Why Does a Florida County Need Eight $18 Million Helicopters?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Already did.

I gave a direct link to the database showing the 8 military aircraft, each valued at 18 million dollars, and since they bought 8 in 2011, it is a grand total of 144 million...

I gave even a picture of the section of the database showing that they were bought, or given, to the Brevard county in FL. Follow the information provided and stop trying to derail the thread please.




I gave specifics on what program this is and how they were transferring by either selling, or even giving away military equipment. Again, read the information being provided instead of posting something which has nothing to do with the thread. Thanks.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

How about you take 5 minutes to read the differences in the article you posted, and the info I posted. They are totally unrelated.

Unrelated you say, how many counties are in Fla named Brevard?

One, so they are only unrelated because you say so, but you refuse to acknowledge the fact you are wrong an=d hey that's cool just understand you should be denying ignorance not pushing it.

LEA's are Law Enforcement Agencies, they don't take care of the mosquito population. There is a big difference in the price tag of two helos that cost 6.8 million both, and those that cost 18 million each, don't you think?

They aren't for law enforcement as the articles I linked you to says what they are for, but since this ATS enjoy your so called conspiracy.

And as I asked earlier do you have anything from Brevard County that shows they purchased these helicopters, and your little data base isn't from the county themselves.

You see they can't make purchases such as that without letting the public know and where is that info from the county, do you have that because if so you haven't posted it yet?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I gave even a picture of the section of the database showing that they were bought, or given, to the Brevard county in FL. Follow the information provided and stop trying to derail the thread please.

Here you should have also read the update...

***Author’s Update 6:00 PM: After publishing this article I found some time to do some more comparison shopping and there is no way that I can verify that these are in fact Apache Helicopters. New Apaches cost upwards of $50 Million. In 2011 that number would have been somewhat less and they could have been used equipment so it is still very possible. I found some old numbers earlier in the neighborhood of 15 million but new 2013/2014 prices are nowhere near that low. Let’s just take this information on the premise of this county spending 144 million dollars on eight helicopters. Whether they are Apaches or something somewhat less lethal, it is still quite the expenditure for a single county in the span of less than two months. There are some military grade helicopters that can be had new for $18 million even in 2014. So even if they are something different, they are likely something very unorthodox for police to be flying on the taxpayer’s dime. Chances are VERY GOOD that these are military grade helicopters. ***End of Update***

www.dcclothesline.com...

But what do the facts matter when it's a conspiracy...right?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yes... they are unrelated... As the helos your article mention are not military, hence they could not have been provided by the Defense Logistics Agency...

The database I gave is from the Defense Logistics Agency, and it shows military equipment that is given, or sold to LEA's.

And, btw, as I mentioned on BAN, the helos are probably AH-64D Apache Longbows, which are valued by our own military in a range around 15 million-18 million each...

Boeing Awarded Contract for 18 U.S. Army AH-64D Apache Longbow Helicopters

ST. LOUIS, April 09, 2007 -- Boeing [NYSE: BA] and the U.S. Army have signed a $276.4 million contact for 18 new AH-64D Apache Longbow multi-role combat helicopters.

The contract raises to 45 the number of new-build Apache Longbows on order with the U.S. Army.

The U.S. Army also recently contracted for the remanufacture of 96 AH-64A Apaches into AH-64Ds.

Boeing will begin delivery of these new-build helicopters in mid-2009 at its manufacturing facility in Mesa, Ariz., where Apaches have been built since the program's inception.

"The combat-proven Apache Longbow continues to support our warfighters and
the battlefield commander's requirements across the full spectrum of operations," said David Almond, Boeing Block II Apache program manager. "We remain committed to producing the most superior attack helicopter in the world -- a helicopter that our soldiers can count on each and every time."

The U.S. Army uses the Apache Longbow to fulfill attack helicopter and reconnaissance requirements. Featuring fully integrated avionics and weapons, plus state-of-the-art digital communications capabilities, the Apache Longbow can rapidly detect, classify, prioritize and engage stationary and moving opposition targets at standoff ranges in nearly all weather environments.

The new U.S. Army Apache Longbow aircraft, to be built in the Block II configuration, are in addition to the 501 remanufactured AH-64D Apache Longbows built between 1997 and 2006 under two five-year, multi-year contracts.
...

www.ar15.com...

276,400,000/18 =15,355,555.5556 each.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: ElectricUniverse


But what do the facts matter when it's a conspiracy...right?

DCclotheslines seems to have gotten the database from the Detroit Free Press online newspaper I gave a link to and which was among the first news agency to provide the database.

www.freep.com...

