I thank God for hell

a reply to: borntowatch

Let me clarify to you that I am not with any religion on Earth. However, my teachings are Universal and can have attributes from all religions and from no religions at all. Do not make comparisons between "my God" and "your God," for there is no difference. We are all ONE. The idea of separation from God is a Dualistic nature--the mentality of Good and Evil. It is true that we live in a Good and Evil world. This is because in the 3rd and 4th Dimensions, God has been split into Dual aspects, where in Heaven (the 5th Dimension and higher), there is ONLY ONE. We are still ONE, but the illusory separation allows us to learn how to merge the ONE Great Spirit back into Unity Consciousness. It is our Grand Lesson and Most important mission on physical Earth. Remember, there is only ONE Great Spirit Moving into All of Creation.

Remember that "punishment" and "judgement" are from the Mind of Man, not the Mind of God. When we came here, our Mind has developed an Ego System that can only think in Good and Evil, Left and Right, White and Black. Within the Mind of God, there is no such thing as good nor evil. It is an existence of Purity and Oneness. It just is. It just be.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Hinduism as I understand teaches that we are all part of god, thats an interesting concept.

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:8
He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Yes, we are a part of God, but the part of God within us is The Love within us, that is why it is important to be more and more Loving.

originally posted by: borntowatch
My issue is justice, my God is a God of Justice, your god is a breeze, a mistral, travelling anywhere and everywhere, directionless.

That's because he understands The Spirit, Jesus said the same thing here:

1 John 5:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

originally posted by: borntowatch
My God has a purpose and plan for humanity, yours has nothing to offer but a mouse wheel existence.
Life then death, learning, life then death, learning, life then death. If your life was poor, you are born into a worse life, that you deserve. Endless, no escape.

There is an escape, he talked about that escape being to leave 'duality' (this world that is always changing) and find 'oneness' (unity) with God (who is perfect).

But, you must first find out where The Kingdom of God is:

Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

originally posted by: borntowatch
No you are welcome to believe what you choose, but our gods are not the same. Mine is a single God, apart from me,

If you still believe that God is apart from you then you didn't realize the Truth about The Kingdom of God being within you as Jesus said in Luke 17:21, and that's alright, you will realize when you do.

originally posted by: borntowatch
who will judge the living and the dead for their actions on this planet.
There will be rewards and punishments

True, actions do have consequences:

For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

This is why Jesus said

Matthew 5:7
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

You get what you give. You will reap the fruits of the seeds you've sown.

This is why Jesus encouraged us to be merciful (forgiving):

Luke 6:36
Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Luke 6:37
Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

My God is A Merciful God full of Forgiveness, not abandoning me, but is within me; because God is within us, it is important to keep our hearts open with Forgiveness rather than closing our hearts because if we do that then we also separate ourselves from The Kingdom of God within.

This is probably why Jesus said:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Sow the seeds of Forgiveness and Love and reap the Fruits of Forgiveness and Love

a reply to: borntowatch

How could satan offer God what was already His?

So by this I have to take it you mean that Satan owns the earth, and not God.
Then what that sounds like to me is that you consider Satan to be God, and the one who people normally call God, as some interloper who is just trying to gather up someone else's people for His own personal reasons.

"Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

In Ezra 1, it says:

In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:

“This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:

“ ‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah.
(2011 NIV)

That sounds like it is saying that God has the power to give to who He chooses, the kingdoms of the world.
I would say that the devil was lying, trying to claim for himself what only God has the power to do.
If Jesus actually believed the devil had that power, he would have accepted him as God, which he didn't, so we should not believe the devil either.

As I understand it
Jesus has gone to prepare a place for those who serve Him, Jesus is talking to those who call Him Lord and Saviour, not everyone on earth.

This is a reference to John 14:2.
The main part of the sentence is "My Father's house has many rooms".
Elsewhere in the New Testament, Jesus called the temple his father's house,
In the Gospel of John, Jesus says that:

“believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
. . .
Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”
(2011 NIV)

So if people previously worshiped God in one place, the temple, and that ceases, but people are still worshiping him, then you could look at that as if God went from "His house" being a single room, to there being many, as many as there are people who worship Him in spirit.

Jesus' "going" was to not be there in person, thus forcing the thing that was the goal, to have people connected to him in the spirit.
What this means was that Jesus' physical presence was a hindrance to the type of presence God wanted, which is inside of us.

Jesus' "coming again" in the Greek is in the present tense, and he adds to that the fact (in the past tense) that they know the way, which I would take to mean that they understand that he means spiritually.

. . . I think there is a place called hell and those outside of Christ (many Christians as well), will be sent away from Gods presence.

