I thank God for hell

a reply to: borntowatch

Hell is Helios -- the Sun. Perhaps not everlasting or eternal, but nearly. And utterly destructive.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: borntowatch

Hell is Helios -- the Sun.

If The Sun is Hell, that means Hell is giving us light and warmth to survive on this planet? Hell helps our depression (since Sunlight is known to affect hormones and lower depression)? All of the Heavenly Bodies (The Planets) revolve around Hell?

a reply to: arpgme

Sounds about right.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

If Hell is The Sun, and The Sun has been proven to be an anti-depressant for us, then what is the point of going to heaven? Where is heaven according to you?

a reply to: arpgme

The Kingdom of Heaven is when Man has developed the knowledge and wisdom to such an extent that he has figured out that we are infact living on a rock in Heaven and have been in Heaven all along, only we couldn't prove it. In a biblical sense Heaven is/was the future, the future we are living in, where we have established once and for all (I hope) that Earth is a planet like Venus and Mars, and that we exist in the same heaven as the Sun and the Moon and the stars.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: arpgme

The Kingdom of Heaven is when Man has developed the knowledge and wisdom to such an extent that he has figured out that we are infact living on a rock in Heaven and have been in Heaven all along, only we couldn't prove it. In a biblical sense Heaven is/was the future, the future we are living in, where we have established once and for all (I hope) that Earth is a planet like Venus and Mars, and that we exist in the same heaven as the Sun and the Moon and the stars.

Yeah we live in one of the three heavens the bible talks about.
The Bible speaks of three different heavens. Genesis:1:1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. says that God created "the heavens"—plural. The first heaven is the atmosphere around the earth.www.uc.org...

Then there is a heaven where we will be with God

a reply to: borntowatch

Well, the plural suffix (-im) in 'Shamayim' (Strong's H8064) comes from "waters of heaven" or "Sha-Mayim" which is what the word translated Heavens mean. Comapare with Strong's H4325 'Mayim' "waters" and H8064 'Shameh' meaning "sky" or "lofty".

The idea that there were many heavens is something the Church made up to explain what they obviously had no idea about. When you're pope and represent the allknowing God and have made people understand that you are in direct contact with him on a daily basis, well, you have to have an answer for everything. And there you go. There is the sky, and there is space. 'Shameh' means "sky", Shamayim means "space" as in "cosmos" and the "universe".

That's the simple answer anyway, I could go on with how the first syllable 'Sha' is from an unused root, and most likely related to the Persian word for king, 'Shah', as in "shah mat" ("checkmate"), literally "the king is dead" or "the king is helpless".

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: borntowatch

Well, the plural suffix (-im) in 'Shamayim' (Strong's H8064) comes from "waters of heaven" or "Sha-Mayim" which is what the word translated Heavens mean. Comapare with Strong's H4325 'Mayim' "waters" and H8064 'Shameh' meaning "sky" or "lofty".

The idea that there were many heavens is something the Church made up to explain what they obviously had no idea about. When you're pope and represent the allknowing God and have made people understand that you are in direct contact with him on a daily basis, well, you have to have an answer for everything. And there you go. There is the sky, and there is space. 'Shameh' means "sky", Shamayim means "space" as in "cosmos" and the "universe".

That's the simple answer anyway, I could go on with how the first syllable 'Sha' is from an unused root, and most likely related to the Persian word for king, 'Shah', as in "shah mat" ("checkmate"), literally "the king is dead" or "the king is helpless".

The church made up?

Its root word is in Persian?

Care to back that up with something slightly more substantial, other than seemingly opinion.
I dont see it

No offence

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: borntowatch

Well, the plural suffix (-im) in 'Shamayim' (Strong's H8064) comes from "waters of heaven" or "Sha-Mayim" which is what the word translated Heavens mean. Comapare with Strong's H4325 'Mayim' "waters" and H8064 'Shameh' meaning "sky" or "lofty".

The idea that there were many heavens is something the Church made up to explain what they obviously had no idea about. When you're pope and represent the allknowing God and have made people understand that you are in direct contact with him on a daily basis, well, you have to have an answer for everything. And there you go. There is the sky, and there is space. 'Shameh' means "sky", Shamayim means "space" as in "cosmos" and the "universe".

That's the simple answer anyway, I could go on with how the first syllable 'Sha' is from an unused root, and most likely related to the Persian word for king, 'Shah', as in "shah mat" ("checkmate"), literally "the king is dead" or "the king is helpless".

The church made up?

Yes, "knowing" how many heavens there were and who or what was in them, became something of a science to the Church. At some point there were dozens of heavens, have you heard the terms Cloud Nine or Seventh Heaven? The church made these heavens up. There is but one.

Its root word is in Persian?

