scouts is a private club, and as such, has the right to refuse entry to homosexuals if it wants to.

Perfect answer, you beat me to it. As a private organization IMO they have the right to bar ANYONE from joining they wish, and so far I believe the courts have seen it the same. If the were a Government group they would not be allowed to discriminate. You are free to join or to start your OWN group as you wish. It gets into a Grey area when they wish to use Government facilities but I would not have a problem as long as the facilities were available to other groups also.

Things don't have to be complicated, a little common sense goes a long way

A list of links to articles dealing with this issue can be found here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

My son is in his second year in Cub Scouts and is loving it. I too think they have every right that a private club should have and that included excluding sexually deviate adults from becoming leaders. Sex has no place in what the Scouts do as it has no place in school either if you've read my posts in that thread.

I have taken the leadership training and the scouts have some good rules about no one on one conversations. No leader is to ever take a child into a private room or is any ceremony to be closed. Everything that happens in scouts is to be in full view of the rest of the troop and parents. There is extensive training on how to spot sexual, emotional, and physical abuse and report it as well as how to handle it if a child confronts a leader with a report of such behavior.

Again, if a leader deems in neccesary to bring it to light he is gay, then he probably intends to make sex a part of his role. We do not have leaders going around announcing they are straight. WHY? Because sex belongs in the bedroom with a consenting adult. You're a scout leader because you care about your son and helping him grow into man hood with skills, pride, self asteem. Whether your gay or straight, why the hell would you need to make an announcement and get everyone's acceptance of it in an organization who has possibly as little to do with sexual intercourse as you can find?

I you think your gay and already have a son and he wants to be in scouts and wants you to be a leader, leave the gay agenda at home. If my son's leader jumped up and announced he was a heterosexual to his troop, I'd demand to know why we needed to know and probably demand he step down as well. People, there are just some things in which sex isn't a part. I know we have beome freakin obsessed with it over the last couple decades but I mean come on? I'f you're gay and have no inclination toward raping unwilling boys, then why do you need to make it everyone else's business? If you do have an inclination to do such things, I believe you might have a case for discrimination because the rules in place will make it near impossible to do so.

I agree with everyone else. Yes, they do the right to exclude. I also agree that if you are gay and are a leader.....what business is it of anyones your orientation....leave that part of your life in the bedroom. Now, if it comes to someone (gay) being a leader and his son is in the scouts and the leaders partner wants to attend functions etc. then it's a little more complicated, but I still feel that noone has to know that he is your boyfriend/husband whatever.

It is the recognition that what they do is acceptable even if forced that is the issue. Thats why they have to let them know, forced acceptance......


Sure the scouts have had gay leaders in the past, some have abused it just as some priests abused it.

If a kid sees his leader as a trustworthy figure and this guy announces that he is gay, the the child is to accept the act as acceptable and normal?


No it is private and they can keep put whomever they want.


I never by Levi's for this exact reason as they were one of the first to start this horsecrap against the Boy Scouts via the gay agenda.

Forever a scout!

The attack against the boy scouts by the radical "gay agenda" pushers was a HUGE mistake...and for me it closed the door to any further acceptance of the "gay agenda".

It was mean spirited, it was selfish, it was devicive, it was mis-guided, and it ended up hurting an organization where sex played no real part, and one which is committed to community service and has been a proud facet of "Americana".

It showed me the true colors of the "gay agenda", they dont care who they hurt as long as they can get something for themselves.

My tolorance for the "gay agenda's" intolorance is short. the idea of if they cant have something, then we'll ruin it for everyone else is pathetic, desperate, and juvinile.

When i go to the store, and the scouts are out front selling hotdogs for a buck a piece, i just put a $20 into the can and walk off...not eating a dog they could sell to another person....as i remember what it was like to be a poor kid, working hard to afford a uniform shirt and save enough to take the group camping....They will ALWAYS have my support!!!

The United Way can go to hell for their cutting off the scouts after decades of support...they will never get ANYTHING from me because of their hypocracy...they are FULL of "criteria based entitlments" (womens only, age based, etc) yet cut off the scouts for having criteria of their own.

If you support the scouts DONT support united way...find another more inclusive charity, one that doesnt discriminate against a group for exercising its PROTECTED 1rst Amendment rights.

[edit on 31-12-2004 by CazMedia]

the boy scouts have never had my support. Ever since they were chanting war against vietnam. I wish they would just stick the flag up their asses. haha. I love Propagandhi

Again an attack against them for exercising their PROTECTED 1rst amendment rights? Why am i NOT suprised?

Gen Zapata,
as i am unaware of ANY of the allegations you allege here about the scouts, could you please provide some evidence of what your talking about here? Was this a local troop or the national charter? When/Where?

Which of the ideals in my last post's title do you think is NOT worth teaching?

what? oh, it was just my little rant. never mind.

Gen Zapata offers NOTHING BUT HYPED UNTRUTHS,

what? oh, it was just my little rant. never mind.

OOOH NOW itas suddenly, "forget my innacurate ranting" when attacking the Boy Scouts eh?

A one line blast and run?
Demonizing the Scouts serves what purpose eh?

none, except for me to vent. it was never meant to be a serious addition to this discussion. whats your problem, caz?

Originally posted by astrocreep
I too think they have every right that a private club should have and that included excluding sexually deviate adults from becoming leaders.

I'f you're gay and have no inclination toward raping unwilling boys, then why do you need to make it everyone else's business?

Boy, I'm sure glad you're a moderator, you truly live up to the spirit and intent of abovetopsecret. You're like a walking advertisement for "deny ignorance". I mean, what with somebody as open minded as you roaming these halls, I can't see how anyone could get the wrong impression of the place.

Please write more, you're doing wonders for the place.

Gen Zapata offers explanations,

it was never meant to be a serious addition to this discussion. whats your problem, caz?

None with you personally
but
i believe one line post and runs that were "never meant to be a serious addition to this discussion", qualify as trolling.

I know ive read better from you and was hoping to hear a more detailed and reasoned idea.
I wanted to hear about the information about the scouts chanting anti-war messages, and why this angered you.

Originally posted by astrocreep
I too think they have every right that a private club should have and that included excluding sexually deviate adults from becoming leaders.

I'f you're gay and have no inclination toward raping unwilling boys, then why do you need to make it everyone else's business?

Wow what a great statement? Why does it have to be public? Because of the need to have the behavior declared 'normal' or 'morally accepted', the Boy Scouts have EVERY right to EXCLUDE them....

They could just keep their mouth shut and no one would say a word.....

Again, you are backl for ten minutes and have posted in EVERY gay post. Hmmmm, sub conscience trying to break through?(Joke, know you not gay, just funny some of these topics haven't been posted in for a week or two, you back 10 minutes and they all at the top)

Originally posted by James the Lesser
some of these topics haven't been posted in for a week or two, you back 10 minutes and they all at the top)

I was answering the questions in my threads that I did not get a chance to answer before I left....