This is ISIS. This is the truth: Exposing the bull# on ATS

originally posted by: mthgs602
Very Respectfully to the OP but as a college student who writes research papers, I know that Wikipedia is a very bad source and is not allowed as a point of DATA reference when writing.

We are only allowed to use Academic Journals with authentic research and not able to have been edited by any person who has access to the internet.

So, very respectfully, but from the viewpoint of this ATS'er, this, along with every other attempt at explaining away the ISIS threat currently, is unsubstantiated and cannot be taken seriously.

I work as an editor in academic publishing and can tell you that the 'authentic' research you speak of is as dubious as Wikipedia on occasion. Academia has become somewhat of a nonsense as these so called academics write and research with their funding foremost in their mind and not the research. They are perpetually in fear of what their funders/grant makers will think and, as such, often fall short of actually putting their theories where their mouths are and play with wooly words instead.

a reply to: Necrose

Well said, but with debt, taxes, living expenses, etc., I don't think "not playing" is a realistic option for most people. Unless you possess a large sum of money, you're really stuck in this game like everyone else. Though some people may land themselves an okay spot on the board through birth, perseverance, or sheer luck, we're all shak'n our cups and slam'n them on the same table. Sure, some resourceful individuals may improvise their own little game in a corner somewhere, but it's only a matter of time before the table spreads...

I don't believe the answer is to just remove ourselves from the equation, as I'm sure everyone will be factored in whether they like it or not. I do believe the only logical answer is to organize a legitimate and ethical resistance against the forces that wish to bend humanity to their voracious will's.

a reply to: daaskapital

Very good research and there is a lot of truth you are trying to share S&F....I would like to add that at sometime during the Syrian conflict the 2 terrorists groups al Queda ad ISIS merged......well at that time al Queda was well known, well established and head honcho....naturally it made sense that ISIS would fall under the leader of Al Queda.....but when the leader of ISIS, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, figured this out he said, more or less, I don't think so. There was a power struggle and al Baghdadi decided, screw it, we will just go out on our own and al Queda said good riddance! And that is how the split between the 2 groups took place......

For the people thinking this was a creation of the West or Mosad....Do you believe real evil exist? Or is the only way true evil exist is because it was funded by or trained by the WEST?? Everything wrong or evil, on the planet is not a creation of the West!! Believe it or not some real evil minds and souls do exist all unto themselves....

Every time you make excuses for these cowards by saying oh America, or the UK or Israel created them funded them etc. you are leading the charge into people believing that every horrible act that has ever happened on the planet is somehow a conspiracy that links back to the West or Israel!

We did not need to drop bombs on Iraq or anywhere in the Mid East in order for them to hate us! They have been hating us for thousands of years! These so called cowards have NO ideology No religion No morals No decency whatsoever!! They are killing and calling themselves Muslims who believe in Shariah law according to the Quran....However, this is all a lie and they go far beyond Shariah extremists.. Followers of Shariah are hideous enough but Shariah follows the laws of the Quran stating kill the Infidels i.e. anyone whom doesn't practice islam yet they are slaughtering other Muslims, other Islamists and the Quran forbids the killing of another Muslim by a Muslim! They kill for sport, for love of blood, for the joy of hurting others.....

Yes, the US and the West have a shady past name me one country that doesn't.....but if we were going to create a terror group wouldn't we create one that stood for something? They stand for the gum on the bottom of my shoe as far as i am concerned.....They represent only themselves and when they have used these other fools who have decided to join them decided to join them, they will murder them as well!!! because they have no regard for human life whatsoever.......

So stop with the nonsense that we are behind every atrocity on the earth! If we do not learn this now then we will pay later with our own heads....If ISIS cannot be stopped in the Mid East, they will show up here and when they do we will all need to pull together to defeat them...how is that gonna happen if we are busy bickering about where they came from?

Pax

a reply to: yorkshirelad

And by what reliable source do you receive your information from good sir? If I may ask...

a reply to: Gh0stwalker

This is slightly off-topic, but I want to elaborate on the game we are playing here. It may be worth reading

A double-bind game is a game with self-contradictory rules, a game doomed to perpetual self-frustration –– like trying to invent a perpetual-motion machine in terms of Newtonian mechanics, or trying to trisect any given angle with a straightedge and compass. The social double-bind game can be phrased in several ways:

The First rule of this game is that it is not a game.
Everyone must play.
You must love us.
You must go on living.
Be yourself, but play a consistent and acceptable role.
Control yourself and be natural.
Try to be sincere.