I did find the article from dcclotheslines which was published on August 22, 2014, but their article was obviously taken from the Detroit Free Press article which was posted on Aug. 17, 2014...

You see, what I did is called research. What you have been doing is trying to derail the thread by posting completely unrelated information that has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread. Yet you, for some reason, want to ignore the facts.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And, btw, as I mentioned on BAN, the helos are probably AH-64D Apache Longbow, which are valued by our own military in a range around 15 million-18 million...

Your right and everybody including the county of Brevard are wrong...how silly of me to go to the county for the info when someone else knows more than they do about what they purchased.

I will leave you to your delusions of what they purchased because of course they are ignorant about it. Hey enjoy your unfounded conspiracy.

And this is even funnier because you said it...

I am not entirely sure about the veracity of the source and have been trying to find corroborating evidence to support this, if it is true.

I showed you it isn't, but now all of the sudden it is the truth...imagine that.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

DCclotheslines seems to have gotten the database from the Detroit Free Press online newspaper I gave a link to and which was among the first news agency to provide the database.

So then you have nothing that even comes from Brevard county themselves, and your sources source is a Detroit Free Press article.

And yet when Brevard county says what the purchases were for they aren't right...how does that work again?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h

I showed you it isn't, but now all of the sudden it is the truth...imagine that.

I was talking about the dcclotheslines article... Their article was taken from an actual online news paper which was among the first to post the database. If not the first. The only one who is delusional enough to think you have been able to refute the information is yourself.

All you have shown is that you are completely ignorant even on simple mathematics. How the hell are 2 NON-MILITARY helicopters all of the sudden the EIGHT MILITARY helicopters that the database mention?... Not to mention the price tag difference between the helos mentioned in your article at 7 million both, and the ones the database mentions which are valued at 18 million each...

Yeah I am sure we can see who is "delusional here" bud...

But please, go ahead and keep putting your shoe in your mouth.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

All you have shown is that you are completely ignorant even on simple mathematics. How the hell are 2 NON-MILITARY helicopters all of the sudden the EIGHT MILITARY helicopters that the database mention?... Not to mention the price tag difference between the helos mentioned in your article at 7 million both, and the ones the database mentions which are valued at 18 million each...

Here let's make this easy for you...

Show something that is officially from Brevard county that proves this purchase was made then you might have something. Until you can do that you have nothing but heresay and nothing proving the purchase...it's that easy as that would be major headlines in the news papers in that part of the country.

Care to do that, or are you just going to keep going back to the Detroit Free Press as your proof?

All you have shown is that you are completely ignorant even on simple mathematics. How the hell are 2 NON-MILITARY helicopters all of the sudden the EIGHT MILITARY helicopters that the database mention?... Not to mention the price tag difference between the helos mentioned in your article at 7 million both, and the ones the database mentions which are valued at 18 million each...

Again you have nothing showing that Brevard county purchased those helicopters except something from a different paper in a different state...how about something that is local discussing this...do you have anything that does this because as of yet you haven't shown anything.

And the most amazing thing about your story is it seems to be coming from the same source...

Now could you explain why when I go to the Defense Logistics Agency and type into the search box about Apaches being purchased nothing comes up, but when I go to the link from the DC clothesline article it takes you here...

www.shtfplan.com...

Shouldn't that link take you directly to the DLA website and not something different?

Yeah I am sure we can see who is "delusional here" bud...

But please, go ahead and keep putting your shoe in your mouth.

Yep, delusional people learn to check the sources of sources something you probably should have done.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

First of all, you should spend time reading the information given. The military equipment is SURPLUS, the military equipment is not always sold at cost as the agency itself specifies. A lot of it is given free of charge. However the LEA's do have to pay for the transportation and shipping cost... We do not know whether Brevard bought the helos, I doubt they actually paid 144 million although there could have been ways to appropriate that money, or whether they were just transferred and Brevard only had to pay for shipping and transportation costs.

I gave that information on the second post on this thread...

Apparently, at least some of the equipment is provided either for free or at a discount, although the LEA's have to pay for shipping and transportation cost.

...
How does the program work?
Answer: Once law enforcement agencies have been approved to participate in the 1033 Program by the State Coordinator and the Law Enforcement Support Office (LESO), the law enforcement agencies appoint officials to visit their local DLA Disposition Services Site. They will screen property and place requests for specific items by submitting requisitions on the Enterprise Business Portal RTDWeb page. The item must have a justification and be approved by both the State Coordinator and the LESO Staff. Law enforcement agencies that receive approval for property must cover all transportation and/or shipping costs.
...
What are some ways in which law enforcement agencies use the equipment they acquire?
Answer: Law enforcement agencies use the equipment in a variety of ways. For instance, four-wheel drive vehicles are used to interrupt drug harvesting, haul away marijuana, patrol streets and conduct surveillance. The 1033 Program also helps with the agencies’ general equipment needs, such as file cabinets, copiers, and fax machines that they need but perhaps are unable to afford.
...

www.dispositionservices.dla.mil...


