The Norse and Salishan Native Americans both prophesied about a coming wild canine.

The attached is a paper that maps the spread of the 'Cosmic Hunt' mythology with Siberia as the nucleus.

www.folklore.ee...

Before the bear gained dominance, some regions saw Ursa Major as a dog, it could be that that applies to both the Norse and Salishan, though I don't know one way or another. That there were routes of verbal transmission via trade conduits seems highly likely, the two peoples need never have actually met, stories in themselves, as they are today, were a valued commodity and traded alongside more tangible produce. The above paper definately supports the idea of a that level of trade relationship between northern Europeans and the Americas.

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: lostinspace

originally posted by: Corruptedstructure
a reply to: lostinspace

I thought the wolf was named Fenris Ulf. That's why C.S. Lewis changed it from Maugrim in 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

It can be either one. The most common one seems to be Fenrir per the Wikipedia links. It looks like Fenrisulfr is a better association with wolf.

In Norse mythology, Fenrir (Old Norse: "fen-dweller"),[1] Fenrisúlfr (Old Norse: "Fenris wolf"),[2] Hróðvitnir (Old Norse: "fame-wolf"),[3] or Vánagandr (Old Norse: "the monster of the river Ván")[4] is a monstrous wolf.

en.wikipedia.org...

It's interesting that the word for wolf is sulfr. It looks like the English word sulfur. The alternative name to sulfur is brimstone. The place where we find that word is in the biblical account were fire and brimstone come down from heaven and swallow up Sodom and Gomorrah. Sounds very apocalyptic to me if these wild canines turn out to be asteroids or comets.

I think we need to avoid decoding another culture's myths using a different culture's myths and personal beliefs. It may not be possible or desirable to decode myths at all.

I agree, since we know that Doggerland existed, we don't know their mythology either. There may be remnants of Doggerland religion in Scandinavia.

If Scandinavians evolved, then the mythology must have as well. I think the history of Scandinavian folklore is buried under the water of the North Sea, perhaps they knew this and perhaps believed that in Ragnarok, then Doggerland would reappear?

a reply to: ElohimJD

Okay. You have just proven your complete ignorance of history.

The Assyrians were not Germanic in the slightest. They were Semitic and related to the Babylonian culture, they inherited knowledge and culture from the previous Babylonians, Akkadians, Sumerians. They were named after their principle city of Assur, which was named after the god that they believed resided there.

Their religion and culture is completely different from the Germans, who migrated to europe from PERSIA, who practiced indo-european religious beliefs (fire worship, for example), and were cowherds.

I take it you think Tomorrow's World is a historical source.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about Norse mythology, but one thing to remember, is that, like mentioned earlier , the indo europeans were late comers to northern Europe, so it's likely that any connection to the new world mythology would have to come from the earlier peoples in the region.

  That being said there is gentic, linguistic, and cultural evidence that native Americans , from the dene language family , back migrated into northern eurasia in the early Holocene. 

 There is a link between dene and the yenisei languages of Siberia. Linguist have also connected ancient yenisei to uralic, which is considered to the forerunner to indo European.

 Also there is an ancient burial in nw Russia that has a mix of europeans and "native Americans/asiatics" buried there. Mt DNA haplogroup c has been identified there, among the standard European haplogroups.Haplogroup c is a native American haplogroup. I belive it is the oldest Na haplogroup.

This man was buried 7k years ago in nw Russia, karelia to be exact,



He was buried in the same cemetary as this man








 anthropogenesis.kinshipstsudies.org...



Add that to the wide spread dispersal of the earth diver myth, across Eurasia and all through the new world shows an ancient post LGM contact between the new and old worlds.

 

rth-Diver is one of the most widely-distributed and well-studied cosmological myths. Found in mostly Uralic-speaking Eastern Europe, in Siberia, in Munda-speaking Northeast India and North America, its action is set in post-diluvial times when a demiurge sends various creatures to bring a piece of mud from the bottom of the ocean. The first creature fails, but the second one succeeds. Importantly, it’s the least likely creature that succeeds, while the more obvious favorite fails. A loon is a much better diver than a duck but it’s the duck that succeeds. In the end, the demiurge blows the earth out of the tiny piece of mud and restores life on it. Depending on the region, the diving creatures are different – in Eurasia it’s waterfowl birds – loon and duck, in North America it’s amphibians such as turtle or frog, animals such as otter or beaver or waterbirds, in Northeast India and the American Southwest – it’s arthropods

anthropogenesis.kinshipstudies.org...



As I see the evidence this ancient myth has it's origins in the san Joaquin valley of California and spread from there. I believe thus because one yokut version has has all the animals, not just mythical beings, several types of ducks, otters , beavers deer, mice eagle and coyote, who all die trying to obtain earth.

 It is likely there is a connection, albeit so ancient it's tenuous at best , between the canine imagery of the Norse and native Americans.

 

I'm also going out on a limb and saying that the meso American feathered serpent and European dragons have the same origin. Not that these people had contact, but they witnessed the same event, a close pass of a comet, so close that it actually passed through the upper atmosphere. 

And by the way the Mayan cyclic calender has it's origins in observation of long running celestial event, the break up of the taurid progenitor.

 Their ancestors observed the north American impact/air bursts and the subsequent yearly massive meteor falls, and the passes of the larger fragments which coincide with the term of the long count calendar.

a reply to: Floke
Tyr was the original god in Scandinavia, or at least Norway. A multifaceted god and considered the highest, possibly the one and only god.

When the red-haired Germans invaded there was a great war (Aesir-Vanir war by Snorre Sturlusson) and at the end, the principle fortresses were destroyed, peace treaty, there was a prisoner exchange. Most scholars believe it is metaphorical for the uniting of classes (warrior, farmer, etc) and thus a union of gods (fertility gods of the Vanir with war gods of the Aesir).


You can tell that Tyr originally was the highest god (and only later relegated to obscurity) because of his position in the weekdays. They go in order of importance: Sol (sun) day, Mani (moon) day, Tyr's day, Oden's day, Tor's day, Freyr's day, Laugar (wash) day.

a reply to: lostinspace

None will be greater than the great molossus hound. It was the canine of titans. I wish I had a Peritas....



Noble and tempered sentinel, guardian of the empires of ancient days. The scourge of wolves, and the grace of a home.

It is a shame it is now extinct. If any great hound returns or is reborn let it be this noble king of canines.