Essentially, this game is a demand for spontaneous behaviour of certain kinds. Living, loving, being natural or sincere -- all these are spontaneous forms of behaviour: they happen "of themselves" like digesting food or growing hair. As soon as they are forced they acquire that unnatural, contrived, and phony atmosphere which everyone deplores -- weak and scentless like forced flowers and tasteless like forced fruit. Life and love generate effort, but effort will not generate them. Faith --in life, in other people, an in oneself - is the attitude of allowing the spontaneous to be spontaneous, in its own way and in its own time. This is of course, risky because life and other people do not always respond to faith as we might wish. Faith is always a gamble because life itself is a gambling game with what must appear, in hiding aspect of the game, to try to make winning a dead certainty, is to achieve a certainty which is indeed dead.
The alternative to community based on mutual trust is a TOTALITARIAN POLICE-STATE, a community in which spontaneity is virtually forbidden.

This is worth watching for you Gh0stwalker.



So then, I ask... Is it really necessary to keep on going? To conquer everything, to win over everything, to keep on living?

originally posted by: Daavid
Wikipedia says so so it must be true???????

Come on guys, 50 stars for parroting the MSM.

None of us know the truth but we can be sure what the MSM tells us is usually not very close to it.

And wikipedia?...ffs ats.


Im realising that here on ATS....STARS means SHILLS. We all know now that ATS if full of them and propaganda threads like this is what they love.

No attack on you OP. I enjoy a lot of your threads, just totally disagree with using wikipedia as your main link to this info. It makes me very skeptical if this is what is posted on that site.

I would like to go slightly off topic just to state that this is first time I suspect organized shills are operating here on ATS...

like it's "official US forum", not "he conspiracy theory forum"...

sad state of affairs...

a reply to: demus

I agree with Daavid's response.

The thread title and the advertisement (new logo) on ATS homepage seemed so ironic.

a reply to: demus

I would like to go slightly off topic just to state that this is first time I suspect organized shills are operating here on ATS...

The first time? Seriously? Why don't you address the actual topic of discussion? Why do you feel that the United States is funding a terrorist group that has been opposing its own puppet regimes?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

I would like to go slightly off topic just to state that this is first time I suspect organized shills are operating here on ATS...

The first time? Seriously? Why don't you address the actual topic of discussion? Why do you feel that the United States is funding a terrorist group that has been opposing its own puppet regimes?

demus has contributed to the thread discussion if you had cared to read the last 6 pages.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

I would like to go slightly off topic just to state that this is first time I suspect organized shills are operating here on ATS...

The first time? Seriously? Why don't you address the actual topic of discussion? Why do you feel that the United States is funding a terrorist group that has been opposing its own puppet regimes?

Their plan is to destabilize the Middle-East, and if you think about it... that plan is really clever, and what else? It's working.
WE ARE DOOMED mate.
Stability is no longer profitable, war is.

a reply to: Thurisaz

demus has contributed to the thread discussion if you had cared to read the last 6 pages.

He has provided his usual out of context quotations in an attempt to generate general anti-American sentiment. He has not actually refuted any of the facts and analysis provided by the OP, only mocked them. Other than a vague assertion that "America wants instability in the Middle East," can anyone provide a reasonable strategic explanation why the US would want to arm and support ISIL?

Edit to add: My initial comment was intended to express my disbelief that demus did not think there were "shills" on ATS until now.

originally posted by: Necrose

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

I would like to go slightly off topic just to state that this is first time I suspect organized shills are operating here on ATS...

The first time? Seriously? Why don't you address the actual topic of discussion? Why do you feel that the United States is funding a terrorist group that has been opposing its own puppet regimes?

Their plan is to destabilize the Middle-East, and if you think about it... that plan is really clever, and what else? It's working.
WE ARE DOOMED mate.
Stability is no longer profitable, war is.

the biggest proof of US involvement in whole ISIS mess are those shipment of arms and equipment that were sent into Syria by US and it's allies.

we're talking about indirect support for the organization as some of the weapons and equipment delivered to Syria must have fallen into ISIS's hands; it explains ISIS using American equipment to establish control over a large territory.

a reply to: daaskapital

Not completely true guy. The US didn't know who they were funding. They were funding "rebels" many of which turned out to be Al Nusra and many went on and took the weapons to ISIS. You can watch ISIS videos where they are using American weapons including our 50 cals.

Of course they did get many more American weapons and APVs and worse when they stole them from the Iraqi army, but we gave them to them well before we really knew who ISIS was/would become.

You can't offload a ton of weapons to rebels and expect them all to be moderates. Hell look how deeply imbedded the Afghan soldier who killed the general was. He certainly used an American weapon.


So yes, we did, maybe not on purpose, but in ignorance supply weapons to ISIS.