Like I said the unknown root of Shameh is probably Shah, and with the meaning being lofty or high, elevated etc. it fits the semantic and etymology of Persian Shah meaning king. There are other words too, but I don't see the point in using a bunch of hours researching a word for someone so unthankful as you. It's not uncommon that words have their origin in other languages. Most words of any language are of foreign origin. The name Maria/Miriam is from Egyptian Mry meaning Beloved for instance. Compare to the Gospel of John and the Beloved disciple....

Well the Jews had seven heavens and they were around before the Christians, long before.

And as I remember the Genesis accnt speaks of a few heavens,, so I am of the opinion that you suggesting the Roman Catholics made it up is not accurate.
They have done many wrong things, but making up a few heavens, not something I consider true.

As for languages, I am ungrateful so you dont need to explain yourself, fine.

Maybe Shah had its origins in Hebrew and the Persians copied it, I am ungrateful so you dont need to explain yourself.

I dipped my foot into the waters of language and it seems Hebrew was spoken before Persian, but, well you know

a reply to: borntowatch

Sorry for being a bit of a turd with you in my last response, I can be quite rude sometimes, sorry about my remark about you being unthankful, you're not unthankful all.

I was a bit quick when I blamed the Church for the seven heaven cosmology, but any way we twist it, it's all bollocks. There is but one space, and if we are to talk about multiverse theory (which I support btw), there are an infinite number of parallel universes that are kind of independent matrixes or dimensional continuums or energy highways within this single cosmic room or space.

But in archaic cosmology, the seven heavens are often thought of as shells or "spheres" (much like Niels Bohr's atomic model) and each such shell was dominated by it's given luminary or "wandering star". There are seven wandering stars visible to the naked eye, so the Sun had it's own heaven, the Moon too, and so did Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, they ruled one heaven each.

In early religious cosmologies, Earth was seen as a fixed point (ground floor of space so to speak) and was the centre of the universe (and Jerusalem was the centre of the Earth AND the universe) and this system of shells or "spheres" had angelic rulers, this is why there are seven arch angels and seven gates in the heavens. God was believed to have his abode above the seventh heaven.

But like I said earlier, all of this is bollocks. It was made up to fit archaic beliefs and were attempts at explaining the solar system in a way we don't even laugh of anymore, it's just plain silly and if anything it displays a hierarchy of religious agents of some sort. And people still believe in this crap, showing the immense conservational and reactionary power of religion. It wasn't until the eighties before the Pope finally said sorry to Copernicus and admitted the Sun was the centre of our local star system. The church still teach the old crap, though, and as it is with the Church it cannot make mistakes or go back on their canons, doctrines and verdicts, so all the old doctrines on cosmology are in fact still in effect.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well its a controversial subject and there is always animosity created.

I accept that you have a passion and I dont mind the occasional bitterness, it is justified sometimes.

As I understand it, the bible clearly teaches more than 1 heaven, the birds who fly in the heavens, the heavens where the stars exist and the heaven that Gods kingdom reigns within.As with all things written in the bible, there is a spiritual context and physical context, they must be separated. I just learned something about Gods kingdom I never knew so I can understand how confusing these issues are.

Irrespective there are many Christians who dont accept what the "Catholic" church teaches. Many are as bitter towards the Catholics as you and thats a shame.


Right or wrong (as your m theory may be) we should accept other peoples choices, as long as they respect you as a person
M theory, pie in the sky science. No offence, just dont see the proof. It could be true.
For mine, heaven is to be with God. Where? I dont care, just to be with God.

I come from a church where mistakes are often made and acknowledged, mostly learned from. Its called growth.
We all need growth.

Cool, nice chatting

originally posted by: borntowatch
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well its a controversial subject and there is always animosity created.

I accept that you have a passion and I dont mind the occasional bitterness, it is justified sometimes.

Yes, something like that

As I understand it, the bible clearly teaches more than 1 heaven, the birds who fly in the heavens, the heavens where the stars exist and the heaven that Gods kingdom reigns within.As with all things written in the bible, there is a spiritual context and physical context, they must be separated. I just learned something about Gods kingdom I never knew so I can understand how confusing these issues are.

Well, as far as I can see Hebrew and English have much the same concept of sky/heaven. There is the sky which is the air (atmosphere) we breathe in and the clouds, and there is space (where the stars and planets are).

Irrespective there are many Christians who dont accept what the "Catholic" church teaches. Many are as bitter towards the Catholics as you and thats a shame.

Well, the RC Church is a time colourite, the immense power and integrity they received from Satan and his empires, have finally diminished and the Church is back where it started, existing humbly between people on grass root level, without the vast political, war-mongering, "law"-enforcing and economic elements that dragged the Church into the silt in Hell's bedrock. If the Church is to survive, it must be decentralised and live in people's hearts and minds, rather than in multi-billion dollar facilities with no purpose other than displaying power and superiority.

Right or wrong (as your m theory may be) we should accept other peoples choices, as long as they respect you as a person
M theory, pie in the sky science. No offence, just dont see the proof. It could be true.
For mine, heaven is to be with God. Where? I dont care, just to be with God.

