Genetic Engineering and Revelation

I was reading one of the evolution threads on this board and how humans are genetically modifying wheat and other grains. I guess this is to make them more resilient to dry weather and possibly bugs etc, however, scientist really have no idea how this could effect humans and more importantly insects.

There is a massive locus plague in Africa at the moment (somewhere) and a smaller one in Australia. (I even have some in my garden).

This led my mind to wonder about revelation and what the Bible says will happen in the last days.

Revelation 9:3

�And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. 9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.�

Is it possible that genetically modified wheat could have an effect on locus so that they deform and turn into scorpion / locus creatures that can hurt people? Any smart scientist out there that can comment?

It is a pretty scary verse. I thought I would try to join some dots!

Anybody else have any theories on this verse?

I was reading one of the evolution threads on this board and how humans are genetically modifying wheat and other grains. I guess this is to make them more resilient to dry weather and possibly bugs etc, however, scientist really have no idea how this could effect humans and more importantly insects.

There is a massive locus plague in Africa at the moment (somewhere) and a smaller one in Australia. (I even have some in my garden).

This led my mind to wonder about revelation and what the Bible says will happen in the last days.

Revelation 9:3

�And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. 9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.�

Is it possible that genetically modified wheat could have an effect on locus so that they deform and turn into scorpion / locus creatures that can hurt people? Any smart scientist out there that can comment?

It is a pretty scary verse. I thought I would try to join some dots!

Anybody else have any theories on this verse?

Schmick, I�ve thought about this post, and gone back and forth about replying, and gone back and forth about what my opinion re: the �most correct� answer is. In my opinion, this is not likely to happen. I suppose it could happen given a scenario such as the following: The genes for deforming and turning into this scorpion/locust hybrid are already present, and some how repressed, or somehow encoded in a �reading frame� not normally transcribed by the cell. This protein, the product of genetic engineering, has some property that causes it to induce expression of repressed genes, or causes a different reading frame to be transcribed/translated. In a scenario such as this, I suppose you could get rapid morphological changes. I should add that I don�t believe any evidence for this exists. I mean certainly multiple proteins are encoded in different reading frames of the same gene. This is how viruses are able to compact their genome so completely, but so far there is no evidence of genetically engineered proteins altering expression patterns of particular genes, with the exception of normal responses, such as immune responses.

However, being a person of faith you don�t need to rely on such explanations. Just curious, but why are you interested in explaining things scientifically that can be explained supernaturally? Also, are those interpretations thought to be literal, or are they prose applied in an effort to accurately convey the horror of the plague? Interested in your thoughts/comments.

Hi Mattison,

Thanks for the post. I was hoping you would look at it twice! It was interesting reading what you said. Are you an academic? What is your exact discipline?

It is obvious that I am not a scientist, however it does not mean that I am not interested in the discussion and what science can achieve, seeing my father was a science teacher at school.

I will address some of what you have said then add some more. Ok?

However, being a person of faith you don�t need to rely on such explanations.

You are 100% correct. I can believe that God has the powers to make such creatures without batting an eye lid. The reason why I wanted a scientific explanation was because Revelation is somewhat cryptic with its prophecies. I believe that God can use what man does to fulfil prophecy. Certainly in the Bible it says that in the end days, knowledge will increase. This is a general fact as we see the advances of the last 100 years.

Back to the verse: "and their faces were as the faces of men" Could this mean that they were created by man? Does it have to be a literal translation?

I make no attempts to conceal the fact that I am wildly guessing here, however I was thinking about where man is going with its dive into genetics and it just sprang to mind.

Just curious, but why are you interested in explaining things scientifically that can be explained supernaturally?

I am interested in being educated enough to know what science can explain and can not explain. I think God gave us brains to use, and I do believe that science does not need to disprove the existence of God. I am aware of scientists that have started to believe in God simply because they can not deny what they have discovered can only be explained as a complex design by a master creator. Science as you know has a lot of theories. But can it accurately answer everything?

