Alternative history - The East if Nazi Germany had won

a reply to: paraphi

- South America and unaligned.

Most of the South American countries were Franco style dictatorships sympathetic to Fascism. It would probably be the scene of Cold War style proxy wars, with the United States facing off against a new Spanish Empire, starting in the Caribbean with Cuba, then practically a 51st state.

a reply to: HarbingerOfShadows

No, the Death Camps and "The Final Solution" started the US's entry into the war.

The United States did not enter WWII to save the victims of the Holocaust.

Germany planned to live in the world as a regular country after victory over the Soviet Union. As the slayers of the communist menace, Churchill might have liked that after a while. The NAZI's planned to keep European Russia and leave Asian Russia to the USSR.

The first solution to the Jewish and Slavic problem was probably planned deportation in 1942.

The Final solution happened after the National Socialists were not able to win the expected, fast, decisive, and redeeming victory against the largest mechanized army in the history of the world, supplied by the richest country in the history of the world.

From the conspiracy point of view, with Hitler as an agent for a New World Order cabal, I suppose most everything about WWI, the Great Depression, and WWII could have been planned. The conspiracy theory would explain a lot of big mistakes.

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Oh please, there are better things to do than to debate with someone who can't act like an adult.

Also, I gave no "rebuttal" as you made no point I was addressing.

originally posted by: paraphi
Sticking with the OP assumption that Nazi Germany had prevailed...

You have to remember that the US only entered the war after Germany declared war on them and the Japanese had played the Pearl Harbor gamble. Up until then the US wanted to keep out of war - preferring to profiteer from the sales to the UK and watch their economic rival (the UK) be sapped dry.

Germany's goals were the same as WW1, that of to kill off Russia and subdue France. Had they done so, and taken Western Europe - including the UK - then chances are they would have stopped, as that was their objective. There was no objective to "rule the world".

The Empire of Japan would have picked off the remains of the British Empire in the Far East, and all the possessions of the invaded Western European states, although whether they would have been able to take India is questionable.

The US, as a neutral and without direct provocation, would have stayed that way. However, they would have reached an accord with the belligerent nations to preserve some vestige of world order.

The world today would then have become.

- The USA and remnants of the British Empire un-quelled (India, Australia, Canada, South Africa etc) - probably aligned to the USA. This would constitute the Free Democratic World.
- Europe and Russia under Nazi dominion. Picked clean of Jews and other "undesirables". This would constitute an oppressive dictatorship similar to what Stalin achieved. One wonders whether it would have failed like Soviet Communism though.
- Empire of Japan covering China, Burma and all places in between. This would - like Europe, be one vast dictatorship.
- South America and unaligned.
- Africa divvied with Germany the new colonial master in most places. Doubtful that Germany would have undertaken decolonisation like the British, so probably not a nice place to be.

Some people on these Boards would celebrate that Israel would not exist. However, the Middle East under German and Italian occupation would be pretty cruel.

The world would be a terrible place to live in for many people.

Regards

We would have gone to war with Germany in short order even if Japan hadn't done their gamble. FDR wanted war with Germany from the outset and we were already engaged in an undeclared war in the north Atlantic long before Pearl Harbor.

In July 1941, in a top secret memo to Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Harold Stark, President Roosevelt authorized the Atlantic Fleet to change from defensive to offensive operations, writing, in part, “…the presence of any German submarine or raider should be dealt with by action looking to the elimination of such ‘threat of attack’ on the lines of communication, or close to it.”

www.defensemedianetwork.com... ries/undeclared-war-in-the-atlantic-the-u-s-navy-versus-the-u-boats/

United States Western Hemisphere Security Zone (April 1941)
The 300-mile Western Hemisphere Security Zone on April 10, 1941. was extended to 26°W longitude including Greenland and the Azores April 10, 1941). This extended the area east in which the U.S. Navy was authorized to escort convoys to Britain. Escorting convoys meant that America was entering an undecalred naval war with Germany in the North Atlantic. The Red Sea was also removed from list of forbidden combat zones, allowing lend-lease supplies to reach the British in North Africa.


Niblank Incident (April 1941)
The U.S. destroyer Niblack on April 11 fired 3 depth charges at a German U-boat, the first such action by a U.S. Navy vessel, beginning an undeclared naval war. Notably there was no surge in war sentiment among the American public as a result of this and subsequent incidents. This was afact that President Roosevelt who closely watched the public opinion polls.

histclo.com...

Now, I'm not making a values judgment about trying to get into a war with Germany at the time, just pointing out a little known historical fact.

a reply to: Auricom

You will find there was no exageration on my part, Look up his testimony.
Excerpt,
DR. KAUFFMANN: Is it furthermore true that Eichmann stated to you that in Auschwitz a total sum of more than 2 million Jews had been destroyed?
HOESS: Yes.
From this page, law2.umkc.edu...
More on the transcript but remember this was his actual trial testimony not what he had told investigator's prior.
en.wikipedia.org...
I have no doubt this is true.
This was only one of the death camp's, the one that the most people out of all were murdered at but still only one of them, remember also they murdered any german's they thought of as defective as well and if the figures for nazi euthenasia were added they would be far higher again as that went on for over a decade.
I personally wish the human race was incapable of spawning such evil but unfortunately it is not only capable but it seem's that they are walking around even today among us and it is our duty to make certain they NEVER gain that kind of power, So if the storys of modern detention camp's and population culling plans are true then we must be the one's that stand against them or for what did all these innocent people die, there death's can never be avenged but they can be honoured by performing just and correct police actions against such tyrant's no matter how powerful or wealthy they may be today or tomorrow.

a reply to: starwarsisreal

your too late , the jack boots have already taken over and apart from recording them in action , no one has done anything about it .