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: Necrose

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: demus

I would like to go slightly off topic just to state that this is first time I suspect organized shills are operating here on ATS...

The first time? Seriously? Why don't you address the actual topic of discussion? Why do you feel that the United States is funding a terrorist group that has been opposing its own puppet regimes?

Their plan is to destabilize the Middle-East, and if you think about it... that plan is really clever, and what else? It's working.
WE ARE DOOMED mate.
Stability is no longer profitable, war is.

the biggest proof of US involvement in whole ISIS mess are those shipment of arms and equipment that were sent into Syria by US and it's allies.

we're talking about indirect support for the organization as some of the weapons and equipment delivered to Syria must have fallen into ISIS's hands; it explains ISIS using American equipment to establish control over a large territory.

Yes, this is what I am saying too.
US: oh we are only giving the weapons to moderates.

Who the hell are the moderates? The guys gassing people to frame Assad?

originally posted by: Daavid
Wikipedia says so so it must be true???????

Come on guys, 50 stars for parroting the MSM.

None of us know the truth but we can be sure what the MSM tells us is usually not very close to it.

And wikipedia?...ffs ats.


I'm realizing that here on ATS....STARS means SHILLS. We all know now that ATS if full of them and propaganda threads like this is what they love.

I was being very nice on my post on page 3, I have yet to get any kind of response from the OP. Now after a couple days I see all these "shill" stars, and they mean noting to me, they never had.
But WOW, we have that many people on here who protect the status quo?

Honestly, again being nice. I think the OP got the stars for trying to make an "informed" post with links and sources, instead of just saying it with words. I to backed up my claims with links and sources.
Yet have any decent rebuttal of my claims.
All I seem to get is non sense back, or OH, those evil bankers, or I am simply paranoid. lol

Those "evil bankers" Are up to NO good. Some think, "oh they are just old men, with no real power."
WTF.. They only have all the worlds wealth and money. So yeah they do not have any power.
Just the power you all seem to allow them over you.. (all that wealth they have is worthless too, its only worth WHAT we as a people decide its worth!) We are fighting over illusions people. Created, manifested illusions.

I have to wonder sometimes, why the status quo is so defended. Its like some of you enjoy being at the mercy of these people. I hope non of you have any kids. You are leaving them with a world that will not be very pleasant for them, or their kids.. Hence the cycle repeats. And these Bankers win again.
More blood will have to be shed, and then what? We going to forget about these people, and let it happen over and over again.. History repeats.

Please check back to page 3.. and read and research my post.. Listen to what I have to say. Please do not glaze over the post.
Link here

Thank you for making a very informed post with links, sources, and facts that support your OP. I can agree with the points you make. However we do not see eye to eye here. You agree and can't deny that elements of the USA have funded them indirectly. Part of how they are able to come away with clean hands. They funnel money to other allies. Then those "allies" fund those very groups. Leaving US with squeaky clean hands. Sneaky bastards!

2 can play the quote wiki game. 2 can play the here are my links and sources game. ALL of them skewed to serve one sides agenda.

They got their hands on our hardware. And people say, opps! That was a total accident. We did not mean for these guys to get their hands on USA military gear. Besides its the stuff we left behind, as it was breaking down, and we upgraded our gear, so what they have is antiquated hardware.

Even my own, which I admit to in my post. But I get either support of those who really understand this.
Or back and forth condescending remarks to my post. NOT one person stepped up to have reasonable debate with me on the other side to the status quo.
Keep on defending that status quo guys..

originally posted by: daaskapital
I see so much bull# on ATS, regarding ISIS and its origins. This thread exists for the sole purpose of providing members the truth regarding ISIS and its origins. So please, i urge everyone to read on.

People claim that ISIS exists because the US made it so. People claim that ISIS was created in Syria, during its civil war. People claim that the USA and UK directly and knowingly funded extreme Islamic groups in Syria. People claim that there are no moderate rebels in Syria, and that the US has been funding ISIS all along. Well guess what? All of this is bull# of the highest order. There is no evidence, nothing, to suggest that the USA directly established ISIS.

Here's the truth:

ISIS was established by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi in early 2004, as a result of the coalition invasion of Iraq. It initially operated under the name of Jamāʻat al-Tawḥīd wa-al-Jihād, before swearing its allegiance to Al Qaeda in October of the same year, and calling itself Tanẓīm Qāʻidat al-Jihād fī Bilād al-Rāfidayn. You knew this organisation as 'Al Qaeda in Iraq'; they then knew themselves as 'The Organization of Jihad's Base in the Country of the Two Rivers'.