For instance, scientifically explain this to me: When I was a baby, a crawled under the back wheel of dad�s car (out of sight of my father). He was about to drive to work and reverse out of the drive way and did not have a clue I was sitting behind the wheel. Just as he was about to drive out, he heard a voice in his head 'get out and check under the car'. He initially thought he was imagining things so decided to ignore what he heard. The voice once again told him to check under the car. This time he didn�t ignore it. He hopped out and there I was.

Can I offer any proof that voices spoke in dad�s head? Nope. Can I say that it was a chemical imbalance in dad�s head that caused him to hear voices? Possibly. Can I have faith and give God the credit for this? If I choose to recognise it was a miraculous supernatural act.

This is only one story. There are many more miraculous things that happen in my life and those of people I know that science can not explain.

Also, are those interpretations thought to be literal, or are they prose applied in an effort to accurately convey the horror of the plague?

I was thinking about this some more after I read your post. Revelations speaks metaphorically so it is hard to understand what is literal and what is not. At the same time, it was a vision to a guy that lived 2000 years ago, so you have to try to get into his head what these visions would have looked like to him. I guess I am looking at this story from both sides of the fence.

I know that I read on a news site a while ago that scientist were working on a tree that would grow fruit that had the texture and taste of that of meat. Also dad was saying how they genetically modify wheat and strawberries by placing animal DNA into them in order to make the grain / fruit more resilient to things. I find this a little scary.

If they are doing it on this scale, what is stopping the military from experimenting with killer insects capable of maiming or kill an enemy or population like they are experimenting with other forms of germ warfare?

Thanks for the post. I was hoping you would look at it twice!

It was interesting reading what you said. Are you an academic? What is your exact discipline?

I currently maintain adjunct affiliations at a local college, generally teach intro bio courses, genetics (molecular NOT Mendelian), advanced cell biology, and very occasionally biochemistry. I am currently working the biodefense field. My undergrad is in biochem, and my Ph.D. is in Molecular and Cellular Biology.

It is obvious that I am not a scientist, however it does not mean that I am not interested in the discussion and what science can achieve, seeing my father was a science teacher at school.

Fair enough� I certainly didn�t mean to offend.

I will address some of what you have said then add some more. Ok?

Absolutely!

However, being a person of faith you don�t need to rely on such explanations.

You are 100% correct. I can believe that God has the powers to make such creatures without batting an eye lid. The reason why I wanted a scientific explanation was because Revelation is somewhat cryptic with its prophecies. I believe that God can use what man does to fulfil prophecy.

This is an interesting concept. Many people don�t agree. I personally believe that a creation deity would use all means available, including those that are NOT in the realm of the supernatural. I�ve always thought this, but most disagree with me, and I�m not enough of a theologian to argue otherwise.

Certainly in the Bible it says that in the end days, knowledge will increase. This is a general fact as we see the advances of the last 100 years.

I�ve also heard from �street corner Christians� that in the end of days all will have had the opportunity to hear His (one assumes they are talking about Jesus) word, and that somehow this is important.

Just curious, but why are you interested in explaining things scientifically that can be explained supernaturally?

I am interested in being educated enough to know what science can explain and can not explain.

Well then more power to you... that�s more than can be said for many here.

I think God gave us brains to use, and I do believe that science does not need to disprove the existence of God.

Science can�t disprove the existence of God.

I am aware of scientists that have started to believe in God simply because they can not deny what they have discovered can only be explained as a complex design by a master creator. Science as you know has a lot of theories. But can it accurately answer everything?

As I understand it, the number of scientists who believe in God has remained steady over x number of years� can�t remember what x is, but it�s a while. And no, science can�t accurately answer everything, maybe not even most things.

For instance, scientifically explain this to me: When I was a baby, a crawled under the back wheel of dad�s car (out of sight of my father). He was about to drive to work and reverse out of the drive way and did not have a clue I was sitting behind the wheel. Just as he was about to drive out, he heard a voice in his head 'get out and check under the car'. He initially thought he was imagining things so decided to ignore what he heard. The voice once again told him to check under the car. This time he didn�t ignore it. He hopped out and there I was.