None of us are in God's presence to start with, in order to be "sent away".
You are probably thinking of the parables of Jesus which are all about God's rejection of physical Israel for its rejection of Jesus, and is never about individual people, or hell.

and finally, its not my solution,its a solution I accept because I believe God is just

Read the second part of Romans 3, where Paul goes to a lot of trouble arguing that God is just despite not destroying people who do not keep the law as it was understood by the Jews.
You seem to be flipping Paul's argument up side down to argue that God can only be just by destroying those lawless people.
There is only one solution to the sin problem presented in the New Testament, which is faith in Jesus.
What you are doing is substituting your own theories and rejecting the actual biblical teachings.

My recommendation is for you to repent of your sins and to ask Jesus into your heart and to pray for God to cleanse you of all your human invented cult doctrines, and that the Holy Spirit would enlighten you to the true meaning of the scripture.

a reply to: arpgme


So God isnt going to be judge and hold man accountable for their sin

Thats a interesting concept

originally posted by: ctophil
a reply to: borntowatch

Let me clarify to you that I am not with any religion on Earth. However, my teachings are Universal and can have attributes from all religions and from no religions at all. Do not make comparisons between "my God" and "your God," for there is no difference. We are all ONE. The idea of separation from God is a Dualistic nature--the mentality of Good and Evil. It is true that we live in a Good and Evil world. This is because in the 3rd and 4th Dimensions, God has been split into Dual aspects, where in Heaven (the 5th Dimension and higher), there is ONLY ONE. We are still ONE, but the illusory separation allows us to learn how to merge the ONE Great Spirit back into Unity Consciousness. It is our Grand Lesson and Most important mission on physical Earth. Remember, there is only ONE Great Spirit Moving into All of Creation.

Remember that "punishment" and "judgement" are from the Mind of Man, not the Mind of God. When we came here, our Mind has developed an Ego System that can only think in Good and Evil, Left and Right, White and Black. Within the Mind of God, there is no such thing as good nor evil. It is an existence of Purity and Oneness. It just is. It just be.

Please let me clarify something to you, you dont choose who I worship, who my God is.

There is a huge difference, I serve the one true God.
Your God is from your imagination, a lego man you built, or was built from chakras and spirits unknown.

If punishment and judgement are from the mind, why does everyone suffer. Your beliefs allow evil to flourish, nay they encourage evil, they perpetuate evil, open the door for evil to flow freely. Then what? It ends? The evil perpetrators are set free, given another chance, slap on the back and a go det them again.
Hopeless. Hope.....Less
Your law is satans law. Do what you want, there is no condemnation, no rules, no judgement.

It seems you dont have a God, you have an existence. If thats what you want then thats good for you.

Please dont assume that you have THE teaching and suffer it upon me.
I can accept and agree with an atheist not accepting my God, have the courtesy to accept that I believe different, dont make me a subject of your imagination.

originally posted by: borntowatch
a reply to: arpgme


So God isnt going to be judge and hold man accountable for their sin

Thats a interesting concept

I didn't say there was no judgment at all, or that man is not accountable for their own wrongdoings. Isn't it a sin to bear false witness? You are saying things which I did not say. It seems like you were looking for something to criticize and judge, because that was the only comment you made to my entire post.

Remember this:

God's justice was to send His Son to die for us.

Two questions:

After Death and Hell (the grave, actually) have been cast into the Lake of Fire (as stated in the Revelation), how can anyone be dead and in hell?

If most of humanity is in Hell forever, how can God ever become All in all (as stated in the Bible)?

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Remember this:

God's justice was to send His Son to die for us.

Two questions:

After Death and Hell (the grave, actually) have been cast into the Lake of Fire (as stated in the Revelation), how can anyone be dead and in hell?

If most of humanity is in Hell forever, how can God ever become All in all (as stated in the Bible)?

Its an interesting though with a lot of valid scripture to support what you say.

Though some have been accused of heresy for going down that path, not that I think its a heresy, I think every thing should be discussed openly and sincerely.

If God is just?

Anyway you should find some valid scripture and start a thread

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Nicely put

I am in complete agreement

Borntowatch I am thankful for hell also. Its just that I see hell as the refining fire of God's presence that burns away all the wood, hay, stubble, dross, evil, darkness (fire was a main source of light), disease (fire and brimstone are used to purify)… so that God may be All in All.

originally posted by: borntowatch
Anyway you should find some valid scripture and start a thread

I have, and it falls mostly on deaf ears. "Hell" has become an idol, or at least, an icon. You seem open, however, so here is some more light:

Consider how God made man - He made a non-living body, and breathed into it the Breath of Life. That infusion of breath, spirit, life force made for life, consciousness, everything. Man became a living Soul. BTW, that means that you don't HAVE a soul, but that you ARE one.