In 2006, 'The Organization of Jihad's Base in the Country of the Two Rivers' merged with smaller Iraqi jihadist groups, and proceed to name the coalition as the Mujahideen Shura Council'. It had little success, and after the death of founder al-Zarqawi, disbanded in October of the same year. The group to replace the Mujahideen Shura Council just so happened to be a group named the Islamic State of Iraq, or ISI. Abu Abdullah al-Rashid al-Baghdadi and Abu Ayyub al-Masri became the new leaders of ISI, with other jihadist groups in Iraq opposing the establishment of the organisation itself.

Abu Abdullah al-Rashid al-Baghdadi and Abu Ayyub al-Masri ruled ISIS for a number of years, until they were both assassinated in a joint US/Iraqi operation on 18 April 2010. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi then became the new leader of ISI, and until 2011, remained somewhat silent.

During the Syrian civil war, ISI expanded its operations into the country, and established Jabhat al-Nusra in 2012. Jabhat al-Nusra was intended to be ISI's official branch in Syria, with Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi stating that ISI and Jabhat al-Nusra would merge to become the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS. The proclaimed merge was refused by the leader of Jabhat al-Nusra, Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani. Ayman al-Zawahiri, the leader of Al Qaeda, came to Abu Muhammad al-Jawlani's defence, and ruled against the proposed merge. Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi refused the ruling, and insisted that ISIS would merge with jabhat al-Nusra. Al Qaeda ordered ISIS to disband, and after an intense power struggle, broke all relations with the outfit.

ISIS then expanded into Syria, where it found success in taking strategically important cities such as Raqqa, before expanding its actions into Iraq. After finding some success in Iraq, ISIS changed its name to the 'Islamic State', and declared a caliphate on June 29 2014.

---

The above is a general run down on ISIS and its history. As can be seen, ISIS was not formed in Syria, by the USA. Indeed, the USA considers ISIS a terrorist organisation, and actually listed it as such in 2004, the year of its birth. For an organisation opposed to the allied invasion of Iraq, it would seem illogical for the USA to support such a group. This is doubly so now, considering the fact that ISIS is directly threatening the stability of Iraq. This leads on to the next point, the debate as to whether or not the USA has supported ISIS in Syria.

Many argue that ISIS has been directly supported by the USA in Syria. This claim is untruthful, as the USA has intended to only fund moderate rebels, of whom are a separate entity to their Islamist counterparts. Indeed, the USA has trained and financially supported members of the FSA, and yes, it is true that many have defected to ISIS. But it is simply wrong to suggest that ISIS itself, has received any such treatment from the West. It is also incorrect to conclude that ISIS has somehow been supported by the US, simply because it now controls the Eastern region of Syria - an area recently controlled by both, the Syrian government and moderate opposition. The USA has only supported appropriately vetted rebels, and while some have defected to ISIS, it should be noted that jihadists are not considered appropriate contenders for support.

So why then, are we having to deal with this misinformation? Why am i having to sit hear at the dead of night, authoring this piece to inform others of the truth surrounding the Islamist group that is ISIS? I feel it is due to an ignorance around these groups, and towards the USA in general. I know this thread has not touched on all of the bases, as it would take multiple books to even achieve such a feat. That said, i do hope that this thread has spurred at least one person to go further and conduct their own research into the overall situation.

In conclusion, here are some sources for members here to get started on their research:

ISIS:

en.wikipedia.org...
www.bbc.com...

ISIS leaders:

en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Syrian civil war:

en.wikipedia.org...

Terrorist organisation list:

www.state.gov...

Here's a thread i authored some time ago, pointing out some of the forces fighting in Syria. It may help in gaining a greater understanding of the variety of organisations in the state, but please be aware that the thread itself is quite dated and not all encompassing. There are obviously further organisations inside the state:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Anyway, i thank everyone for reading.

- Daas.

THanks for the facts man,never knew this before,Journalism does not even tell us this correctly.They did get funded with more money through Saudi Arbia banks somehow.

Daas my friend, your threads never fail to impress me...

Thank you for sharing what only a few of us have been fighting to say over ISIS threads!

Especially specifying that it's the FSA who were funded...
I felt like I was talking to a brick wall recently when discussing this!


Peace pal!

Your sources are hardly credible. Wiki I would only trust on non-controversial issues. The state department, never..

It doesn't really matter if Al Qaeda or ISIS or any others were created by the West or not.What matters is that the west used them and supported them whenever there was a need for barbarism and a mission to accomplish...I know it is hard for some of you to even consider your government's involvement in any kind of criminal or immoral activities, but hey truth hurts sometimes and we all have to deal with it somehow.