Can I offer any proof that voices spoke in dad�s head? Nope. Can I say that it was a chemical imbalance in dad�s head that caused him to hear voices? Possibly. Can I have faith and give God the credit for this? If I choose to recognise it was a miraculous supernatural act.

Can�t explain it� you should consider the work of Dr. Masura Emoto. His website can be accessed at www.hado.net. While most people dismiss his work as new age quackery, I personally find it fascinating. Emoto�s work has led him to believe that water is some kind of universal ethereal substance, that despite it�s seemingly random orientation, actually contains info. Incidentally, patterned things, like crystals don�t contain complex information. Emoto might hypothesize that somehow the information that you were under the car was conveyed to your father via water molecules. Emoto also believes that this could be the source of observed psychic phenomena including ghosts and remote sensing.

This is only one story. There are many more miraculous things that happen in my life and those of people I know that science can not explain.

What would be the fun if everything could be explained?

Also, are those interpretations thought to be literal, or are they prose applied in an effort to accurately convey the horror of the plague?

I was thinking about this some more after I read your post. Revelations speaks metaphorically so it is hard to understand what is literal and what is not. At the same time, it was a vision to a guy that lived 2000 years ago, so you have to try to get into his head what these visions would have looked like to him. I guess I am looking at this story from both sides of the fence.

Well, you�re probably better off having that attitude.

I know that I read on a news site a while ago that scientist were working on a tree that would grow fruit that had the texture and taste of that of meat. Also dad was saying how they genetically modify wheat and strawberries by placing animal DNA into them in order to make the grain / fruit more resilient to things. I find this a little scary.

Certainly, I am aware of the large number of genetic engineering experiments going on. Not just in plants, but animals, microorganisms, you name it. I am freaked out by this on several levels. Genetic engineering itself doesn�t bother me, after all, we�re only using tools already provided to us by nature. What does scare me is the nonchalant attitude that many scientists take towards genetic engineering. Many actually believe it�s INCAPABLE of doing harm. I�m not sure if that makes more angry or sad. I believe that strawberries are getting anti-freeze genes, probably among others. I recently read that they genetically engineered a less hot habenero. I can�t imagine why, eat a jalapeno if you can�t take it. Seems like a waste of time and valuable scientific resources to me.

If they are doing it on this scale, what is stopping the military from experimenting with killer insects capable of maiming or kill an enemy or population like they are experimenting with other forms of germ warfare?

Hmmm�. Probably the same thing that�s prevented the military from doing whatever the hell they want throughout history�. Nothing.

Interesting link. Not sure what to think though

So, out of curiosity, what is your philosophical stance with science and religion? I sense that you have some interest in philosophical topics.

Certainly, I am aware of the large number of genetic engineering experiments going on. Not just in plants, but animals, microorganisms, you name it. I am freaked out by this on several levels. Genetic engineering itself doesn�t bother me, after all, we�re only using tools already provided to us by nature. What does scare me is the nonchalant attitude that many scientists take towards genetic engineering. Many actually believe it�s INCAPABLE of doing harm. I�m not sure if that makes more angry or sad. I believe that strawberries are getting anti-freeze genes, probably among others. I recently read that they genetically engineered a less hot habenero. I can�t imagine why, eat a jalapeno if you can�t take it. Seems like a waste of time and valuable scientific resources to me.

Have you heard of the research they are doing regarding the aging gene? Apparently scientists have discovered a gene that triggers aging and if they can figure out how this works, it could be possible to slow or eliminate the signs of aging. Whether or not this will make humans live longer is debatable!

The Bible references the fact that humans will live about three score and ten (70 years) and this does seem to be the average.

It is interesting that some animals live to such great years still.. like the tortus. Why them and not us?

This is an interesting concept. Many people don�t agree. I personally believe that a creation deity would use all means available, including those that are NOT in the realm of the supernatural. I�ve always thought this, but most disagree with me, and I�m not enough of a theologian to argue otherwise.