Now, deconstruct. When you die, your once-living body returns to the dust. Your Spirit returns to God, as that is part of Him, His portion. Your Soul, oops, does not go anywhere since you are a soul. It just goes "poof!" and is no more. So then, what part of you gets sent to Hell? Do you see the utter absurdity of sending a dead body to Hell? Do you see the near-blasphemy of suggesting that God would send part of His own Spirit to Hell? Further, how is your now-non-existant Soul going to be sent to Hell?

The foundations of Hell are more shaky than most folks realise...and I'm just skimming the surface.

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Nicely put

I am in complete agreement

Borntowatch I am thankful for hell also. Its just that I see hell as the refining fire of God's presence that burns away all the wood, hay, stubble, dross, evil, darkness (fire was a main source of light), disease (fire and brimstone are used to purify)… so that God may be All in All.

Thank you, Zardust! You have stated how God's refining fire refines us, just as I have also. BTW, God also refers to Himself as "soap," which would be another cleansing agent.

Hell it is Helios I tell you. I should know, for it is my soul, and it's gift is Life and All, but can be quite unkind, mind you. It is the Tree in the Middle of Paradise we know so well. Nowadays we have the means and ways to travel the distance, and the retrograde behaviour of the planets we observe from Earth, is the blazing sword of Uriel, guarding the path to the Heavens, and to Sol, the Tree of Life. If we are to believe the Bible, it will take Leviathan 1000 years to get equipped to physically explore it under it's surface and return whole. Eventhough there are ways out of Hell, Hell is not and never will be a way out. And though it is pleasant from afar, it is THE most destructive thing in our cosmic neighbourhood. It's a mystery worth exploring.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

God's justice was to send His Son to die for us.

God demonstrates His righteousness by providing for humanity a way that they can become righteous, which is through faith in Jesus.
It is not His executing justice.
This has been given over by God to His son, Jesus, who judges.

After Death and Hell (the grave, actually) have been cast into the Lake of Fire (as stated in the Revelation), how can anyone be dead and in hell?

The literal "grave" is where the physical body goes, where it no longer needs to breath air.
The spirit body does to Hades, also where air is unnecessary, so it can be in the center of the earth, where temperature and pressure are also irrelevant.
Revelation is a series of allusions made in the form of visions, and not to be taken literally.
The main point of Revelation is the rise of Christianity as a thing.
Belief in Jesus makes Hades itself irrelevant in that it no longer has the power to hold people's spirits forever.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

Jesus was human and He died, three days latter He returned.
Christians wait for the bodily resurrection.

I believe some what different to you in that there is more to this earth and what we comprehend.
Hell is real and many will be sent there.

In the Garden were two trees.
The one of knowledge of good and evil, the other

God said He was righteous and He will judge, the judgement would be pointless with out a sentence.

a reply to: borntowatch

the judgement would be pointless with out a sentence.

A sentence would be pointless without a period.

The wages of is sin is death, period.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: borntowatch

the judgement would be pointless with out a sentence.

A sentence would be pointless without a period.

Yes, a sentence without a period would never end...

Unless of course it ended with a ! or a ? that is

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: borntowatch

the judgement would be pointless with out a sentence.

A sentence would be pointless without a period.

Yes, a sentence without a period would never end...

Unless of course it ended with a ! or a ? that is

Ah.....Of course, but, a "!" and a "?" both, fortunately, contain periods, so we don't have to do this for eternity. Thank Odin for punctuation.......

originally posted by: borntowatch
a reply to: Lazarus Short

Jesus was human and He died, three days latter He returned.
Christians wait for the bodily resurrection.

I believe some what different to you in that there is more to this earth and what we comprehend.
Hell is real and many will be sent there.

In the Garden were two trees.
The one of knowledge of good and evil, the other

God said He was righteous and He will judge, the judgement would be pointless with out a sentence.

What if that Judgment was simply that the judged needs more refining, and that in the Lake of Fire? God's Law as given to Moses, never demands a punishment worse than simple death. Given how horrible Hell is said to be, don't you think a lot more would be said about it in the Bible if it were real?

Further, yes God is a Judge, and more righteous than you or I can imagine. Being so, can you reconcile perfect righteousness with a sentence of endless punishment for temporal sins?

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
Further, yes God is a Judge, and more righteous than you or I can imagine. Being so, can you reconcile perfect righteousness with a sentence of endless punishment for temporal sins?

Yes I think endless hell would be unjust, though I am not the one making the call.
I have issues with the endless part myself and have read text that may suggest hell is temporary.
Not something I would argue or endorse.
I know God is just

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: borntowatch

the judgement would be pointless with out a sentence.

A sentence would be pointless without a period.

Yes, a sentence without a period would never end...

Unless of course it ended with a ! or a ? that is

Ah.....Of course, but, a "!" and a "?" both, fortunately, contain periods, so we don't have to do this for eternity. Thank Odin for punctuation.......

Ah, but of course. I get *the point*