The value of the helos is at 18 million each. it doesn't mean that's what the Brevard county paid...

Second of all, the information comes directly from the DATABASE provided by the DEFENSE LOGISTICS AGENCY. A government agency that has been providing either for free, or at a smaller cost military equipment to LEA's among other agencies since the 1033 program was implemented...

Third of all, and I don't know how many times I have to try to explain this to you because it's obvious there is something wrong with you either trying to understand this, or you are in fact using any illogical claim just to try to derail this thread and it's getting annoying already.

The article you mention is talking about TWO NON-MILITARY helos valued at around 7 million both...
The helos the database refers to are EIGHT MILITARY helos valued at 18 million EACH... THEY CAN'T BE THE SAME...

The Brevard county is not the one making a mistake here, it is you not understanding that these are completely unrelated articles...

Now, if you still don't understand what I am talking about then I ask you to stop altogether from posting any more illogical claims that the two articles are the same thing when they are not... All you keep doing is derailing the thread...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Now, if you still don't understand what I am talking about then I ask you to stop altogether from posting any more illogical claims that the two articles are the same thing when they are not... All you keep doing is derailing the thread...

So your just going to step around the questions I asked about why the so called database doesn't actually take you to the DLA website, but rather it takes you to a different site not affiliated with the DLA themselves?

And why haven't you addressed the issue that when put into the search box on the DLA site nothing comes up for Brevard county purchasing these helicopters?

Maybe you should try addressing those issues before ranting on about the cost of helicopters that haven't even been shown to have been purchased at least not by the county or the place this so called data base is from...care to address that?

And just so you know this also throws up a red flag...

h/t Mort Amsel of BIN

Before It's News is a totally credible source.

Now, if you still don't understand what I am talking about then I ask you to stop altogether from posting any more illogical claims that the two articles are the same thing when they are not... All you keep doing is derailing the thread...

Yes one article, which updates itself saying there is no proof they were apaches which seems to be sourced from a facebook page that sources itself to reddit.

And a so called data base that doesn't even take you to the site of where this data base is supposedly from and that doesn't make you question the validity of the source...how odd.

Now care to show me from the DLA site where that data base comes up and shows that, because until you can do that your sources are crap plain and simple.

And since this thread is about Brevard county and them purchasing helicopters I would say I am pretty much on topic and have yet to see where the derailing you say I am doing is happening care to show me where that is?

And here let me introduce you to the only helicopters that the Brevard County Sheriffs office has.



www.brevardsheriff.com...

The rest of the law enforcement in that county are local municipalities that don't have the money to buy helicopters and maintain them.

And please notice they have a contact number you can use to verify that they don't have Apaches.

And here is a list of all law enforcement agencies in Brevard County.

www.usacops.com...

Feel free to show which of these towns has the money or the space to park 8 Apache helicopters.

Really way out of price helicopters. Here in Tulsa County we just bought new helicopter for only 1.2 million. It is a all weather version with F.L.I.R and all the bell and whistles. The older bird was 5 years old and kind of needed a lot of upkeep. So I have no idea why the price variance is so great.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

It doesn't take you directly to the website because it would be illegal to do so. Now you are trying to get me in jail by asking me to post direct access to the site, and I do have to wonder what game you are trying to play here. If you want to find the website go ahead and post the link yourself. I used a verifiable online NEWSPAPER that has a link which is legal to post.

Now, if you were able to keep up with me you would have noticed that I mentioned where these helos are being sent to, and who will be taking care of them...

Governor Scott Announces North American Surveillence Systems Expansion in Brevard County

On January 22, 2014, in News Releases, by Governor's Press Office

Aircraft modification company to create 20 jobs with expansion project

Today, during a meeting of the Florida Cabinet, Governor Rick Scott announced that North American Surveillance Systems Inc. (NASS) has chosen Titusville’s Space Coast Regional Airport to expand and consolidate its fixed and rotary-wing aircraft modification business. The company currently has operations offices in DeLand and will create 20 jobs over the next three years in manufacturing and engineering with the expansion. The project will create a capital investment of $1.3 million in land acquisition and $380,000 in construction and equipment.