The Bible has many instances where God has chosen to do something supernatural with nature and man made things.

In the old testament, the story goes that there were numerous snakes that were poisoning the Jews. God told mosses to build an image of a snake. Those that looked at the snake would be cured from any snake bites.

There are also other miraculous transformations like water into wine, water into blood, staff into snake etc It is interesting to note that most of the 'wonders' of Christ seemed to be in the healing of people. Making the blind see, deaf hear, lame walk etc. This makes me believe that Christ thought that life was valuable and living a full and healthy life is a priority.

Fair enough� I certainly didn�t mean to offend.

None taken.

it could happen, but when in the Bible it talks of this, why not just think that God made the animal the way it was without first letting it be changed by eating chemicals and all dat jazz? seems a lot simpler to just belive it the way it tells.

And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
it is a plauge, and like the other plauges, God causes them, not man.

just like a global earthquake, its not man's scientific jazz, but uinstead God himself doing it, thats how I take it.

Interesting link. Not sure what to think though

I hear you. I don�t know what to make of it either, this might be why I am always asking people to check it out. None of my colleagues have any interest, nor do they offer any explanation. Assuming Emoto�s not just making this up, it could be important. It bugs me so much when I see things like this that I can�t explain. I was consumed with this for a while, but I�ve kind of left it behind now.

So, out of curiosity, what is your philosophical stance with science and religion? I sense that you have some interest in philosophical topics.

Not a huge believer in organized religions. Am still very �touchy-feely� about these philosophical issues. I have great interest in them, as science can�t answer all my questions. Since I don�t believe in spontaneous generation of cells, I believe in some sort of as yet undefined creative energy or force.

Have you heard of the research they are doing regarding the aging gene? Apparently scientists have discovered a gene that triggers aging and if they can figure out how this works, it could be possible to slow or eliminate the signs of aging. Whether or not this will make humans live longer is debatable!

Yeah, I�ve heard this. I have to say that I am not a big proponent of the �genes control your behavior� nor am I big proponent of the idea of the �obesity gene� or the �alcoholic gene.� I feel pretty much the same way about the idea of an aging gene. I should note that you as a Christian, might be interested in this due to the Noah lived for 900 years thing. I personally don�t believe the answer lies there. I�ve posted this idea multiple times in the other threads that I know you read. Perhaps you only gloss over my posts, as they can be quite lengthy. No matter either way, but the point is this: The advanced ages in the Bible needn�t be explained away by any aging gene. If evolution doesn�t exist, it means that the human genetic code is in a constant state of degeneracy, and has been ever since creation. This would explain why the lifespan used to be longer, when the alleles were the most pure, truly divinely inspired as opposed to degenerates off of that. Interestingly enough, it would also explain why the biblical rules re: marriage have changed, and even the societal rules. In the beginning, it may have been okay to marry your sister genetically, not so anymore. Furthermore, the biblical Noachian flood would create a genetic �bottleneck� further decreasing diversity. Something to consider.

It is interesting that some animals live to such great years still.. like the tortus. Why them and not us?

It�s a good question. I think it�s got something to do with nature of the tissue, like it�s capable of regenerating multiple times. I am not a physiologist though, so best to consult someone else.

I think that people like to blaim their failings on their genes these days. I read somewhere that they have supposidly found a gay gene. Gives people an excuse to behave how they want in some instances.

If evolution doesn�t exist, it means that the human genetic code is in a constant state of degeneracy, and has been ever since creation. This would explain why the lifespan used to be longer, when the alleles were the most pure, truly divinely inspired as opposed to degenerates off of that.

Are you saying that human genetic code is still undergoing a constant state of degeneracy? If so, do you think you would see a substantial change in humans (and the genetic code) over the next 2000 years?

Interestingly enough, it would also explain why the biblical rules re: marriage have changed, and even the societal rules.

If you believe in the tower of Babel, the cultural diversity would have certainly started there. BTW the assortment of human languages is another thing that facinates me, especially how it relates to the Bible. Another peice in the puzzle in my opinion.