Well, I actually learned about multiverse theory long after I had developed similar systems after I started rationalising, trying to explain my daily experience in similar fashion. The way I see it, every man has his own world, and we can move quite freely between those worlds. I developed a system based on "time-rooms" (not to be confused by space-time as such), a kind of bubbles we live in, and when transitioning from one time-room into another one of several things may happen, we can travel physically back and forth in time and space, or our consciousness can move from one person to another, leaving your own body idle. That's how all the madness in the world happens and this is how I explain possessions and several illnesses. Our dreams are actually real, only we don't simulate the world "correctly" in our dreams, but when we dream we remote control other people in other times and worlds, explaining how many people have no recollection of traumatic events, or things like killing your spouse and so on -- they weren't the ones doing the stuff their bodies did, but their bodies might have been "spirit-driven" by other entities, mostly people sleeping, but also awake through majick and ritual use of certain drugs and through meditation. Projects like MK Ultra and the similar systems USSR constructed, and Solomonian and Crowleyan majick, Woodoo and so on, all methods of directing entities to perform work through remote control. I've experienced it working on many occasions, and it is as simple as ordering pizza.

I come from a church where mistakes are often made and acknowledged, mostly learned from. Its called growth.
We all need growth.

Agreed.

Cool, nice chatting

Same here, and sorry for the flaming, you didn't deserve that.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim


Well, the RC Church is a time colourite, the immense power and integrity they received from Satan and his empires, have finally diminished and the Church is back where it started, existing humbly between people on grass root level, without the vast political, war-mongering, "law"-enforcing and economic elements that dragged the Church into the silt in Hell's bedrock. If the Church is to survive, it must be decentralised and live in people's hearts and minds, rather than in multi-billion dollar facilities with no purpose other than displaying power and superiority.

Well if I may i will disagree again, (this is my assumption) the Roman church is not on the slide, it has grown in more power and control than ever before.
They have just become more media savy and secretive.
Rather than spend time warring and politicking, they have spent their time setting themselves in to position for their offensive. Laying low, rearming and preparing.
They are now the masters of their domain, at the cusp of world domination.
Yes it a war.


The true church though, if I may quote a person with a good understanding of what Christ came to do is
"decentralised and lives in people's hearts and minds"
It does exist, it is alive, just not in the Vatican

Its good we disagree and can still respect each other

Cheers

a reply to: borntowatch

I would rather focus on how I'm living my life and growing as a spiritual person instead of focusing on other peoples faults.

This thread is why organized religion is such a turn off to me, being thankful and hoping for other people to end up in hell. That's so negative!

a reply to: borntowatch

We can always agree to disagree, but looking at the prophecies, I am willing to bet the Vatican will burn and be levelled and destroyed within a lifetime, possibly much earlier.

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: borntowatch

I would rather focus on how I'm living my life and growing as a spiritual person instead of focusing on other peoples faults.

This thread is why organized religion is such a turn off to me, being thankful and hoping for other people to end up in hell. That's so negative!

NO
I am not hoping any one ends up in hell, I am not focusing on others faults, I am being general and also trying to explain why hell must exist.

It has nothing to do with organised religion,its an explanation as to why hell must exist, justice.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
a reply to: borntowatch

We can always agree to disagree, but looking at the prophecies, I am willing to bet the Vatican will burn and be levelled and destroyed within a lifetime, possibly much earlier.

Naah, I wont take that bet, not even with good odds.

I could say we can only live in hope you are right, but then that would be a judgement, so Gods will be done.

a reply to: borntowatch

Now that the Roman Empire seems to finally rest in peace, the other heads of the Beast have become more prominent, and according to Revelation the Beast with it's horns will torch Rome (or the Vatican):

And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. [ESV] Revelation 17:16f

Today other heads of the Beast are dominating: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media and Persia. That looks very much like IS (former ISIL or ISIS). If anyone around today would fulfil such a prophecy, I believe it would be IS.

The scenario is terrible, think about the priceless art and those magnificent buildings.... Unlike you I would join the choir weeping over her destiny.

Then a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea [ESV] Revelation 18:21

The above quote is a reference to the words of Jesus (unlike the words of Paul, the words of Jesus will prevail), and reveals the reason why Babylon is destroyed:

It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin. [ESV] Luke 17:2

Babylon, which is the Church and the Vatican, will fall because they mess with "the little ones". Not only is that a reference to children, but also Saul Paulus. Saul means "Asked" or "Questioned", while Paulus means "The little one". Go figure....

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

The scenario is terrible, think about the priceless art and those magnificent buildings.... Unlike you I would join the choir weeping over her destiny.

Yes it is horrific, the future for those who make their choice.
The art and buildings, meh, its not so relevant to me.

Comes a point in life where the weight of the worlds sin, my own, just becomes to much.
What will happen will happen.
I just want it over, just want Christ to return and bring justice.