Governor Scott said, “North American Surveillance Systems’ is a veteran owned business that’s growing jobs and opportunities for Florida families. We have been working hard to create jobs, and since I took office more than 446,300 private-sector jobs have been created. Additionally, Florida’s unemployment rate is down to 6.4 percent – the lowest it’s been in more than five years. We will continue to work hard to create an opportunity economy in Florida that supports jobs for generations to come.”
...

www.flgov.com...

I also posted a legal link to one of the dla websites which would not get me in trouble for posting in here and which shows they have been using private businesses for logistic support to "warfighters".

...
"Small businesses are vitally important to DLA and our mission to provide world-class logistics support to warfighters. DLA remains committed to maximizing small business participation opportunities to help ensure a robust Industrial Base that meets the needs of all who serve."- VADM Harnitchek, Director
...

www.dla.mil...

NORTH AMERICAN SURVEILLANCE SYSTEMS

A Veteran Owned Company

North American Surveillance Systems Inc., NASS, a global leader in airborne systems integration, offers unparalleled quality in the modification of rotary and fixed-wing aircraft.

With the successful completion of integration contracts in more than 22 countries plus specialized work with the United Nations, NASS continues to provide sophisticated solutions for security and surveillance systems, law enforcement organizations, first responders, and military aircraft worldwide.
...

www.nassusa.net...

(NASS) in turn has chosen Titusville’s Space Coast Regional Airport to expand and consolidate its fixed and rotary-wing aircraft modification business in which the 8 AH-64 will be kept until needed by LEA's in south Florida.

...
“We are pleased that NASS has selected Titusville and North Brevard as the location for its business operations,” said North Brevard Economic Development Zone (NBEDZ) Chairman George Mikitarian. “NASS is representative of the type of high-technology firm targeted through recruitment efforts of the NBEDZ, the EDC, and our many economic development partners in both the county and the City of Titusville as we work together to advance our local economy.”
...

www.flgov.com...


Oh and btw, I am not a hacker, just smarter than your average joe, and a very good researcher.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Helicopters are needede to search vast swamplands and coastal areas when doing search and rescues. those chopers are not there for law enforcement only.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Helicopters are needede to search vast swamplands and coastal areas when doing search and rescues. those chopers are not there for law enforcement only.

Sure they can, but did you miss the videos I posted showing military helos performing exercises by shooting blanks in the middle of a Florida highway?





Not to mention the facts posted at the NASS website on what their mission is, or what the excerpt and link I gave from the DLA website on how they use small businesses and why.

NORTH AMERICAN SURVEILLANCE SYSTEMS

A Veteran Owned Company

North American Surveillance Systems Inc., NASS, a global leader in airborne systems integration, offers unparalleled quality in the modification of rotary and fixed-wing aircraft.

With the successful completion of integration contracts in more than 22 countries plus specialized work with the United Nations, NASS continues to provide sophisticated solutions for security and surveillance systems, law enforcement organizations, first responders, and military aircraft worldwide.
...

www.nassusa.net...

...
"Small businesses are vitally important to DLA and our mission to provide world-class logistics support to warfighters. DLA remains committed to maximizing small business participation opportunities to help ensure a robust Industrial Base that meets the needs of all who serve."- VADM Harnitchek, Director
...

www.dla.mil...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Oh and btw, just a quick word of caution. If you do find the direct link, and just in case you are not a government employee, make sure to read the disclaimer and warning at the bottom of the DLA database. Which to me is a bit weird that it can be found through google, more so when they don't want unauthorized access to it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Why do major defense companies only sell equipment in bulk? Who the hell needs 12 drones at one time???

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Thanks for the thread. I am near Clearwater, so I will take a look into this deeper, given the links you provided and some of my own research when I have more time later.
Just bookmarking for now.
Thanks for the informed OP.
S&F

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Nice. I suppose the only 'Star' (BCSD's helo call sign) I am familiar with is the one based out of MI airport. Come to think about it, I have seen the all green one before. Brevard Country has a very long coast and the west border is essentially swamp land, lakes, and the St Johns River begins in these lakes and swamps. My point is, the helo's are vital for search and rescue missions.

They have 7 with an additional 3 unflyable ones for parts.
Guess what else is in Brevard County, Florida? NASA's Kennedy Space Center. The same organization which just so happens has been doing crash testing on helicopter fuselages for awhile now. That's where the helicopters went. In addition a lot of NASA procurement is located at Kennedy Space Center so don't be surprised if the very same helicopters mentioned here are the ones being used at Kennedy Space Center, Dryden/Armstrong, Langley, White Sands, and Glenn Research Centers.

Don't have time to fact check this but it seems reasonable.

Link - Language Warning