Not a huge believer in organized religions. Am still very �touchy-feely� about these philosophical issues. I have great interest in them, as science can�t answer all my questions. Since I don�t believe in spontaneous generation of cells, I believe in some sort of as yet undefined creative energy or force.

So you havnt reached a conclusion if this force is natural or supernatural?

I�ve posted this idea multiple times in the other threads that I know you read. Perhaps you only gloss over my posts, as they can be quite lengthy.

I tried to keep up with them truely! Some of them went way over my head. Sorry.

Originally posted by shmick25
I think that people like to blaim their failings on their genes these days. I read somewhere that they have supposidly found a gay gene. Gives people an excuse to behave how they want in some instances.

There is actually a thread re: this issue. I am not a believer in genes controlling behavior, nor as mentioned do I believe in the �obesity gene,� or other such nonsense.

If evolution doesn�t exist, it means that the human genetic code is in a constant state of degeneracy, and has been ever since creation. This would explain why the lifespan used to be longer, when the alleles were the most pure, truly divinely inspired as opposed to degenerates off of that.

Are you saying that human genetic code is still undergoing a constant state of degeneracy? If so, do you think you would see a substantial change in humans (and the genetic code) over the next 2000 years?

What I am saying is that if evolution isn�t true, the human genetic code, and the genetic codes of all organisms are accruing harmful mutations. Especially now, technology has made such that in the first world the pressures of natural selection are nearly non-existent� there�s no mechanism to weed out the bad genes. These harmful mutations could explain many things. I am not really in any position to judge what the next 20 centuries will bring. Since you are a Christian, I would imagine that you are not planning for the next 2000 years though.

Interestingly enough, it would also explain why the biblical rules re: marriage have changed, and even the societal rules.

If you believe in the tower of Babel, the cultural diversity would have certainly started there. BTW the assortment of human languages is another thing that facinates me, especially how it relates to the Bible. Another peice in the puzzle in my opinion.

I don�t know about the tower of Babel� I know from the Escher lithograph that work ceased because of differences in language. Not sure WHEN the tower of Babel occurred in Biblical history, but IMO the Noachian Flood, if true, would have created a huge genetic bottleneck. I�ve mentioned this to those in the know, and they state that there is some suggestion that this is when lifespans began to rapidly decrease.

Not a huge believer in organized religions. Am still very �touchy-feely� about these philosophical issues. I have great interest in them, as science can�t answer all my questions. Since I don�t believe in spontaneous generation of cells, I believe in some sort of as yet undefined creative energy or force.

So you havnt reached a conclusion if this force is natural or supernatural?

Hmmmm�. Well a natural thing would be spontaneous generation of cells from more or less nothing as is postulated by �pre-biotic� theories of evolution. I don�t believe that is even possible. I suppose the force would have to be supernatural, but I am not convinced of the presence of an omnipotent creator. There is so much up in the air for me. How old is the Earth really? The Universe? What is the appropriate or most correct interpretation of fossil record, or the observed galactic red-shift? What about the Grand Canyon� was it carved out in millions of years, or weeks? I am greatly troubled by my inability to answer these questions, and I often feel like I can�t make an informed decision until I have a better idea, which may never happen. I know what I don�t believe: I don�t believe the Mormons, I don�t believe the Muslims, I don�t believe the Jehovah�s Witnesses, and I definitely don�t believe the Catholics (Sorry, gram!!). This is not to say that certain aspects of these religions are not true, but those organizations/sects leave me feeling uncomfortable.

Its good to see so many people participating in our conversation!

Hmmmm�. Well a natural thing would be spontaneous generation of cells from more or less nothing as is postulated by �pre-biotic� theories of evolution. I don�t believe that is even possible. I suppose the force would have to be supernatural, but I am not convinced of the presence of an omnipotent creator. There is so much up in the air for me. How old is the Earth really? The Universe? What is the appropriate or most correct interpretation of fossil record, or the observed galactic red-shift? What about the Grand Canyon� was it carved out in millions of years, or weeks? I am greatly troubled by my inability to answer these questions, and I often feel like I can�t make an informed decision until I have a better idea, which may never happen. I know what I don�t believe: I don�t believe the Mormons, I don�t believe the Muslims, I don�t believe the Jehovah�s Witnesses, and I definitely don�t believe the Catholics (Sorry, gram!!). This is not to say that certain aspects of these religions are not true, but those organizations/sects leave me feeling uncomfortable.

So many unanswered questions hey? I find it interesting that you know so definitely not what to believe. Bad experiences? I agree with you somewhat on one of your earlier conversations regarding institutional religion. I don't think God is restrained to the one organisation even though some would love it, if that were the case.

Where institutions do have some merit is in the fact that it allows groups of people that believe in a common belief to gather together. Christ talks about the impotents of fellowshipping together. (even he did that when he came to earth in Jewish temples which would have been far from perfect - seeing they were the ones that put him to death).

If you think that you will find a perfect religion with perfect people in it on earth, it aint gonna happen. I have been bought up a Christian all my life and have been to lots of churches. Where man looks on the outside, God looks at the heart. In short, you can worship God anywhere! I don't pretend to know all the answers and I do not think I or anyone on earth will. But then again, ask yourself this. If you did know all the questions you were seeking to 100% certainty, do you think it would change the way you live your life now?

Since you are a Christian, I would imagine that you are not planning for the next 2000 years though.

Mate, we are only on this earth from a min 0 to max 100 years. Speck of dust in the scheme of things. I personally believe we will see some dramatic political, social and environment changes in the next 50 years or so. As a scientist you would be better equipped to judge the shape of our world environmentally. In regards to climate change, they are predicting massive changes in the next 30 years. I do not believe earth can be sustained for another 2000 years. Possibly not even another 300 years.

Originally posted by shmick25
Its good to see so many people participating in our conversation!

Well, what can you do. No conspiracy here, nothing to yell about either, no websites associated with it.

So many unanswered questions hey? I find it interesting that you know so definitely not what to believe. Bad experiences?

Interesting how? That's pretty much how I've approached everything, process of elimination... admittedly it is somewhat lacking though. Not sure what you mean about bad experiences, but hell, doesn't everyone have bad experiences?

I agree with you somewhat on one of your earlier conversations regarding institutional religion. I don't think God is restrained to the one organisation even though some would love it, if that were the case.

I figure that could not be the case, given the different variety of cultures in the world.

Where institutions do have some merit is in the fact that it allows groups of people that believe in a common belief to gather together.

I agree. I don't have any thing against people worshipping however they feel most comfortable. I have a problem when people tell me what my relationship with God should be like based on theirs.

If you think that you will find a perfect religion with perfect people in it on earth, it aint gonna happen.

Certainly not looking for that... not perfect myself. But I need to comfortable in my own beliefs before venturing out to interact and discuss with others.

If you did know all the questions you were seeking to 100% certainty, do you think it would change the way you live your life now?

Doubtful

I do not believe earth can be sustained for another 2000 years. Possibly not even another 300 years.

Technically speaking the Earth is no danger whatsoever. IMO the earth doesn't 'care' about the state of its environment. Certainly humans have things they should be concerned about, but the planet will be fine, and life will prevail, not necessarily humans, but something.

Originally posted by shmick25
There is a massive locus plague in Africa at the moment (somewhere) and a smaller one in Australia. (I even have some in my garden).

We had massive plagues here twenty years ago.. I remember dead locusts would coat the windscreen and clogg up the wipers. One of the coolest things I've ever seen.. but not that rare or ominous.
[Note.. staying in the car is a advisable ]

Is it possible that genetically modified wheat could have an effect on locus so that they deform and turn into scorpion / locus creatures that can hurt people? Any smart scientist out there that can comment?

No.. but the insects themselves could be altered. Not a bad idea.
BTW. I hired 'relelation' the other day.. not a bad film and it does get into the DNA side of things in a very interesting way.